Inside a DCA!

[fuzzybobble]

Whilst I'm not claiming it was due to me & my threat of litigation, I have heard that the CRA's are or have already introduced a new code of practice whereby their clients will have, if required, to provide evidence that the data is accurate.

 

In fact I think they have recently been reminding clients that it is their duty to ensure the data is correct failing which they could be sued by the subject & have their CCL called into question

 

Just a shame that codes of practice are made to be broken.

I think we should put it to the test and insist that defaults

where there is no CCA produced should be removed by the CRA's.

Last time I tried I got back the bog standard "The dca say the information

is correct, so it must be true, and it's staying on your file." Type of letter.

 

When you realise that the CRA's also own a few DCA's and it's getting obvious to many on here, that they do share data and work together for their own benefit (deffo not for the people)

Lots of people have sent off their £2 to a CRA for a copy of their credit file, only to get a DCA contact them a few weeks later for a long forgotten about debt. It happens far too often to be a pure coincidence.

[Newborn]

If a request is made by the CRA to confirm the accuracy of data held by a DCA surely that is 'processing data'. So when the CRA sends the E-Mail to the DCA to confirm the accuracy of the information on a disputed debt, they are actually asking the DCA to break the law and aiding them to do it.

Surely the only thing the CRA can ask for is PROOF that the account is NOT in dispute.

Then you can SAR the DCA and ask to see that proof. If all that turns up is an E-Mail confirming that they have continued to process your data, then a complaint is in order IMHO.

 

Newborn

[nicklea]

Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear.

 

"Any Creditor or DCA that have agreed to the terms of CAIS by signing up to the information sharing scheme"

 

So, back to basics, Who or what EXACTLY is CAIS? I believe it is a scheme which banks, finance companies, Companies giving credit out generally, some 400 of them can sign up to to obtain certain information and share information about potential customers credit histories.

 

Who set it up?

 

Is it tied to any legislation or regulatory body?

 

Who runs it?

 

Hi,

CAIS is simply the name of the very big database that Experian has (it stands for Credit Account Information Sharing). The other CRAs have their own version but Experian’s is the biggest and most widely referred to. There is also Equifax and Callcredit who have their own databases.

This contains just about everything you do with any credit related product that you hold (however, having said that, there is usually only default data for bank current accounts). Since it is only connected with credit, then it doesn’t hold details of any savings accounts etc

It is divided into positive data and negative data (it used to be called white data and black data but that’s not considered pc any more!). So, for example, it holds all your monthly credit card balances, how much you pay off every month etc. On the negative side it shows any defaults or late payments etc.

Now the body that decides how this gets used is called SCOR, the Standing Committee on Reciprocity (insert any old joke you like here about them not having enough chairs). Reciprocity is just a posh word for sharing and it basically works on the I’ll show you mine if you show me your’s principle.

However, SCOR is very inward looking, it is definitely a members only club and they are just concerned to look after themselves. That isn’t to say that there isn’t a lot of politics and back biting going on between the different members about how the data is used.

Hope this helps.

nicklea

[andrew1]

So, just like the CRA's themselves they are a system they project themselves to all outsiders as some kind of authorititive system set up as a kind of 'legal requirement' so everyone thinks it's an official system or body, just like the post above I quoted, that's the way it comes across, but in fact it's just another boys club system set up to benefit the Credit Industry and the Vultures who feed off it..nice one.

 

The trouble is that the Customer Services teams who we complain to all start quoting these things as "well that's the law so you have to put up with it attitude" as they do about CRA's. When is the Credit Industry going to begin to start doing things legally and properly?

[JonCris]

Just a shame that codes of practice are made to be broken.

I think we should put it to the test and insist that defaults

where there is no CCA produced should be removed by the CRA's.

Last time I tried I got back the bog standard "The dca say the information

is correct, so it must be true, and it's staying on your file." Type of letter.

 

When you realise that the CRA's also own a few DCA's and it's getting obvious to many on here, that they do share data and work together for their own benefit (deffo not for the people)

Lots of people have sent off their £2 to a CRA for a copy of their credit file, only to get a DCA contact them a few weeks later for a long forgotten about debt. It happens far too often to be a pure coincidence.

 

 

I agree. You know one of the scams the CRA's are pulling at the moment particularly as consumers are more afraid of ID theft than ever before.

 

They are offering reduced or even free credit reports to consumers on the pretext it's for the consumers sole benefit.

 

Whilst that might be true upto a point what they are also doing is building an even bigger data base of peoples personal details. They are even 'finding' debtors who for one reason or another have fallen of their radar thereby allowing the DCA's to restart their pursuit of consumers

[JonCris]

So the moral of my 407 post is - only apply for your credit file if you have nothing to fear from the past which might come back & bite you now

[fuzzybobble]

My girlfriend recently sent for a copy of her credit file.

Within a month she was contacted by Westcot for an old

Freemans catalogue account. and a few days later by

Buchannon Clarke and Wells for an outstanding balance

from an outstanding gas from about 3 years ago.

 

Bog off letters sent by return post and all is now

peaceful again.

[JonCris]

Of course she did & it's a trick which many consumers are falling for.

 

I should SAR them & you find, as you should, that the CRA has recorded & passed your details without consent then you can either report them to the ICO or sue them or both - I would do both

[car2403]

I'm fully aware of what he means.

 

I'm saying that just because they signed a BtoB contract with their mates still doesn't make it lawful to transmit personal data.

 

For it to be lawful the subject has to agree otherwise it ain't - & if was it would make a complete mockery of the Data Protection Act which is precisely what they are trying to do now under the guise of 'sharing' info to 'help' the consumer manage their finances by refusing them credit

 

The CRA's have over the years tried to claim the mantle of some sort of agency with statutory powers allowing them (in their eyes) to disregard the rights of the consumer when in fact they are as much subject to the law as any other private company

 

The Data Protection Act allows processing for a lawful, (first principle) legitimate (second principle) reason without the consent of the data subject.

 

These CRA's claim they have a lawful right to process under the contract they have with their clients and a legitimate right to do so as they are providing a "credit reference" which is used by the credit industry to assess risks.

 

Personally, I think this argument stands up - but it does fail when they answer queries raised by data subjects about the accuracy of that data held by them with "out client has checked and confirmed the accuracy of the data, so we are satisfied that it is indeed accurate". If they intend to defend a claim and show they haven't committed an offence under s.159(6) CCA, (should they be ordered to remove the data) and meet their obligations under the DPA, they do have a long way to go, IMHO.

[Newborn]

Could you defeat them by only applying by post and enclosing a letter stating that you are only applying for a copy of the data they hold on you, and that you withdraw/withhold your permission for them to share your data with any other data controller?

 

Newborn

[onthebrink]

Sorry brink but I have to take you task on this.

 

The CRA's can sign all the agreements they like but if the data subject is not involved then any such agreement is open to challenge in the courts

 

Also the CRA's seem to have adopted an arrogant attitude that they are some sort of statutory body - they are not - they are private companies subject, like the rrest of us, to all the laws of the land

 

I think you read my original post incorrectly. I was not taliking about 'lawful' in the way that you thought.

 

What I said was accurate when you read it in the context that this does not refer to YOU, but to the CRAs/DCA/OC:

 

Any Creditor or DCA that have agreed to the terms of CAIS by signing up to the information sharing scheme have a duty to provide the CRA with any information that '...would be of benefit to other CAIS members in determining credit facilities'.

 

I have highlighted a key point there.

 

I was talking from a CRA/DCA/OC point of view. The CRAs (all three of them) have contractual agreements with each other, so as someone said it is very much an old boys network.

 

I'm going to have to state a fact that may offend a few of you but it does need to be said. The CRA/DCA/OCs do not give a t*ss about the 'consumer', the 'debtor' or the 'borrower', they agree to sign up to an information sharing scheme to help each other by highlighting 'risk' clients or customers. And to be honest, their attitude is not to rectify 'an error' it is to keep to their 'lawful' contract agreement within this network to ensure that they reduce their own risk by gaining information from other companies.

 

I'm not saying it's fair, or right, and I'm not saying it is 'legal' in a court of law (i.e you could challenge them with case or statutory law for example), but it is a reality.

[PriorityOne]

So the moral of my 407 post is - only apply for your credit file if you have nothing to fear from the past which might come back & bite you now

 

Or.... leave the "offending" address off the application altogether....

[Jaws75]

Or.... leave the "offending" address off the application altogether....

So i take it that it's not a good idea to request a credit file if you think you've fallen of the DCA's radar??? This driving is me nuts!

[JonCris]

I think you read my original post incorrectly. I was not taliking about 'lawful' in the way that you thought.

 

What I said was accurate when you read it in the context that this does not refer to YOU, but to the CRAs/DCA/OC:

 

Any Creditor or DCA that have agreed to the terms of CAIS by signing up to the information sharing scheme have a duty to provide the CRA with any information that '...would be of benefit to other CAIS members in determining credit facilities'.

 

I have highlighted a key point there.

 

I was talking from a CRA/DCA/OC point of view. The CRAs (all three of them) have contractual agreements with each other, so as someone said it is very much an old boys network.

 

I'm going to have to state a fact that may offend a few of you but it does need to be said. The CRA/DCA/OCs do not give a t*ss about the 'consumer', the 'debtor' or the 'borrower', they agree to sign up to an information sharing scheme to help each other by highlighting 'risk' clients or customers. And to be honest, their attitude is not to rectify 'an error' it is to keep to their 'lawful' contract agreement within this network to ensure that they reduce their own risk by gaining information from other companies.

 

I'm not saying it's fair, or right, and I'm not saying it is 'legal' in a court of law (i.e you could challenge them with case or statutory law for example), but it is a reality.

 

 

I understand what your stating brink but what I'm saying is that ALL parties to any contract must be consenting parties each of whom should have an input into the terms of the contract otherwise it can be challenged under Common law

[PriorityOne]

So i take it that it's not a good idea to request a credit file if you think you've fallen of the DCA's radar??? This driving is me nuts!

 

If you lived at an address where you know you defaulted some years ago, it would be prudent to leave it off your application. If the credit report then arrives with no reference to this address.... you should be ok.

 

I know of someone who did this and although 2 postcards were received a couple of years later from DCAs, they were ignored without any problems whatsoever.... and the credit file was gradually rebuilt from the "healthy" address.

 

If you've always lived at the same address however, then you'll probably find yourself back on the DCA radar, same as you would by making a normal application for credit anyway.

[JonCris]

PO the problem is that the CRA's are now not linking debtors through their defaulted address at 1st but by their DOB & other similar unchanging details which then traces them back through the Electoral Roll & once the system recognises a 'suspect' they are entered on their data base as being a delinquent debtor at their new address.

 

This may also explain why there seems to have been an increase in DCA's chasing the wrong person at the wrong address & also why there are more cases of time barred debts being pursued

[master woody]

I have a couple of questions for Onthebrink et al..

1. Why don’t DCA More often go for bankruptcy? If you look through the forums it seems quite rare. Surly if a person say with a 10 K debt has 30 K equity in the house if the DCA went for bankruptcy they would get all the money straight away (ish). That seems much better bet for the DCA then a charging order ( which seems to be the flavour of the day)

2. During litigation ie if the DCA has entered a money claim against you, when is the best time to offer a full and final settlement. I’ve just entered my Q&As and as of yet no CCA has been produced by the DCA. I’m thinking of offering 10%, what do think my chances are? or should i wait until just before the court date?

[PriorityOne]

PO the problem is that the CRA's are now not linking debtors through their defaulted address at 1st but by their DOB & other similar unchanging details which then traces them back through the Electoral Roll & once the system recognises a 'suspect' they are entered on their data base as being a delinquent debtor at their new address.

 

This may also explain why there seems to have been an increase in DCA's chasing the wrong person at the wrong address & also why there are more cases of time barred debts being pursued

 

Yes... hence the phishing postcards/phone calls as well....

[JonCris]

Yeah I know the type

 

1st it's polite but after a number of attempts with no response they start to threaten with terms such as "we know your there so no point in hiding" or the usual "if you don't contact us we will send our 'enforcement officer' to your home on such & such a day at such & such a time" etc etc etc

[Jaws75]

PO..I'm hearing ya , thanks, so the more addresses you have lived at before the s*** hit the fan proper...then the better? for i.e, i have lived at 4 addresses during the last 10yrs. the last address is the problem...but others are dandy. thats not even including my parents, but as it goes i have received a couple of bank letters at my parents house...haven't lived there since 1994. Is this going to be an issue?:o

[PriorityOne]

PO..I'm hearing ya , thanks, so the more addresses you have lived at before the s*** hit the fan proper...then the better? for i.e, i have lived at 4 addresses during the last 10yrs. the last address is the problem...but others are dandy. thats not even including my parents, but as it goes i have received a couple of bank letters at my parents house...haven't lived there since 1994. Is this going to be an issue?:o

 

If you haven't made any payments/acknowledgements of debts since 1994, then these should be statute-barred anyway.

 

Re. other addresses... if you can "lose" this one dodgy address, then you might be ok... but will probably still get phishing letters urging you to get in touch "urgently" and so on.... You can ignore those.

 

As you are only requesting a copy of your credit file from CRAs and not completing a legal document, then there are no problems with this IMO. If letters are going to your parents house now, then they obviously don't have any real clue where you are... unless you inadvertently tip them off. It depends on how badly you want a copy of your credit file, to be honest. If you don't need it right at the moment, then leave well alone.

[Jaws75]

sorry to confuse, my problem address is the 2001-present, but i left that couple of years ago without letting anyone know...& became homeless as a result, now i'm in hiding. also i'd say i made some acknowledgment 2 years ago. Bugger, i have to leave now, but will see replies late tonight,

Thanks for your help PO:)

[The GodMother]

Just a question.

 

Why do DCAs sent you a letter saying we are taking u to court in 7 days unless you make immediate payment when this is there first contact?

 

I have just recieved on of these letters for a debt that is at a address that does not and never existed due to there not being enought numbers on the street i live on, there were 50 houses and they say it is for number 1,312.

 

This debt also dates back to 2000 to 2001 and it is defently SB. they are also claiming it belongs to a company that we had no contact with at the time. They are claiming for Npower and gas and we only had txu electric as there was electric at the property and we were not allowed to change suppliers as it was in our tenancy.

[stardust_john]

I got free credit report with experian and received dated letter for following day from dca to do with activ kapital. I had no clue what they were about and they seemed to know my dob and details I dont give out lightly. I did become suspicious that maybe the same details I had popped into experian had caused the letter, as this oc had apparantly been in contact last in late 90's They though were fishing for was it me at previous address, which was me and everything was dealt with via financial advice at time, so I knew statute barred if anything did once exist at all.

 

I just find the coincidence very alarming:mad: so is experian linked to aktiv kapital, ps report was clear.

[PriorityOne]

sorry to confuse, my problem address is the 2001-present, but i left that couple of years ago without letting anyone know...& became homeless as a result, now i'm in hiding. also i'd say i made some acknowledgment 2 years ago. Bugger, i have to leave now, but will see replies late tonight,

Thanks for your help PO:)

 

It's not worth living your life in fear... neither is it worth anticipating a potential problem before you've got one IMO.

 

However, if you start seeing the CRAs as one large Head Office for debt collectors, so to speak.... then if/when you decide to apply for new credit at some point in time.... you will also be tipping them off to your whereabouts by stating previous addresses on that application, regardless of whether you go ahead and apply for your credit file now.

 

They can also access DVLA records. Not sure how legal it is for them to do it, but had first hand experience of that one myself some years ago.