what do you think

[Pen]

hi everyone.

I don't know if anyone else has come across this problem maybe who knows.

 

A couple of years ago when we first moved into our house we could not find out who are elec supplier was, we wrote to all of them asking if they were supplying our address and all said no in particular Scottish Power.

 

We had not had a meter reading or received a bill for 2 years and i knew, well you do don't you!! that someone would send us one some point. Well this point happened when I had just finished work on early retirement and I was waiting for my smallish lump sum pension payment.

 

We got a bill for £2,500 from Scottish Power, this is despite the fact that they had written to us informing us that we did not have a supply with them. Obviously we owed someone and Scottish Power were they only ones who had given us a bill despite it being a whopper. Anyway they wrote asking us to pay in full which at the time I couldn't however I did say we would pay our quarterly bill and catch up with the arrears when we could afford to.

 

To cut a long story short they eventually threaten to install a prepayment meter and applied for a warrant I informed them that I was awaiting funds from my pension and would be able to pay the balance in full the following month! would they listen obviously not, they went ahead with the warrant and installed the meter. This meter was set to deduct £10 a week of the arrears. The following week I paid the bill £2,500 in full then phoned them and asked them to remove the meter.

 

They refused stating that the new quaterly bill was due. Anyway after many months of complaining to get it removed they never did and to be honest I was too ill to care so I stopped phoning them. In fact I never got another bill?? I was paying somewhere in the regian of £60 a week for elec cards.

 

About 16 months after the meter was installed there was a knock on the door it was a meter engineer from SP come to reset the meter. on doing so he informed us that the meter was near £700 in credit. Once again I was on the phone to SP and insisted that they remove the meter and refund us the £700. 2 weeks later they removed the meter and again no bills arrived, I also could not get a refund as they once again said they are not supplying our electricity so could not possibly owe us any money.

 

yes It gets better.

 

4 weeks ago I received a final demand for £1,200. I phoned them and said they were not getting a penny until they resolved our problem. The wrote stating they were going to court at the beginning of this month for a warrant.

I could not attend the court so I faxed the court a copy of my letter stating the account was in dispute along with a copy of all the other letters and SAR that I had sent to SP. Also I included my new agreement with British Gas as I had swapped suppliers due to their incompetence so in fact they weren't even supplying me with Electricity.

 

Last week I received a letter from SP stating they had obtained a warrant and were installing the meter on the 25th of this month. I phoned the court and spoke to the person in listings to ask if the judge had received my faxes. the women remembered me as I had spoken to her to begin with and asked for the fax number anyway she went off to check the files and said that the magistrate refused to give SP a warrant and that they had to write to me to sort it out. I ask her if she was sure no warrant was insued and she confirmed it.

 

I told her about the letter from SP claiming they have a warrant and she said it was not from them.

 

now I am confused :-? I phoned SP and said it was very naughty of them sending me a letter informing me they have been issued with a warrant when they clearly haven't, however they refused to discuss they issue with me stating it is in the hands of their legal department.

 

roll on next week!

Are SP always this incompetant. has anyone else had or heard of anyone else having so much trouble with SP

[Conniff]

If there is still a dispute with SP Pen then stop using the telephone to contact them, only do things in writing and then you have a paper trail of all that has been said.

[Pen]

S...t!!! Con, your so right!! how silly of me, how could I be so nieve i'm not generaly so stupd I think it's because I get so angry with them! no more phone calls.

[patrickq1]

also if they say they have a warrant i would (out of devilment )let them enter your property and then phone the police and have them arrested ,you will be entitled to compensation ,and also let it get to the judge as you have to be a witness this way they will have to pay you whatever you say you are owned and as for them explaining falsethreats of having a legal warrant OH DEAR can you imagine a judge when he looks at this,fraudulent attempt to obtain monies by deception the list of laws they have broken is endless my opinion only

[whirlybird]

Have you complained to Energywatch yet? Since you have been given the royal runaround by this lot I'd probably do as Patrick1 suggested and let a judge deal with them.

Energywatch dealt with utilities when they were mucking me about as they couldnt decide who was supplying me.After months of calls and letters, Energywatch got involved and it was sorted within a cpl weeks

[patrickq1]

i used energywatch yesterday against british gas for adding inflation of 12 .00 to the bill and i will not let this go legal theft in my book i hate crooks the cheek inflation i did not sign up to pay for inflated rates,

[Pen]

yes I do intend to contact energywatch.

 

To be honest, I am hoping they don't call because if they do I am going to have to take some sort of action. I have a letter from them claiming they have a warrant which I know to be untrue so if they call they are trying to gain entry by deception. I have never seen a warrant so don't know if they could just print one off and add my name and address to it. However I am certain it would have to be signed by a magistrate. if I let them in without asking to see the warrant simply because I have it in writing from them that they have obtained one I don't think they could be charged with trespass because I have confirmed with they court that they have not obtained it but they could be charged with deception. However were does my responsibility lie?? I know they do not have one so if I allow them entry knowing no warrant exisits would it be classed as an invite?? I will have to check up in my old law books.

 

By the way who does own my metter. I am no longer a customer of SP as i changed to BG and I have an agreement from them and a letter informing me that the change over has taken place and I should inform SP of my final metter reading.

[patrickq1]

then when they call ring the police and if they have a warrant tough you are not a customer of theirs and you dont want them to enter your property just reiterate this to the police and ask that they check with the magistarate if it a genuine warrant and you suspect it is not as the courts have notified you it is not

patrickq1

[Pen]

Priceless.

 

I received S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) details today but before looking through them I got distracted by a CD that was enclosed. The CD was a taped conversation I had with them about 3 weeks ago when I called them to ask them to cancel there application for a Warrant as they are no longer my supplier and I felt they owe me money not me owe them.

 

The CD is about 30 mins long and at the start of it the lady asked if my O/H was around so he could give her permission to talk to her. He was and he did, all this was clearly heard on the CD. During the conversation it was obviously we were going round in circles so I asked to speak to a Manager this request was ignored ten mins later I again asked to speak with the manager and again it was ignored after a further request she agreed and put me on hold this was 15 mins into the CD. that's it !! music till the CD finishes a further 15 mins later it's like I am just left on the line.

 

What really happen was I did eventually speak to them manager told him of my concerns and he refused to discuss the issue with me and wanted to speak to my O/H instead, I informed him that my O/H has already given permission during this conversation for me to speak on his behalf Manager said I don't care I will only discuss it with your O/H and put the phone down on me.

 

I am now going to write and ask why the CD has been edited and request a copy of the whole conversation.

 

the CD really does show them in bad light leaving me hanging on the phone for 15 mins before it stops, the problems i am having all relates to a lack of communication from their side, this is a prime example.

[DCA-KING]

First thing i would do is go down the courts and get a letter confirming that no warrant was issued, So when they do come around and break in call the police tell them burgalury in procress they be there like a flash

let them have there say to the cops then just show the cops the letter from the court that there was no warrant and that the judge wouldnt give them one and that you would like them arrested if the cops refuse tell them that you will be contacteing the chief constable and with have them charged with aiding and abeiting a crime

make sure you have others there at the time

[patrickq1]

so if I allow them entry knowing no warrant exisits would it be classed as an invite

this is still deception,and as you are not a customer of theirs they are still trying it on obtaining monies or whatever by deception,

i would be sending them a letter LBA before action and follow it through i am sure the magistrate would like to see the threats of deception,it really is bordering on criminal

patrickq1

[Conniff]

It matters not unless it is a baillif. If it is a debt collecting agency then you can invite them in for a cuppa and a chat if you wish, they cannot levy against goods and chatels etc and have no powers to do anything.

[Pen]

I think I'm in agreement with Pat.

 

Con, I think somehow your missing the point. I think it matters a lot. They have writtern to me stating they have obtain a warrent to change my meter. The court have confirmed that they would not issue them one because the account is in dispute so if they turn up at my door it is on the basis that they are claiming they have a warrent which is deception. If I invite the in and make them a cuppa i'm I taking part in that deception.

 

They have it on record that I am seriously ill, maybe, they are using that to their advantage believing I would not cause a fuss.

 

However I don't see that I have any choice other then letting them in. Then I will have a stronger case to fight.

 

I am in a fortunite posistion of being able to pay what they claim I owe them tomorrow if I wanted to but that's not the point. The point is they owe me not me owe them! and, I am no longer a customer of theirs so they have no right to enter my property even if they did have a warrent what would they do with it. they can't turn off my supply as they are not the ones supplying it BG are

 

I have wrriten to the court to get conformation in writing, I have also enclosed the letter from SP claiming they were issued with the warrant.

 

I have also writen to SP about their underhanded conduct. I have informed them that I will be taking legal action if their rep comes to call. And requested that they supply me with a un edited virsion of the CD along with a record of all my payments todate.

 

I have also photo copied everything and sent it with a complaint to energy watch.

 

All I can do now is wait and see what happens this week. unless anyone can think of anything else I should be doing.

 

thanks everyone. I will keep you posted on what happends.

[DCA-KING]

Also send them a letter STATING THE COURTS DIDNT GIVE YOU A WARRANT AND I HAVE IT IN WRITING OFF THE JUDGE SO CAN YOU PLAESE FORWARD ME A COPY OF THE SIGNED WARRANT AS THE JUDGE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT the prob Sh*t them selfs and also add that you would like a copy for your court case when the right back stating that they dont have a court case write and tell them not A-v Me ,Me-v-YOU

regards chris

[Pen]

Hi Guy's sorry I still need your help as this is still carrying on.

 

What has happened since my last post.

 

Well I refused to pay because in my opinion they owed me money not me owe them. But everytime i got a bill they would not allow me to pay it unless i paid the amount they said i owed first and if i did pay then they would just deduct the money and the new bill would still be outstanding. Sooooo I have been puting the bill payments into a savings account until this problem is sorted out. But now they are taking me to court for 2,800. I agree I owe around 1,300 and i have the money to pay that in my savings acount but not the 2,800 so I am now fighting this in court. I have sent in my defence plus a counter claime for the money the owe me plus for none compliance with my SAR request since they only sent my some details not all of them and especialy not the ones which shows my card payments.

 

However since i did not put an amount that i wish to counter claime. I left this blank for the court to decide. I was sent a letter from the court asking me to pay £1000 plus. no way could i aford this so I have cancelled my counter claime and just defending my case.

 

Today I received a letter from Drydens scottish powers solicitor with a copy of an application notice which they have issued with the court. This notice is basically asking the court to make a judgement in their favor staing i don't have a leg to stand on in winning my case so I need desprite help in what to do next!!!

 

Do I have to issue a application notice???

Can I ask for a stay in proccedings????

any ideas please. my bill is growing and growing all the time. currently it stands at 3, 500.

 

I look forward to hearing your replies and hope someone can give me some anwsers.

 

Just out of interest i thought they could not issue legal proccedings in there was a dispute.

[patrickq1]

However since i did not put an amount that i wish to counter claime. I left this blank for the court to decide. I was sent a letter from the court asking me to pay £1000 plus. no way could i aford this so I have cancelled my counter claime and just defending my case

 

making this payment would show good faith to the magistrate,the magistrate will look at everything and make instructions to the otherside if they are not complying with your wishes,but i would suggest you make the payment requested by the court,if possible

you also need to ask the judge to ORDER TO PRODUCE CCA CPR31.16 this is where you will get all your data and be able to assess just what has happened to your payments and find out why they have not registered your payments....at this point the judge will probably suspend the case till you have had time to look at everything and you will then get a new date ...so this way now you can see what and where you need to move

hope this helps

patrickq1

[Pen]

wow Patrick. I was really hoping you would reply but did not for one minute think you would be so quick thank you. Do you not think that i make an application to the court to have the case struck out or stayed until the producee this information. should i do this on a form N244 or should i just write a letter what do you think x sorry I meant to add that they have had ample time already to produce my SAR

[patrickq1]

i think showing good faith to the magistrates is the best way forward and then the magistrate will undoubtably order they comply with the CPR REQUEST and he will obviously stay the procceedings,

when you are making the payment into the courts include your request and let the judge know they have on numerous occasions refused to comply with any CCA OR SAR and you need definitiv information to see just why and where they are getting these figures from,and you feel they are abusing the courts proccess by not complying...this way you are being up front and showing you are also the injusred party..

patrickq1

[pelham9]

Magistrates?

 

It seems to me that SP are taking you to court for an alleged civil debt the action will be in a civil court and before a judge.

 

If Scottish Power did not send you a bill for two years after you noved in they are only entitled to payment for the preceding one year - has this been taken into account?

[pelham9]

Was your property a new build ? It seems inconceivable that the utilities should be in this muddle over an established supply. There is often a muddle over newbuilds because communications between National Grid (formerly Transco) who own the meter and supply are abysmal and addresses are often incorrect on the databases.

 

This first bill for £2500 appears to be a curiously rounded figure - is it correct? Have you checked it?

 

If the first meter reading and bill was after two years you only owe them for one year. Of necessity the meter reading they will have used at the beginning of the year that they can charge you for will be an estimate. Check that this estimate is not too low so that they get most of your usage into the second year for which you are paying. Also check to see that you are not paying VAT on the whole amount - VAT is only payable on the last year but they tend to rebate the first year without deducting VAT also.

[luby]

Hi everyone, well it's court day today and i have all the information I need hopefully.

just some quick questions if i may.

Patrick will ORDER TO PRODUCE CCA CPR31.16 give me details of all individual payments i have made ????

 

If Scottish Power did not send you a bill for two years after you moved in they are only entitled to payment for the preceding one year - has this been taken into account?

 

No! this figure was reached after a lot of arguing. they said this was the minimum they would except so we paid it. Can we still argue this???? if so what do we need to say.

 

read a couple of weeks ago the the EU stated it was unfair to charge higher power chargers just because a customer had a meter and that this should be paid back to the customer. could i mention this in court if it seems i am losing.

any help would be greatly appreciated as i am sh....... myself lol!!!

thanks

pen

 

PS Our home is about 15 years old. even now we don't get quarterly bills were lucky if we get them once a year.

[luby]

sorry, why has my name changed to Luby???????

[Pen]

Whent to court and the magistrate has ordered SP to provide both the court and me with a statement of account within 14 days. patrickq is that the CCA CPR31.16 you mentioned???

 

I also have to write a defence on why i feel i don't owe them the money there asking for.

 

In my defence, is there anything else i can write about????? for instance would I have been charged court costs when they tried and failed to get the warrant and would that have been added to my bill ????

 

does a pre payment meter have additional costs ie installation etc i can claim back?? I read something about the EU saying we should not be paying more for electricity just because of PP meters, how would i work out just how much over the odds i did pay.????

 

Also I don't understand what Pelham is saying about only having to pay for the previous 12 months, where can i find out more about this, as i thought any money owed is collect able up to 6 years after!!!

 

thanks guys!

[pelham9]

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