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Your agreement.... Um... We shredded it!


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My wife just had a very interesting phone call from Welcome Finance.

 

We CCA'd them in mid Dec '07, they defaulted 6th Jan '08. After defaulting they sent through half an agreement, with the T&C's cut off the bottom.

 

Well, today they called to ask about payment. We advised them that they haven't complied with the CCA as the T&C were cut off the bottom.

 

After a lot of coercing, the muppet claimed that they weren't legally required to keep the originals. I think Companies House may disagree.

 

He said, even if we wanted a copy of the full agreement they couldn't do it.

 

He said the process is a follows: The local office send the agreement to the processing office, they scan the "important bits" then SHRED IT!

 

He must be lying. Can they really be that stupid?!

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My wife just had a very interesting phone call from Welcome Finance.

 

We CCA'd them in mid Dec '07, they defaulted 6th Jan '08. After defaulting they sent through half an agreement, with the T&C's cut off the bottom.

 

Well, today they called to ask about payment. We advised them that they haven't complied with the CCA as the T&C were cut off the bottom.

 

After a lot of coercing, the muppet claimed that they weren't legally required to keep the originals. I think Companies House may disagree.

 

He said, even if we wanted a copy of the full agreement they couldn't do it.

 

He said the process is a follows: The local office send the agreement to the processing office, they scan the "important bits" then SHRED IT!

 

He must be lying. Can they really be that stupid?!

 

Ah Ah Ah Ah. It gets better.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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I have a big loan with Welcome , all up to date though, but I wonder if I sent CCA ?

 

ummmmmm just a thought

 

You don't buy a ticket you don't win the lottery.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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He said, even if we wanted a copy of the full agreement they couldn't do it.

 

He said the process is a follows: The local office send the agreement to the processing office, they scan the "important bits" then SHRED IT!

 

He must be lying. Can they really be that stupid?!

 

Keep that vision of piles of £20 notes going through a shredder as you crack open the bubbly!

 

There are probably BILLIONS of pounds worth of so-called assets (credit agreements) to which this has happened. If these all came home to roost (S77/78 requests leading to unenforceable agreements) Northern Rock/Bears Stearn/credit crunch would seem like small change. Scary but an amusing thought nevertheless.

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Yeah, but battling on other fronts at the moment, dont want to many plates spining, but that could be the icing on the cake, or "just the ticket"

ha ha

Please note: I am not a lawyer and as such any advice I give is purely from a laymans point of view;-)

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That is a classic.

 

While a scanned copy may comply for CCA, if this ever went to court you demand to see the original.

 

I'm sorry M'lud we shredded it.

I wonder how quickly that would be struck out !?!?!

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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That is a classic.

 

While a scanned copy may comply for CCA, if this ever went to court you demand to see the original.

 

I'm sorry M'lud we shredded it.

I wonder how quickly that would be struck out !?!?!

How did you do it,i mean 18 creditors given up thats amazing,you must be finding all the loop holes to throw at them,if you are can you let us all know,and also whats the score if like myslef and OH are currently on a dmp paying off our debts,can we send off to all the creditors who have sold or passed our debts on to ask for CCA proof,and does asking for CCA proof put the account into dispute therefore stopping any court action that has been threatened ?

 

sorry gatecrashing your post :roll:

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How did you do it,i mean 18 creditors given up thats amazing,you must be finding all the loop holes to throw at them,if you are can you let us all know,and also whats the score if like myslef and OH are currently on a dmp paying off our debts,can we send off to all the creditors who have sold or passed our debts on to ask for CCA proof,and does asking for CCA proof put the account into dispute therefore stopping any court action that has been threatened ?

 

sorry gatecrashing your post :roll:

 

Yes and yes.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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How did you do it,i mean 18 creditors given up thats amazing,you must be finding all the loop holes to throw at them,if you are can you let us all know

It isn't 18 creditors merely 18 DCA's.

Bear in mind I've had 3 for Cap1 and 4 for B'card ;)

 

and also whats the score if like myslef and OH are currently on a dmp paying off our debts,can we send off to all the creditors who have sold or passed our debts on to ask for CCA proof,and does asking for CCA proof put the account into dispute therefore stopping any court action that has been threatened ?

You should always CCA a DCA to ensure they have the legal right to collect on any debt.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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It isn't 18 creditors merely 18 DCA's.

Bear in mind I've had 3 for Cap1 and 4 for B'card ;)

 

 

You should always CCA a DCA to ensure they have the legal right to collect on any debt.

when we changed dmp companies we sent token payments to them all and the first mistake we made was that we signed them and now we know we should not have done ,hope this wont be a problem now :(

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Following may be of interest:

 

Document Scanning Scotland, Edinburgh, Glasgow, UK - DDSR Digital Document Scanning & Retrieval

 

Good explanation on evidential requirements for microfilm.

 

"If a document is admissible in evidence, then an electronic image of that document may be treated as secondary evidence in the same manner as a photocopy or a microfiche image. It will be subject to the provisions regarding authentication contained in the Civil Evidence Act (1995) in England and Wales and the Civil Evidence Act (Scotland) 1988 in Scotland."

 

Newborn

Beaten:

RBS: £4,500

AMEX: £4,200

Barclaycard Visa: £12,100

Barclaycard M/Card: £12,600

(Including the numerous DCAs they have set on me.)

PPI reclaims (into my bank account): £25,000

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I hope you recorded that. I thought i was seeing things when i sore that.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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That is a classic.

 

While a scanned copy may comply for CCA, if this ever went to court you demand to see the original.

 

I'm sorry M'lud we shredded it.

I wonder how quickly that would be struck out !?!?!

 

Interesting. I've had few that are microfiche or computer scanned.

Very easy to spot, as the dust marks are usually square pixels and round edges of text are jagged. I've written to a few DCA's asking for a true copy, and so far none have complied, so I'm calling their bluff, and if one of them does try court action I'm going to ask to see the genuine document in court as I doubt the validity of the microfich copy they sent me. Also as evidence, a photoshop job of what they sent with Mickey Mouse as the signature and alter a few details to something obviously incorrect, so I can prove to a judge how easy it is to tamper with copies of agreements.

 

If they do produce the genuine article, then it's back to £1 a month token payments. A CCJ is irrelavent to me as my credit rating is screwed anyway. But after the last 12 months, I'll never want credit again. It's just not worth it. Better to save up to buy the things I want.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

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My wife just had a very interesting phone call from Welcome Finance.

 

We CCA'd them in mid Dec '07, they defaulted 6th Jan '08. After defaulting they sent through half an agreement, with the T&C's cut off the bottom.

 

Well, today they called to ask about payment. We advised them that they haven't complied with the CCA as the T&C were cut off the bottom.

 

After a lot of coercing, the muppet claimed that they weren't legally required to keep the originals. I think Companies House may disagree.

 

He said, even if we wanted a copy of the full agreement they couldn't do it.

 

He said the process is a follows: The local office send the agreement to the processing office, they scan the "important bits" then SHRED IT!

 

He must be lying. Can they really be that stupid?!

 

No he's not & he ain't alone

 

The lenders in an attempt to increase profits have over the years introduced business models which have little or no regard for their legal obligations, & why should they they have gotten away with it for years - the courts grant CCJ's at the drop of a hat without ever asking to see proof that the debt exists & few claims are defended.

 

Now however & this is what scares the hell out of them, is consumers have rebelled because of the lenders avarice & are now finding out thanks to site like this that they do have rights & more & more are refusing to be pushed around by these parasites

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I agree that few claims are defended,i was thinking the same today,

I keep referring to 1st credit,because these are the muppets giving us the most greif,and if i never joined this forum and found all the valuable information about CCA before just taking their word for gospel i we would probably have another ccj by now,but thats not going to happen because we intend to fight these leeches no matter what :D

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There are evidential guidelines for the acceptance of electronic, microfiche and microfilm copies. This includes destruction certificates for the originals before they can be used.

 

Newborn

Beaten:

RBS: £4,500

AMEX: £4,200

Barclaycard Visa: £12,100

Barclaycard M/Card: £12,600

(Including the numerous DCAs they have set on me.)

PPI reclaims (into my bank account): £25,000

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So no original agreement and no destruction certificate and they're basically stuffed then?

 

Wonder what the odds are on them finding the destruction

certificate if most of them can't provide a cca?

 

Do you have the guidelines etc, that we can quote to them?

Might add more ammunition we can use against the DCA's.

 

Pass the tin opener. I think we should open another can of worms.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

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Although this is a commercial site, it does give a good overview.

 

Document Scanning Scotland, Edinburgh, Glasgow, UK - DDSR Digital Document Scanning & Retrieval

 

Newborn

  • Haha 1

Beaten:

RBS: £4,500

AMEX: £4,200

Barclaycard Visa: £12,100

Barclaycard M/Card: £12,600

(Including the numerous DCAs they have set on me.)

PPI reclaims (into my bank account): £25,000

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Excellent link Newborn.

It does make me wonder if you used that as evidence in court if the DCA could actually comply with all the guidelines.

Also if a file is stored on cd or dvd, it can still be tampered with. Copy the file off the disk, photoshop it, change the date and time on the computer to the same as the date on the destruction certificate, then save the files on the hard disk and burn onto a cd or dvd.

 

It's still possible to tamper with files on CD or DVD at a later date, even if they have a certificate to show when the disk was made.

 

I think as well as a photoshopped copy of the agreement signed by micky mouse, I could also produce a cd rom with a copy of the agreement on it, and the file creation date as 31st Febuary 1820.

 

Then see how their arguement of it being a scan of the genuine document stands up in court.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

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It's now much the same if you ever have to request a copy of a cashed cheque. I had to do this a couple of years ago as the payee's bank had denied getting the payment. What I got from my bank was a more or less legible scan of the front and back of the cheque I'd written. As it happens it was good enough to see the receiving bank's stamp and prove that they had processed it, but it wasn't by any stretch a high quality reproduction.

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