Dell / Official Complaints Procedures

[heliosfa]

If this is so why does Everest report 3GB under physical memory on my 32 bit vista system yet reports 8GB on my 64bit system, both systems have all the same devices requiring addressable space in fact the 64bit machines has a lot more.

 

I know there is 4GB and system isnt lying but Vista's 32bit versions actually limit how much memory you can use in practice to 3.12GB (See support.microsoft.com/kb/929605)

Becuase Everest is reporting the Virtual Memory (addressable Space) available as the Physical Memory on your 32 bit System.

 

In windows, all of the memory that you interact with is Virtual. Multiple things make up this virtual memory, e.g. Physical RAM, any device with Memory or cache on it (Graphics Cards, Sound Cards, PhysX Cards, Network Cards, CPUs, BIOS) and any device that requires a driver.

 

the bios will assign address space at the end of the range to devices etc. and assign the start of the address space to Physical RAM.

 

On a 32bit system with a 32-bit memory interface, you have 2^32 bytes of adressable space. This equates to 4 GB (or 4096MB) of addressable space. Say you have a 512MB Graphics card and all other devices in the system added up to 256MB of memory, you would be left with 3.25GB of addressable space that could be assigned to your physical RAM

 

64-bit system can support 2^64 bytes of addressable space, equating to 16777216TB (yes, Tera Bytes or 16 Exa Bytes). So obviously there is enough addressable space for 8GB of RAM AND all of the hardware addressable requirements.

 

The Microsoft article you have linked explains much the same, it is not a limit of Vista per-se but it is a limit of having a 32-bit Operating System using a 32-bit memory address interface.

 

H

[Mykill100]

Becuase Everest is reporting the Virtual Memory (addressable Space) available as the Physical Memory on your 32 bit System.

 

In windows, all of the memory that you interact with is Virtual. Multiple things make up this virtual memory, e.g. Physical RAM, any device with Memory or cache on it (Graphics Cards, Sound Cards, PhysX Cards, Network Cards, CPUs, BIOS) and any device that requires a driver.

 

the bios will assign address space at the end of the range to devices etc. and assign the start of the address space to Physical RAM.

 

On a 32bit system with a 32-bit memory interface, you have 2^32 bytes of adressable space. This equates to 4 GB (or 4096MB) of addressable space. Say you have a 512MB Graphics card and all other devices in the system added up to 256MB of memory, you would be left with 3.25GB of addressable space that could be assigned to your physical RAM

 

64-bit system can support 2^64 bytes of addressable space, equating to 16777216TB (yes, Tera Bytes or 16 Exa Bytes). So obviously there is enough addressable space for 8GB of RAM AND all of the hardware addressable requirements.

 

The Microsoft article you have linked explains much the same, it is not a limit of Vista per-se but it is a limit of having a 32-bit Operating System using a 32-bit memory address interface.

 

H

 

We are going off topic here yet again but have you read the article it clearly states Vista 32bit can only use 3.12GB also from the article.

 

 

For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements:

• The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following:
  
  • Intel 975X
    
  • Intel P965
    
  • Intel 955X on Socket 775
    
  • Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU.
    

  [*]The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set.

  [*]The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature.

  [*]An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used.

[heliosfa]

I'm not too familiar with this BIOS but it has several conflicting statements. In settings in the overclock feature it is set at 2333MHz with a multiplier of 7X these settings are greyed out so cant be altered. To the right of that under current value it has 2500MHz and 7.5X this Ive taken to be the readings from the CPU. With N/2 enabled I cant get the CPU to reach higher than 2333MHz no matter what I do and in the CPU setting the multiplier is set at 7X and also greyed out. The only way to increase the CPU speed is to increase the FSB. The machine has many other problems I think are related to the PCIe bus because all these components have problems. DELL havent advised updating the BIOS they just want the machine back but are making me wait 2 months for a replacement so I'm taking the refund option. They have stopped production of the machine altogether so I imagine the problems became too much. The system in control panel also reads 2.5GHz no matter what the speed of the CPU even though I have speed step enabled and I gather its taking this data from the BIOS current value which is wrong. If intel was having problems with the 0.5 how can they carry on selling the CPUs has a 2.5GHz. The native speed of this CPU is 2333MHz and that can only be increased by changing the FSB but you can do that with any CPU. Besides that DELL should make sure there machines are running at the speed they are selling them at, N/2 wasnt even enabled when I received this PC not that it did any good but its clearly stated has a 2.5GHz machine.

 

This is were I'm unclear and you might be able to help here. Because in settings in the overclock feature of the BIOS are set at 2333MHz will that prevent the N/2 adding the 0.5? Also the CPU settings in Nvidia control panel for the CPU also show 2333MHz and multiplier 7X which I know to be the true value from testing.

 

What model machine is it?

Is the overclocking Disabled? if it isn't, I would disable Overclocking and Speed Step and see what happens. I have seem situations before where the Chipset can support the .5 multipliers, but the Overclocking only works with integers, so when it is enabled, the multiplier drops .5.

Also, as for your PCI / PCIe problems, are there custom clock speeds set for these?

 

A bios update may also sort out your problems.

 

H

[heliosfa]

We are going off topic here yet again but have you read the article it clearly states Vista 32bit can only use 3.12GB also from the article.

That is very odd in the article, because when I have used Vista 32 on my systems here and users systems at work with 4GB of RAM installed, it has shown up to 3.5GB available.

[Mykill100]

This is were DELL have me baffled they have locked me out of all the controls relating to Overclock so I cant change anything. I believe the machines are deliberately underclocked because of problems running them at 2.5GHz. This is were I'm unsure Ive been away from PCs for nearly 2 years and this has me confused. This is why I asked the advise on the overclock settings.

[Mykill100]

That is very odd in the article, because when I have used Vista 32 on my systems here and users systems at work with 4GB of RAM installed, it has shown up to 3.5GB available.

 

Do you think its possible with laptops and computers with intergrated graphics that they can use the extra memory, maybe, I dont know. I know the amount of memory used by other devices is very small so thats all I can think of.

[heliosfa]

Do you think its possible with laptops and computers with intergrated graphics that they can use the extra memory, maybe, I dont know. I know the amount of memory used by other devices is very small so thats all I can think of.

Yes, generally with graphics cards with Smaller memory footprints (integrated, or 256MB, i have seen more RAM available.

 

This is were DELL have me baffled they have locked me out of all the controls relating to Overclock so I cant change anything. I believe the machines are deliberately underclocked because of problems running them at 2.5GHz. This is were I'm unsure Ive been away from PCs for nearly 2 years and this has me confused. This is why I asked the advise on the overclock settings.

What model machine is it?

 

H

[Mykill100]

Its an XPS630I with a [email protected](2.3GHz) I personally think DELL underclocked it.

[Mykill100]

There have been a lot of complaints to DELL regards this system freezing up and I mean a lot. DELL have actually been asking in there own forums if anyone can figure out why it is happening (The replies were so funny). I believe DELL realised that if the frequency is reduced yu get a lot less freezes and lets be honest here 99% of people wouldnt have a clue what speed there machine is running at and they thought they would get away with it. Thats my opinion. I dont think theres anything wrong with the BIOS or the CPU.

[heliosfa]

Its an XPS630I with a [email protected](2.3GHz) I personally think DELL underclocked it.

 

If Dell underclocked it, you would be able to re-clock it.

 

I would be looking at doing a bios update and settings clear, which might, just might, sort it all out.

 

 

Dell have stopped selling them as they have now moved to the i5s and i7s for the XPS desktop range.

 

H

[Mykill100]

Yes it would require a flash to let me back into the features but Ive no intention of doing it. I just need someone with knowledge of these overclock features, usually you can highlight a feature and the right hand panel will tell you exactly what that feature does but because DELL have tampered with the BIOS I cant find out.

[heliosfa]

Yes it would require a flash to let me back into the features but Ive no intention of doing it. I just need someone with knowledge of these overclock features, usually you can highlight a feature and the right hand panel will tell you exactly what that feature does but because DELL have tampered with the BIOS I cant find out.

 

OK, generally on some of the more advanced features, the Bios doesn't tell you what they are! can you list what settings you you want clarification on?

 

H

[Mykill100]

What I basically need to know is in the overclock settings, if you set the frequency below the CPU native speed would that override the CPU speed, really I'm asking can you underclock with this overclock feature.

[heliosfa]

What I basically need to know is in the overclock settings, if you set the frequency below the CPU native speed would that override the CPU speed, really I'm asking can you underclock with this overclock feature.

 

Yes, you could underclock the CPU by adjusting either the FSB or multiplier. As a rule of thumb, underclocking is done by dropping the multiplier. Dropping the multiplier also plays a part in overclocking the CPU to higher clock speeds.

 

Generally on CPUs, the Multiplier has an upper lock of what it is meant to run at, but multipliers below this are available for selection.

 

 

I have a system here where I have dropped the multiplier right down so that I could drop the Core Voltage to save power. The system was 2.2GHz, it is now 1.0GHz.

 

H

[Mykill100]

You were right in your first estimation, the BIOS is faulty so maybe DELL havent messed with it. Ive just been back in the BIOS and the greyed out area now reads 2500MHz with a 7.5 multiplier with the current value the same. So I turned off N/2 and did a quick restart and checked again and it read 2333MHz and so did the current value. Yet the CPU will still only run at 2333MHz. Ive just run a test now. I'm glad I took a photo of the BIOS showing 2 different settings together on the same page people would think I was making it up.

 

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb274/mykel100/Photo0022.jpg

Edited October 24, 2009 by Mykill100

[heliosfa]

You were right in your first estimation, the BIOS is faulty so maybe DELL havent messed with it. Ive just been back in the BIOS and the greyed out area now reads 2500MHz with a 7.5 multiplier with the current value the same. So I turned off N/2 and did a quick restart and checked again and it read 2333MHz and so did the current value. Yet the CPU will still only run at 2333MHz. Ive just run a test now. I'm glad I took a photo of the BIOS showing 2 different settings together on the same page people would think I was making it up.

 

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb274/mykel100/Photo0022.jpg

 

 

OK, I am confused as to why there is a HT Speed setting in there as HT (Hyper Transport) is an AMD thing and shouldn't be in an intel bios.

 

Try these settings:

 

• CPU Clock Ratio Unlock - Enabled
  
• CPU N/2 - Enabled
  
• SpeedStep/EIST - Disabled
  
• C1E - Disabled
  

save, reboot and have a look.

[Mykill100]

OK, I am confused as to why there is a HT Speed setting in there as HT (Hyper Transport) is an AMD thing and shouldn't be in an intel bios.

 

Try these settings:

 

• CPU Clock Ratio Unlock - Enabled
  
• CPU N/2 - Enabled
  
• SpeedStep/EIST - Disabled
  
• C1E - Disabled
  

save, reboot and have a look.

 

That did it, the CPU can now reach 2.5GHz whoopee, but there is a problem because even though Ive disabled speedstep I used Tmonitor by CPUID to monitor the CPU frequency and its still throttling up from 2GHz. But you did what I couldnt, Nvidia control panel is now reading 2.5GHz with a multiplier of 7.5X also.

[heliosfa]

That did it, the CPU can now reach 2.5GHz whoopee, but there is a problem because even though Ive disabled speedstep I used Tmonitor by CPUID to monitor the CPU frequency and its still throttling up from 2GHz. But you did what I couldnt, Nvidia control panel is now reading 2.5GHz with a multiplier of 7.5X also.

 

What are the temperatures like?

[Mykill100]

What are the temperatures like?

 

When the CPU is idle its at 42c but none of the cores go above 35, Ive stressed it for a while and the its reached 64c but the cores are in the high 40s. I dont think heat is an issue it seems to have settled at 64c in fact its going down to 63c at times. Seems very stable. Ive already told DELL I want a refund, there are too many issues and Ive been troubleshooting for a month and if I update to the latest Nvidia drivers I lose all stability, plus the TV card and PhysX dont work neither do the controls for gamma, brightness and stuff in Nvidia control panel. Now I know the BIOS is faulty to:-|

[heliosfa]

When the CPU is idle its at 42c but none of the cores go above 35, Ive stressed it for a while and the its reached 64c but the cores are in the high 40s. I dont think heat is an issue it seems to have settled at 64c in fact its going down to 63c at times. Seems very stable. Ive already told DELL I want a refund, there are too many issues and Ive been troubleshooting for a month and if I update to the latest Nvidia drivers I lose all stability, plus the TV card and PhysX dont work neither do the controls for gamma, brightness and stuff in Nvidia control panel. Now I know the BIOS is faulty to:-|

 

Where are you getting the core temperatures from? The core temperatures should be 10 to 20 C higher than the "CPU" temperature as they are the hottest parts of the CPU. If you are getting core readings less than the CPU temp, then your tool needs calibrating!

 

 

I don't think the bios is faulty, I just think it was mis-configured. To be honest, it could be the cause of your other problems aswell. A Bios clear might sort mostthings out for you.

 

H

[Mykill100]

I'm using everest ultimate for all my temps it gives each individual core and the CPU temp, both GPU temps the HD temp and core voltage plus a figure for the CPU fan which I dont understand its at 1.0. Why would the BIOS display two different frequencys if it wasnt faulty and why wont speedstep disable even though its registered has disabled. A flash might sort it out and its possible the BIOS is responsible for all the problems but do you think its worth me carrying on trying to troubleshoot each individual problem. Ive sorted out a few and now you have sorted that one but has a whole for a PC to this corrupt right out of the box. I dont know, I'd love it to work properly I do like the machine but its also the way DELL are treating me.

[heliosfa]

I'm using everest ultimate for all my temps it gives each individual core and the CPU temp, both GPU temps the HD temp and core voltage plus a figure for the CPU fan which I dont understand its at 1.0. Why would the BIOS display two different frequencys if it wasnt faulty and why wont speedstep disable even though its registered has disabled. A flash might sort it out and its possible the BIOS is responsible for all the problems but do you think its worth me carrying on trying to troubleshoot each individual problem. Ive sorted out a few and now you have sorted that one but has a whole for a PC to this corrupt right out of the box. I dont know, I'd love it to work properly I do like the machine but its also the way DELL are treating me.

 

The BIOS was displaying the "current" clock and the "stock" clock for reference.

 

The reason I was asking about temps is that intel CPUs throttle down if they get too hot. A good tool for finding out the actual core temperature is RealTemp.

 

You haven't got an odd profile set in nVidia Control Panel have you? or have you got the nVidia ESA software installed?

 

To be honest, if a Bios Clear and/or Flash sorts out all of the problems, it is only a 10 minute job and it could save you ALOT of agro!

 

H

[Mykill100]

I think I'm going to stick with the refund, Its a slim chance that the BIOS is disrupting the PCIe bus its more probable that a main board fault is causing those issues its even possible the same fault is causing BIOS corruption. I could just ask DELL to take the machine and fix the issue and if I'd had the machine a while and it started acting up I would have done but its not worked since I first turned it on and has Ive progressed more and more faults have turned up. It started off has the TV card wouldnt work and the system returned to a low resolution after every boot to all the issues I have now. I can play games on the machine but it freezes when things get busy and I have to do a hot shutdown. I dont get any error for it in event viewer except for the unexpected shutdown so there is no way to troubleshoot that problem. Ive given up with DELL Ive already picked the machine I want I just hope they do quick refunds. I'm going to vanish now but thanks for the help. Take care Heliosfa I'm sure to see you on this forum in the future. Bye for now.

[heliosfa]

I think I'm going to stick with the refund, Its a slim chance that the BIOS is disrupting the PCIe bus its more probable that a main board fault is causing those issues its even possible the same fault is causing BIOS corruption. I could just ask DELL to take the machine and fix the issue and if I'd had the machine a while and it started acting up I would have done but its not worked since I first turned it on and has Ive progressed more and more faults have turned up. It started off has the TV card wouldnt work and the system returned to a low resolution after every boot to all the issues I have now. I can play games on the machine but it freezes when things get busy and I have to do a hot shutdown. I dont get any error for it in event viewer except for the unexpected shutdown so there is no way to troubleshoot that problem. Ive given up with DELL Ive already picked the machine I want I just hope they do quick refunds. I'm going to vanish now but thanks for the help. Take care Heliosfa I'm sure to see you on this forum in the future. Bye for now.

Probably the best bet! have fun and see you around

 

H

[cirian75]

I'm having Dell problems, but to be accurate its nowhere near dell fault really.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/227479-laptop-swapz-going-wrong.html

 

any ways of getting dell to honour the warrenty ?