HUMBLEMAN vs HFC-WEIGHTMANS COURT ACTION

[vjohn82]

Is a pro bono barrister worth looking at?

[diddydicky]

If anyone is thinking of organising CAGGERS together to help with costs, please add my name to the list.

 

BF

 

mine goes without saying- ive suggested it before and we SHOULD force some of these issues to such appeals

[seriously fed up]

Sorry all but I spent some time with my two youngs sons tonight as I have been focusing on this case and a few others... as there was nothing I could reasonably do in the meantime I just needed a little time with them and some reflection on what happened today.

 

I think, without question, the Judge got it horribly wrong. The barrister did admit that if the late disclosure document (the mailer form) had been available he would have instructed his client differently. This should be clearly on the transcript without deviation.

 

I don't think me or humbleman could have done anymore; the Judge seemed against us the moment we walked in there and was practically drooling over the barrister's well put statements (I have to be fair about it).

 

But he made a number of startling admissions in the course of proceedings - especially concerning the assignment. He admitted that nothing was signed to "officially" transfer the title of the debt (Deed of Assignment).

 

The Judge regarded the NoA, the LoP and section 78 to be de minimus issues. We demonstrated and served all of the appropriate case law and the Judge can be in no doubt to the case we attempted to put across.

 

Very disappointed and whilst I felt I let humbleman and the CAG down my wife said I had prepared well and tried to direct humbleman through what became an uphill battle in the end.

 

I certainly felt we had a strong case. I thought it was all over for the Claimant if the Judge accepted that mailer form (please post a copy of it humbleman).

 

Proper judge lottery in this case.

 

Let's go for the appeal... the case was sound on the law and even the Judge's "morality" lecture was incorrect because humbleman was not trying to wriggle out of this debt. He was, in this case as I saw it and interacted with him, genuinely concerned about his consumer rights of charges and excessive interest.

 

Get the barrister in!!!

 

I have highlighted a few things in red in the quote vj because I am sorry but I think you are wrong when you say "the judge got it horribly wrong" (first bit in red). I dont agree. I think the decision was made before the case began - "judge against us the moment we walked in there" being the best illustration. Notice of assignment is de minimis is it? I think we need to understand this as a judgement which began from a conclusion (the claimant will win) and worked back, organizing the evidence as it went.

You didnt let anyone down today vj. You gave up your time and your energy to support a fellow CAGer in their hour of need. Were you a high powered barrister - like the chap that PT has suggested Humbleman contact - it MIGHT have made a difference as the judge would have needed to progress with more care. But I do have serious DOUBTS about this.

Last thing - why is a judge doing morality lectures at all? If I want a morality lecture then I will go to Church, thank you very much.

Bottom line - you and Humbleman have been the victims of a legal mugging that you could have done little about. That mugging needs to be corrected.

[pedross]

Is a pro bono barrister worth looking at?

 

I think the recommendation from pt sounds like a good option based on the comments by pt.

[seriously fed up]

mine goes without saying- ive suggested it before and we SHOULD force some of these issues to such appeals

me too

But how to do it?

[diddydicky]

I am not sure Humbleman if new evidence can be put in an appeal. I think an appeal can only be on a point of law. Did the judge misdirect herself? Did she make a decision that wasnt just unreasonable/ wrong, but so unreasonable/ wrong that no competent judge could have come to that decision. Dont know how much use the mailer would be in these circumstances.

I am sure someone on the site team could suggest a list of sympathetic and knowledgeable barristers for you.

 

she didn't dismiss the new evidence- she examined it therefore she accepted it into the trial (IMO)

[humbleman]

She was about to give the mailer copy back to me but when I mentioned about the appeal, she put it in the trial bundle and commented 'in which case I guess I better hang on to this' something to that effect

[saddler68]

There are a number of cases like this one coming up, up and down the country, where debtors subscribing to forums to write of debts, are using technicalities and CCA 1974 to write off debts. I am not sure that the defendant has done the same or not.

 

Subscribing to forums? Pretty clear this thread had been decided upon some time ago. You never stood a chance.

[RoadToRecovery]

If anyone is thinking of organising CAGGERS together to help with costs, please add my name to the list.

 

BF

 

mine goes without saying- ive suggested it before and we SHOULD force some of these issues to such appeals

 

me too

But how to do it?

 

With this 100%, in whatever way possible. It is so wrong, just simply wrong.

[Baggio]

There are a number of cases like this one coming up, up and down the country, where debtors subscribing to forums to write of debts, are using technicalities and CCA 1974 to write off debts. I am not sure that the defendant has done the same or not.

 

Subscribing to forums? Pretty clear this thread had been decided upon some time ago. You never stood a chance.

 

WTF?

 

where did they get the assumption you are "a debtor subscribing to a forum to write off debts" from?

[gyos]

There are a number of cases like this one coming up, up and down the country, where debtors subscribing to forums to write of debts, are using technicalities and CCA 1974 to write off debts. I am not sure that the defendant has done the same or not.

 

MY GOD!

 

How DARE consumers actually be aware of the law and their legal rights!

 

FFS.

[DonkeyB]

Sounds like it's a judge who objects to all the extra legal work involved when a consumer knows their rights and puts forward a coherent legal argument. Can't have the little people clogging up our nice courts, can we, or embarrassing our barrister friends?

 

Not that I'm suggesting that's what happened... because obviously judges these days are taught to speed-read 400-page submissions in 20 minutes!

[humbleman]

Couple of other things I forgot to mention

 

1) As of yesterday I have an email from HFC that the account in being dealt with by their collection team

 

2) They are still processing information every month with the CRA's

 

I am under no doubt that Phoenix has nothing to do with the debt there has been no lawful assignment.

 

If anyone ever gets to a stage where they are awarded costs against Phoenix-BEWARE - you might not be able to recover anything. They will have no UK assets to enforce against.

[saddler68]

To even mention a forum suggests to me the judge was well aware of this particular thread. She has reminded us, in no uncertain terms, of who makes the decisions.

[RoadToRecovery]

If there were any bona fide, genuine members of parliament they would get involved with a miscarriage of justice of this nature.

[letsgetitsorted]

hi Humbleman,

So sorry you had a one minded judge who thought of nothing else but giving the money to the barrister. lets sort this judge, she should`nt be able to practice law.

 

go for the appeal, and i am sure if needed we would all chip in to the cost.

[humbleman]

On the question of costs, when the Judge was awarding the costs, I asked the barrister if the costs are from start of the claim and his reply was yes, In that case I told the Judge that I should only be liable for when Phoenix instructed, why should I pay phoenix for what HFC would have incurred, the refused to accept this.

[DonkeyB]

If there were any bona fide, genuine members of parliament they would get involved with a miscarriage of justice of this nature.

 

To be realistic, in the overall scheme of things, this is a mere pinprick that would barely scratch an MP's expenses form. There are far worse miscarriages of justice out there, and humbleman has a long way to go yet! Avenues remain open. Let's keep it in perspective - it's a b*mmer, not the apocalypse.

 

He's getting the right advice and I have no doubt this setback can be overcome with a bit of common sense from the judiciary after a well-crafted appeal, and that's where the effort needs to go.

 

Humbleman is clearly sanguine about the whole affair, and cool headed enough to take the right steps. I'm sure the great support he's getting here will spur him on, though.

 

Get at 'em humbleman!

[humbleman]

Thank you everyone for the ongoing support.

[Baggio]

Thank you everyone for the ongoing support.

 

humbleman, do you have any idea how they got the notion ( which to be fair was spot on ) you were using a forum to help fight your case?

[humbleman]

humbleman, do you have any idea how they got the notion ( which to be fair was spot on ) you were using a forum to help fight your case?

 

No I don't. My view is that the Judges subscribe to areas of press which are bankers friendly and get fed crap by them.

[humbleman]

In my view her decision should have been based on what was contained within the 4 walls of the room and nothing else. She had no right to talk about her view and what was not relevant to the case.

[DonkeyB]

I imagine she has come across internet-style defences before - often people simply cut and paste without trying to understand what they've written.

 

I think she rather underestimated you.

[broken arrow]

I looked at this option with my appeal, a top barrister will cost about £9,000 up front!

 

I have read a number of threads were caggers have mentioned getting a fighting fund together to take an appeal to a higher court, of all the threads including my own I beleive this might be the one to go for.

 

I am willing to say contribute £100 to a fighting fund to get humbleman a decent barrister to wipe the floor with these people.

 

So 90 to a 100 contributors @ £100 each would get us a top notch barirster.

 

I think the recommendation from pt sounds like a good option based on the comments by pt.

[broken arrow]

No doubt humbleman put a cross a decent argument, as I beleive I did in my case, but some judges are not going to allow a LIP to win.