Rockwell Debt demand - help please

[Chickenlicken99]

Hello all,

I have started a new thread as I need some advice re a demand from Rockwell Debt collection agency.

The basic story is that OH has taken out a credit card in 1981, paid some of it up till 2005 and then after moving house etc 'forgotten' or 'ignored' paying it. I knew nothing of this until Nov 2007 when a letter arrived demanding payment by return for the sum of just over £5000. I was convinced that this was a [problem] letter until OH returned home..

His face said it all and amid heated exchanged the story finally emerged.

Anyway, I found your site, read up, spoke to consumer direct or someone who advised sending a letter RC to Rockwell, disputing the agreement and asking for a copy of the signed credit agreement and enclosed a PO for £1. I was also advised to state that if I hadnt heard from them within 28 days I would consider the matter closed.

Sent it, waited. Got an acknowledgment letter a week later, and waited.

Nothng.

Thought all fine - back to normal life - until

letter arrived from Rockwell on 6 March stating that although they are unable to produce a signed agreement, they enclose copies of the account statements (which show payments made in Nov 2005).

They want the total outstanding amount by return.

Spoke to Trading standards who said that they could not enforce without a court order because there is no signed agreement, but that they might have enough evidence in the statements and record of payment to prove he owed the money.

This has confused me as it appears to be different from what I read on this site.

I dont know what to do now.

TS advised calling CLS debtline and arranging a payment plan.

The house is in my name and OH only asset is his car.

Im really concerned. Can anyone help? Should I go and see a lawyer?

[Chickenlicken99]

After reading further on this site, I now wonder if Rockwell are being naughty because they hadnt replied to me within the 28 day period. (It took them from mid Nov till early March to send letter stating they dont have a signed agreement).

Oh, what do I do?

[Curlyben]

No CCA = No Enforceable debt.

While Rockcakes can demand payment that is all they can co.

Court action is NOT possible and as such these letters can be filed under ignore.

 

Considering the amount of time that has passed since you CCA request they are in hot water as they are chasing an unsubstantiated debt.

This should be reported to TS for action. Best to speak to a DCA officer as others can be "confused" with the requirements of CCA.

[Chickenlicken99]

Thanks Curly Ben

I had thought they were maybe fishing as the letter they sent was sent second class and not RC. Surely if they had meant business it would have been RC.

What do we do now? Ive been advised NOT to ignore the letter, but to send something back stating that they dont have a signed agreement and they are outside the statutory reply period.

What do you, or anyone else recommend?

My sister in law who was in debt recovery sais the bank has sold on the debt to R for a small price and they will try all the debts to see if someone is a sucker. She says they ® cant take everyone to court.

Im a little afraid to do nothing.

 

The TS seemed to be a little doubtful - they didnt say anything re the 28 day reply period, although i mentioned it twice. Dosnt inspire confidence...

What do we do now?

[pmhcfc]

Thanks Curly Ben

I had thought they were maybe fishing as the letter they sent was sent second class and not RC. Surely if they had meant business it would have been RC.

What do we do now? Ive been advised NOT to ignore the letter, but to send something back stating that they dont have a signed agreement and they are outside the statutory reply period.

What do you, or anyone else recommend?

My sister in law who was in debt recovery sais the bank has sold on the debt to R for a small price and they will try all the debts to see if someone is a sucker. She says they ® cant take everyone to court.

Im a little afraid to do nothing.

 

The TS seemed to be a little doubtful - they didnt say anything re the 28 day reply period, although i mentioned it twice. Dosnt inspire confidence...

What do we do now?

 

bump

[Chickenlicken99]

What does 'bump' mean?

Ive seen it a lot on the forums here.

Is it an IT term, or is this you suggesting that I do something? Please explain 'bump'

[Chickenlicken99]

Got it! Bring up my posting!

Sorry not very IT literate.

[citizenB]

What does 'bump' mean?

Ive seen it a lot on the forums here.

Is it an IT term, or is this you suggesting that I do something? Please explain 'bump'

 

 

People read your thread and recognise they are unable to help you so they just type in 'BUMP' to move your thread back to the top of the list so that someone with more experience will notice your thread and reply

[Chickenlicken99]

Please can someone tell me if I need to reply to the letter?

We have only one wage coming in and 2 kids and cant pay this.

Please advise me how to answer the letter from rockwell

[citizenB]

Chickenlikken.. who did you send the original CCA request to.. was it the Original credit card company or to Rockwell ?.

 

If you havent been sent a copy of the agreement then the account is in DISPUTE and as such that is all you need to write to Rockwell.

 

I have tried to find a suitable letter for you, but as a newbie myself, I dont want to give you duff information. Someone will be along soon to help you I am sure.

 

DONT Panic. As Curlyben says in his earlier post

 

No CCA = No enforceable debt.

 

When you sent out your original CCA letter and received no reply in 12 + 2 days, did you send out the reminder which gave a further 30 days for the company to respond ?

[Chickenlicken99]

originally, I received a letter from LLoyds TSB stating that the original account was assigned to Phoenix recoveries acting in the name and on behalf of Tessera Recoveries. LLoyds stated that the effective owner of the account was now Phoenix recoveries. Phoenix has now appointed Rockwell as their servicing agent to manage your account on their behalf. All further contact and payments regarding this account should now be directed to Rockwell. This letter was accompanied by one from Rockwell basically confirming that Phoenix had been assigned the account and that Rockwell were their managing agent.

 

Then a few days later came the letter from Rockwell stating the had been appointed by Phoenix to collect the unpaid debt within 7 days, or they would take immediate action.

 

I sent Rockwell a letter sent RC to state I was in receipt of letter dated...and having taken legal advice I wish you to supply me with a copy of the signed credit agreement relating to this debt (and enclosing a PO for £1 payment).

I stated on the letter that if i did not hear from them within 28 days i would consider the matter closed.

 

This was all what the consumer advice phone people told me to do.

 

I received a letter from R acknowledhging receipt of my letter, stating theywould contact me again shortly.

 

Then heard nothing until 6th march when letter from R arrived, stating that LLoyds are unable to provide them with a signed copy of agreement, but has givejn them photocopies of credit card statements relating to the account between 2005 and 2006.

The letter ends 'please remit the sum of £---- by return if you are to avoid recovery action continuing without further notice'

 

Thats how it lies at the moment.

[uk1975]

Try hitting them with this letter

 

Account In Dispute

Letter Before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to my recent correspondence with your company concerning this alleged debt, copies of which are enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

As **DCA** have failed to comply with my Consumer Credit Act request and admitted that the alleged signed executed agreement is unavailable, enforcement action is impossible under section 127 (3) of the Act.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at XXXXXXXX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

If **DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within fourteen (14) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

I also require a copy of your internal complaints procedure as further action may be necessary.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours Faithfully

[citizenB]

Right, well now I am thoroughly confused. I am sure someone will come along and correct me if I am wrong...

 

Lloyds have assigned your account to PHOENIX using Rockwell as collection Agents. I would say that you should have sent your letter to PHOENIX. I UK1975 has posted a letter for you to send so that is good news.

[Chickenlicken99]

Im a little confused too!

As all the correspondance has been from Rockwells, im assuming i send the letter to them, although from what LLoyds say, it is Phoenix who now own the debt (I presume they own it. Does 'assigned' mean that LLoyds have sold the debt to Phoenix? So LLoyds are no long anything to do with it?)

In sending this letter to Rockwell as agents, this will include Phoenix (as they have deemed R to act on their behalf)

 

Also in the letter suggested in the paragraph beginning..'Therefore as at....(date)...Im presuming that the date i enter here is the date 42 days (12 days & 30 days) after their receipt of my request for CCA letter.

 

I just want to get it right.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this before I send this out?

Very grateful for all help.

[citizenB]

Chickenlikken,

 

Send the letter to Phoenix as they are the DCA that OWN your debt from what you and Lloyds say.. and COPY the letter to Rockwells, with a covering letter

 

Something along the lines of

 

 

Dear Rockwell

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE : I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxxxxx .

 

I am puzzled as to why Phoenix, knowing this account is in dispute and that they havent complied with my legal request for a signed executed agreement, have passed this on to you for collection.

 

However this account IS in dispute and will remain so until such times as Phoenix have complied with my legal request.

 

I enclose a copy of a letter that I have sent to Phoenix for your information.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

 

**********************************

UK1975's letter to be sent to PHOENIX

 

 

Account In Dispute

Letter Before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to my recent correspondence with your company concerning this alleged debt, copies of which are enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

As PHOENIX have failed to comply with my Consumer Credit Act request and admitted that the alleged signed executed agreement is unavailable, enforcement action is impossible under section 127 (3) of the Act.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on ENTER HERE THE 12 +2 DAYS DATE and HERE THE 42 DAYS DATE respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at HERE THE 42 DAYS DATE this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

If PHOENIX chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within fourteen (14) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

I also require a copy of your internal complaints procedure as further action may be necessary.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours Faithfully

[Chickenlicken99]

Thanks for the advice and letters.

 

Id better just confirm to you that I sent my letter asking for a copy of the signed credit agreement to Rockwell.

I have checked the paperwork on the letters Rockwell have sent ...and in very small print it states that...Rockwell is a trading name of Tessera Credit services Ltd.

 

In another letter it states 'We have been instructed by Phoenix Recoveries (UK)Ltd on behalf of its compartment Tessera Recoveries, to contact you regarding the above account which remains unpaid'.

 

No where is there an address for Phoenix.

BUT, it appears that they are all the same organisation (albeit with different names).

So, as I have no address for Phoenix, do I just send one letter to Rockwell?

Sorry to be a pedantic pain, but you have given me detailed info, and it would be a shame to F*** it up.

 

Also, I called Consumer Direct today, who agreed the debt is unenforceable, but that they could (via the credit card statements) have some evidence to go to court with it. Although they agreed that they have breached the timescales as per the Consumer Credit Act. They also suggested writing a similar letter to that you have suggested.

[citizenB]

Phoenix are at:

 

Phoenix Credit Services Ltd

Olympic House

6 Olympic Court

Salford M50 2QP

 

If Phoenix OWN your debt then Rockwell wont have the agreement and you could be going round in circles until you are 180. This is the reason I said for you to send the Original letter to Phoenix with a copy to Rockwell. Rockwell should have passed the original CCA request on to Phoenix.

[Curlyben]

Errrr guys they are ALL part of the same company.

Tessera has alot of different heads.

[citizenB]

Errrr guys they are ALL part of the same company.

Tessera has alot of different heads.

 

 

Chickenlicken99, how did you get on with this. Sorry. I lost the link to your thread and only just found it again.

[NitrousOxide]

Errrr guys they are ALL part of the same company.

Tessera has alot of different heads.

What CB ^^ said.

Plus you can send the company or their agent the CCA request.

It really doesn't matter as:

 

LLoyds are unable to provide them with a signed copy of agreement, but has givejn them photocopies of credit card statements relating to the account between 2005 and 2006.

 

They don't have it. Every time they used to send me a chasing letter I used to send a non-compliance one back.

Eventually they wrote saying they would not persue anymore. It's all in my sig. CLICK ME

Edited May 28, 2008 by NitrousOxide
Linky

[citizenB]

Chickenlikken, is there an update please.