morteee v BT payment processing fee

[morteee]

ok I took on Natwest and WON

 

I took on Orange and WON

 

I took on DLC and WON

 

now it is BT's turn!

 

here is what I posted in a different thread, this is the beginning of my journey to get this totally unfair charge QUASHED!

 

 

here is a good one for you, my BT account is in CREDIT and therfore I havent sent them a payment for 2 months and guess what they have STILL charged me the 1.50 a month payment processing fee EVEN WHEN THERE WASNT A PAYMENT TO PROCESS!

 

I emailed them and this is what happened

 

my first mail

 

Customer Comments:

I pay by direct bank transfer as I am paid 4 weekly not calendar monthly consequently I am often in credit with my account.

Last billing period I was in enough credit to not pay anything to yourselves so I didn't.

what I am annoyed about is despite the fact that I am 1) online billing and therefore you have no processing costs as to producing a bill and 2) will not pay by Direct debit as you cannot set up one on a 4 weekly basis (I don't see why my personal finances should be dictated by yourselves not being able to take my payments appropriately) I am being charged £1.50 a MONTH for you to process payments

what is even MORE annoying is that despite being in CREDIT this month you have STILL charged me for processing my payment when one wasn't made!

How can you charge for something that hasn't been done!

I expect the £1.50 to be credited BACK to my account "

 

their initial response

 

"

Dear Miss (name incorrect),

Thank you for your e-mail about payment charges.

I am sorry that you have been charged for payment charges.

I would like to inform you that We are not penalising you for not having a bank account. Although we appreciate your early payment, the introduction of a payment processing fee is now a common practice across many organisations as it costs more to collect and process payments by other means than MPP / DD. Please note:

·That our new payment processing fee is one of the lowest in the industry.

· We have also reduced your line rentals by £1.00 per month to off-set the introduction of this fee.

(The majority of our customers now pay by MPP/DD, as they find this a more convenient and easier way to pay).

The introduction of a payment processing fee is now a common practice across many organisations as it costs more to collect and process payments by other means than MPP/DD.

Following are the benefits of paying through direct debit :-

1) Savings of up to £18.00 per year (or £21.00 if you take up e-billing as

well) .

2) Convenience/peace of mind .

3) Avoid late payment charges .

BT greatly appreciates your length of time with us. The introduction of a payment processing fee is now a common practice across many organisations as it costs more to collect and process payments by other means than MPP/DD.

I trust that this email will have helped to provide you with the clarification needed and I hope that it has also demonstrated to you that you concerns have been looked into thoroughly and professionally.

 

I am sorry, however only way to save this charges is to pay by Direct Debit.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours Sincerely,"

 

my response to that!

 

"

Secondly you haven’t addressed my concern here, my complaint isn’t about the charge in general but that you have charged me a payment processing fee when I haven’t made a payment so in effect you are charging me for a service you haven’t provided

Thirdly if you had read my complaint you would have realised that paying by Mpp/DD DOESN’T save me late payment charges as far as my bank is concerned on those months that your payment would fall the day before my payday as I am paid 4 weekly. (This is not un-common, my company employs over 3000 people and is FT100 so there are 3000 people who are paid like this in one small town for starters). Paying by MPP/DD would NOT be convenient for me, it would NOT offer me peace of mind

I would be more than happy to re-set up my MPP/DD if you could take the money 4 weekly instead of calendar monthly

What I would like is an explanation of WHY BT deem it fair practice to take a payment processing fee when there actually hasn’t been a charge made

I am also aware that OFCOM are currently investigating the accusations that customers have made against companies such as yourselves for unfair charges and therefore would like to see why BT think it is fair to take a charge when the service hasn’t been required, not even my bank has the gall to do that!

As for your claims that a lot of companies charge for this I have the dealings with the following

BT

Sky

North West Leicestershire County Council

Atlantic gas and Electricity

O2

Severn Trent Water

Nildram

TV Licensing

Tesco Car and Home insurance

 

And various others

Out of all those companies (of which I am sure you recognise every single

one) your company and sky are the only two who operate these charges. That is hardly a large majority of companies is it.

If your explanation is either not forthcoming (as per this email) or not satisfactory (i.e. proving that the charge of 1.50 per payment is your actual cost and therefore not made up of what is in effect a penalty charge) I shall be adding my voice to those others who are protesting against this.

I look forward to your explanation of

1) Why you are charging me a Payment processing fee when there has been no payment to process

2) Your proof that this is your actual cost per payment processed

 

 

Regards

Miss (name correct!)"

 

their response this time

 

"

Dear Miss (name spelt correctly)

 

Thank you for your e-mail dated 3/3/08 about your telephone account.

.

With regards to your query about the payment processing fees, I apologise for you being addressed by the wrong name. I wish to inform you that you have been charged the payment processing fee in advance like the way your line rental has been charged. The extra fee reflects the costs of collecting non-direct debit payments, as some methods of payment are costly to process. But it's not just about the cost of taking the payments; following up when customers forget to pay on time does involves spending time and money. We believe that given the real difference in costs between payment methods it is fairer that the price that customers pay reflects the costs involved.

By calculating the cost we apply a general policy for all payment methods that are not automated. We calculate the cost by averaging it out across all payment methods other than Direct Debit or Monthly Payment Plan as well as the follow up costs if customers pay late or forget to pay.

The fee is not transaction-based, as this would unfairly disadvantage those who need to pay in several small instalments. Instead the costs are averaged on a monthly/quarterly basis across all customers using non-automated methods of payment. This can only ever be a general policy for all customers based on the cost we as a business incur.

However, payment processing fees for payments other then DD/MPP are common practice across the industry. BT?s is one of the lowest around.

Thus, even when you use online services to pay your bills, you would still be charged the payment processing fees, as it costs BT more to process that payment as compared to Direct Debit, since there are also costs involved from your bank's end when they have to transfer the online payment to BT's account, which inturn they impose on BT.

I understand that you feel otherwise, but I can assure you that BT would not like to impose any incorrect fees on its customers as it would be unfair to them. Moreover, I am sure you are aware that before BT can impose any charges on our customers, we have to take permission from all the regulatory authorities, mainly OFFCOM.

Further, I would like to state that MPP gives you the flexibility to choose any date of the month for your payment to be taken out on. Therefore, you can easily change your payment day according to your preference.

If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours faithfully,"

 

my response to that?

 

I took everything I could AWAY from BT

 

vote with the feet!

 

 

now I have been investigating this and have found the following

 

by talking to both of my banks BOTH of them are not only denying that they charge commercial customers for the reciept of funds but are shocked and disgusted to find that BT are claiming this in fact the manager I spoke to at Halifax was so stunned at BT's claim he has asked for a copy of their email to me and is going to fire it off to his superiors with a view to a complaint being made about BT making this claim!

 

Also both banks are willing to write a letter categorically denying this claim

 

BT made a wrong move when they decided to take me on!

[morteee]

email sent to BT tonight, I await their response eagerly!

 

 

"

Dear sir's

Firstly thank you for your reply and I apologise for my delay in getting back to you but I have been doing some research

I would like to highlight one of the statements made in the below email

"Thus, even when you use online services to pay your bills, you would still be charged the payment processing fees, as it costs BT more to process that payment as compared to Direct Debit, since there are also costs involved from your bank's end when they have to transfer the online payment to BT's account, which inturn they impose on BT."

On seeing this statement I decided to check with both of my banks if this was the case and I have some excellent news for you

Both Halifax and Natwest have confirmed for me verbally, and are more than happy to confirm in writing, that they do NOT charge commercial customers for the receipt of funds via online or telephone banking transfer in fact the managers at both banks were rather shocked to find that you had made this statement and have requested a copy of your email so they can decide exactly which authority to make a complaint to as you are obviously making spurious claims as to their banking practice (I am assured they take this rather seriously)

I shall be taking a copy of your email to them within the next 14 days so they can best decide how to proceed.

Onto my next point

" The fee is not transaction-based, as this would unfairly disadvantage those who need to pay in several small instalments. Instead the costs are averaged on a monthly/quarterly basis across all customers using non-automated methods of payment. This can only ever be a general policy for all customers based on the cost we as a business incur."

Whilst I find it admirable that you feel you are protecting those customers that can only pay in small instalments I am disgusted that you are prepared to penalise your customers who chose to pay in a large lump sum, on time and in fact as in my case IN ADVANCE on the actions of a different type of customer.

"But it's not just about the cost of taking the payments; following up when customers forget to pay on time does involves spending time and money. We believe that given the real difference in costs between payment methods it is fairer that the price that customers pay reflects the costs involved."

Taking the charge in advance due to your assumption that a customer is not going to pay in a timely fashion is downright discourteous. By imposing this charge on a customer who doesn’t pay you late, doesn’t fail to pay you at all and doesn’t incur you extra cost by paying via online banking (see my statement about what 2 major high street banks have stated) makes this a penalty charge unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations.

I require that you cease imposing this charge on myself and refund those charges you have already levied on my account within the next 21 days or I will be forced to consider taking this to not only ofcom but potentially the county court system

Regards

 

"

[fbnts]

Just Subbing

[Rooster-UK]

I wish you luck, but have a look at this.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-media/136578-bt-customer-loses-case.html

 

Regards, Rooster.

[buzby]

One wonders how good this publicity-seeking solicitor actually was in presenting her case. I can only go by the reports I've seen, but the Judge appeared to agree that providing BT advertised that the charge would apply, they could insist their customer paid it.

 

No mention of;

 

OFCOM preparing a response to the practice that (for the present tone) seems to put these firms at a serious disadvantage. That BT put forward no financial breakdown to prove what the different costs were for each payment method. Since it costs BT no more to recieve a BACS payment from a home banking customer, why would they be expected to pay the same as someone who used their credit card? Finally, and most importantly, a customer is expected to pay for the services they use. When did the law change to allow customers to be charged additional amounts based on their payment methods . If a firm chooses to offer a particular method, then the cost of doing business that way comes from THEIR take, not as an additional charge to the consumer.

 

But best of all, no mention of the Irish Republic outlawing such practices. You can be sure BT will use this case as a precedent - which of course it isn't. Hopefully it is a false dawn for them, and a better-prepared pursuer capable of bringing them to book.

[morteee]

well I have had a reply and believe me I am falling off my chair laughing!

 

here we go

 

Dear Miss Morteee,

Thank you for your e-mail dated 28/3/08 about Bills & payments.

I am sorry it took so long to get back to you and the inconvenience caused thereof.

In response to your query I would like to convey that BT take all customer complaints seriously. The extra fee reflects the costs of collecting non-direct debit payments. We believe that given the real difference in costs between payment methods it is fairer that the price that customers pay reflects the costs involved. We calculate the cost by averaging it out across all payment methods that are not automated, ie: other than Direct Debit or Monthly Payment Plan as well as the follow up costs if customers pay late or forget to pay. Therefore, we have decided to introduce a general policy for all payments that are not automated. BT will not be changing its policy.

If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail. You can also get in touch with our support staff at 0800443311.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours Sincerely,"

yes the addressed it to Miss Morteee!!!!!!!!!

MY RESPONSE

"

Once again my complaint appears to have been dealt with by someone who hasn’t actually read my email!

My name is NOT Miss Morteee is it Miss "real name"!

Secondly I am asking HOW this cost is incurred to BT!

So far I have been told that it is due to a cost that the banks charge yourself which is untrue

I have also been told that it is also calculated to include the cost of chasing late payments, which you charge for separately anyway

I have also been told you charge for it in advance therefore assuming I am not going to pay by an alternative method which is extremely presumptive of you!

Now for the last time before I complain once again to OFCOM

HOW is this charge calculated, exactly WHAT cost is incurred by yourselves!

Regards

Miss "real name"

by the way I have found a way to get round this charge, I shall post it in another thread muhahahahahaha

[chemicalbeavis]

Good luck with this, i fought with BT to get some answers re, how it is calculated to no avail. Voted with my feet in the end.

[morteee]

ok have had another email from them, here it is

 

"

Thank you for your e-mail dated 1/4/08 regarding payment processing charges.

I am sorry it took so long to get back to you.

I would like to confirm our discussion today and hope that I provided you with most of the information that you requested.

I wish to inform you that on the 28th of February 2008 Ofcom published their report as a result of a recent ?Additional Charges Consultation? review.

The report states that it is fair and reasonable for there to be price differentials between customers paying by direct debit and those who don't, as long as it is prominently communicated to our customers, which we currently do. BT has always been transparent in our charging and will continue to maintain a differential because it costs more to process non-direct debit payments.

Many other telecom companies charge customers an administration charge if they do not pay by Direct Debit and some only accept customers who agree to pay by Direct Debit. BT's charge is amongst the lowest in the industry. In addition, BT's policy on ways to pay is generally accepted as the most customer-friendly in the telecoms business.

If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours sincerely, "

 

however in the phone call I got a bit of a result!

 

the manager who I spoke with (they rang me) was actually very helpful!

 

He has given me an address to write to for the breakdown of the costs and has also (now dont pass out people) REFUNDED ALL THE CHAGES I INCURRED!!!!!

 

now this isnt a huge amount but it is the principle, my stance is that if a customer hasnt made a payment due to the account being in credit they shouldnt be charged the payment processing fee.

 

I am going to see the banks again next week to discuss once again the comments BT have made about the banks alleged charged for BT's reciept of funds as the BT manager I spoke to admitted that this statement was part of a BT written script and therefore it was company policy to inform customers of this

 

I have accepted the return of the charges as a sign of goodwill on BT's part but have informed them that I will continue to persue this

 

 

[chemicalbeavis]

nice work

[morteee]

ok have had my letter refunding those charges lol

 

all 4.50 of it!

 

am still awaiting the information I requested which is twofold

 

firstly the laws they are using to entitle them to charge for the payment processing fee and secondly the breakdown of costs that their charge is based on

 

going to be generous here and give them 21 days to provide the information before I start hitting them with legal requests!

[Son of Shoestring]

Good luck.

 

Have to admit that I gave up banging my head against a wall with BT and have now finally voted with my feet. Not just telephone usage but line rental... the whole nine yards.

 

I will never return to BT until it returns to a company that has some moral/ethical dimension returned to it. At least that Dutch wonker, Verwayeen, has been booted out of the CEO's office and is headed back to the US to indulge in his venture capitalist greediness.

[Enron]

Did a bit of groundwork into this previously, but never went through with it.

 

Business customers don't get charged it, and my local post office manager gets paid 7p per BT bill that he processes through a bank giro credit - so I can't imagine the overall cost to BT being anything more than 50p for taking a payment other than by direct debit.

[meagain]

A report by the British Retail Consortium demonstrates that the average cost to a large business of processing a cash payment is 4p, and that even making a credit card payment of £20 costs 17p. Clicky

[Anti BT]

Thank you. A very useful thread.

 

I have just gotten off the phone with BT about this charge which rankles with me. They would not even take my complaint seriously and decided that the only thing they would do was "put a note on my account." When I asked to speak to a supervisor it took 20 minutes for a muppet with a stuck record message to be produced. She then cut me off because I asked to speak to her supervisor since she didn't seem to be understanding my complaint.

 

Eventually, on my second call they produced a muppet who claimed to be a Customer Services Manager but wouldn't listen and would not apologize for their behaviour in cutting me off!

 

So.. no joy so far but revenge is a dish best eaten cold! I intend to inform all my contacts - and people I don't know- that BT is a terrible organisation which does not look after its customers but exploits them outrageously. And at the earliest opportunity I shall move all MY business to a different supplier.

 

I URGE EVERYONE else to do the same and put these arrogant robbers out of business.

[morteee]

keep pushing it - thats what I did

 

or set a DD up and pay in advance so they can never call on it that way they CANT charge you the fee but still incurr theirs costs for whatever payment processing there is