Kitchen Fiasco

[fed_up_uk]

I don't supose they are affiliated to an association like KSA - Kitchen Specialists Association?

 

 

They're a member of Fira i think that's what it is. But they wouldn't get involved until after 28 days had passed and we couldn't wait that long to have things resolved.

[fed_up_uk]

Does anyone know how long after a company doesn't collect their goods we can legally sell it? Or charge storage?

[Bookworm]

No, and if you find out, post it here, I may be in the same kind of situation pretty soon.

[fed_up_uk]

I found out...spoke to consumer direct and they've said that there is no "definate time" as to how long we have to keep the goods for. Also, if the goods aren't in satisfactory condition when returned we could end up paying!!!

 

This is ridiculous, we have no kitchen, no spare room and stuff in our bedroom but the kitchen company can take "as long as they like"

 

What's up bookworm?

[Bookworm]

Not a kitchen, thankfully!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/132643-norfolk-greenhouses-anyone-knows.html

 

I phoned grattan yesterday and they passed over to be collected on March 3rd, still not heard a dickybird, and it's starting to wind me up.

 

As for TS and not in satisfactory condition, just make sure you photograph the unopened and undamaged boxes from all angles, and that should cover your back.

[1stlifeline]

I know its not the ideal but in your situation I think I may be calling at the showroom quite a lot and complaining quite loudly whilst other prospective customers are browsing.

[fed_up_uk]

They don't have a showroom lifeline.

[fed_up_uk]

Update - Had a "Without Predjudice" letter yesterday from the Kitchen Company who have adivised they will cancel the agreement, collect the kitchen and return the deposit. There will be no compensation but in relation to customers services they will offer a sum of £200.

[Guest wino]

So that would leave you an empty room then? No kitchen?

How do they expect you to cook and feed yourself? £200 won't last long eating in restaraunts every night?

My heart really goes out to you having to put up with all this.

[fed_up_uk]

Thanks Wino, it's not as bad as that in terms of a gutted room, the doors and drawers are removed as are the wall units etc. The tiles had been removed previously so all the wires are exposed. It "technically" works but without the necessary storage we have been storing most of the kitchen in our bedroom since Feb 28th. Also, we've been without a spare room since Feb 20th because their kitchen and appliances mean we can't get in there.

This works out to be a gesture of £4.70 a day, when you consider the time off work, inconvinience and stress this has caused it's a paltry sum really. The sum I submitted for consequential damages was simply to cover time off work. I didn't even factor into the price of disposing of what they removed, postage costs for everything being sent recorded delivery and a price for second hand units to put it back in to some sort of state it was originally in. More importantly, I requested that everything be cancelled and the deposit returned etc on the very morning the problem was made apparent and I was told "we don't do that". So they've dragged their heels for 6 weeks now and can only offer what I originally requested. They should've taken that way out back then without wasting anymore of my time.

[Guest wino]

I would still go ahead and report this to the KSA. It has been a joke (not a very funny one) since the first 'designer' set foot through your front door.

[fed_up_uk]

Exactly, nevermind the fact that it was the 2nd designer visit that was the problem...the first designer never even showed up!!!

[fed_up_uk]

If the companies letter is titled "Without Prejudice" does that mean I cannot mention the offer in subsequent letters back?

[Bookworm]

No, it means that you can't show it to the judge in court. (or you might, but only by asking the judge beforehand if he would allow you to, and they usually don't).

 

Privileged, Without Prejudice, and Without Prejudice Save As to Costs documents. - Alway Associates for a more detailed explanation.

[fed_up_uk]

OK, so in the case of the letter from them being titled "Without Prejudice" and then mentioning a "gesture of goodwill" figure, which we are declining. My subsequent letter mentions this offer but my letter can be used in court surely?

[Bookworm]

Strictly speaking, as it is part of the privileged correspondence, no, but it would depend on whether their offer was a genuine attempt at settlement. If it came to that, you could always ask the judge whether he would allow you to refer to that correspondence if that became part of the argument, but I wouldn't let it worry you too much at this stage.

[Chesterexpress]

To be perfectly honest, why don't you accept their offer and get it over and done with. You may achieve a little more if you take it through the courts, but then again you may actually end up worse off and have had all the extra stress etc. In my opinion it just isn't worth it.

[fed_up_uk]

To be perfectly honest, why don't you accept their offer and get it over and done with. You may achieve a little more if you take it through the courts, but then again you may actually end up worse off and have had all the extra stress etc. In my opinion it just isn't worth it.

 

That may well be but the offer doesn't by any way make amends for the cost already to ourselves and that doesn't include inconvinience. We would need to purchase a considerable amount of goods, just to get us "back to how we were" before our kitchen was butchered, nevermind the cost to myself of disposing of the kitchen parts they did remove. The "offer" is such a small amount in comparison it's actually insulting, this is all their fault and if the company had acted professionally and provided the service their literature and advertising campaign promises it wouldn't be an issue. What I have a problem with is big companies thinking they can do what they want to who they want and then offer a gesture to make it "all go away"

[gyzmo]

I completely agree. I do not see why a court would not allow costs and damages in this case. If they had made their offer along with some recompense then I would have agreed with Chester. But they are behaving disgracefuly. They should be treated as such.

[fed_up_uk]

Thanks Gyzmo, it's encouraging to hear that. I know it's easy to say take the offer but that £200 wouldn't even cover the cost of getting someone in to "put back" the kitchen to the same state never mind buying the materials. A letter has gone off telling them we do not accept and that we will attempt to re-coup our loses via the county courts.

 

If the original designer and subsequent surveyor had carried out their jobs to the professional standard the company "claim" to provide, we would not be in this situation. As such, companies like this cannot continue to do work without any risk to themselves and leaving the customer to carry all costs.

[Bookworm]

It might be a good idea to get someone in to give you a quote for putting the kitchen back to the state it was in, nothing more, nothing less, as ammunition.

[fed_up_uk]

yeah, we're working on that now Bookworm

[1stlifeline]

I know from when I used to deal with kitchens and compensation no one was really taken seriously if the letter they sent just said something along the lines of 'I want compensation' What you need to do is state exactly how much you expect and break it down. i.e- so much for phone calls, petrol, lost earnings, meals out (if you had to eat out be realistic, dont claim you had to eat 5 star but dont underestimate either), the cost of refitting and buying materials needs to be considered carefully because they will turn round and say you would be paying for this anyway if you go ahead with a new kitchen, however if you simply want to put back what you had then you are entitled to claim for that.

Our company always took the compensation issue a lot more seriously if the customer stated exactly what they were claiming for and how much it was going to cost.

Compensation for inconvenience is a very loose term and makes it very easy for a company to think that if they throw you peanuts you will go away. Dont forget that a lot of people will claim compensation even if there is not really anything to justify it so these companies are used to getting lots of letters and will tryt to fob you off at first before they escalate the claim to someone higher. Be ready to support your claim with as much proof as you can, I lost count of the number of letters I had where they had lost a days earnings and to be honest if they were earning the amount they claimed to have lost they would not have been buying a kitchen from @ --- @. It was also quite often the case that they had a party or function that weekend and ALL the relatives were disgusted that they had 3 handles missing. Another favourite was that they had friends staying and had to eat out all weekend so the claims would be for ludicrous restaurant bills.

Keep your letter consice and tell them how much you expect to be recompensed.

Good luck.

[fed_up_uk]

Thanks lifeline, we have been pretty precise and will be on our submission for the courts. We haven't requested anything in terms of "compensation" because we believe that even though there is a huge amount of inconvinience involved it's impossible to put a price on it. What we are looking for in "consequential damages" are the following;

 

Loss of earnings - primarily due to the fact that they would not cancel everything when the issue was first noted even though there was nothing that could be done. They insisted they kept sending surveyors and visitors which resulted in time off for myself and was a fruitless excercise. When I kept protesting "I can't keep taking time off" It was always met with the response "We're trying to resolve this and you need to assist us"

Postage Costs - Everything has been sent recorded and this soon mounts up.

Replacement parts - Purchasing second hand items to put the kitchen "back to a similar state" is not an unreasonable request but then it shouldn't be brand new either.

Fitting costs - The cost of a tradesman to carry out this work and repair the damage done.

Disposal costs - I was left with the disposal of all the materials already removed.

 

Regardless of if we're are going to proceed and have a new kitchen fitted, this company must make ammends to put us back in the situation we were originally in. It cannot be assumed that we are going to have another company immeadiately fit a replacement as too be honest, this whole event has made us think twice about the whole thing.

 

That said, and I can't stress this enough, they need to take responsibility for the fact people in their employment are not capable of carrying out the work as described in their contracts. This company cannot be allowed to "do what they want" without due care to someone elses property and assume they can walk away without risk and offering a meagre gesture.

[Bookworm]

Postage Costs - Everything has been sent recorded and this soon mounts up.

You can try, and you might get it, but strictly speaking, you're not entitled to those, it is your choice to send recorded. You could have sent with a free certificate of posting, which would be sufficient to prove that you had sent those letters, and therefore you chose to incur the extra expense of sending recorded.

 

Just thought I'd mention it in case they quibble on that. ;-)