Paypal Reversal - and now they've sent in debt collectors....

[blinking_idiot]

Hi all,

Like most ebay users, I have a hate hate relationship with Paypal. Can't live with it (b*stard fees), can't deal without it (instant gratification users). Imagine how I felt when at the end of November I managed to flog a couple of collectible coins to an apparent UK buyer - frankly delighted - funds for Christmas.

 

The money came in, I transferred it out at once & then took the package down to the post office - International Recorded Signed For, to Lithuania. (Address courtesy of Paypal.)

So far, so normal. In 48 hours it went pearshaped, Paypal demanded all my data on the sale (which I gave within minutes of the email landing in the inbox) & refunded the buyer by emptying My account.

So I started December 'overdrawn' with Paypal, which put a solid crimp in all my proposed Christmas trading. I got email messages saying my "account needed attention", to which I replied that it needed them to stand the racket from a cloned buyer - their system, their security, currently supported by my money.

Paypalsucks suggested that there was hope - through the Ombudsman.

 

So I downloaded the form, completed it, sent it off and they are trying to get it sorted. Props to them, they have got Paypal to talk to them, (Paypal certainly wasn't to me!) but they have to be reasonable and give everyone weeks to sort it all out.

Day before yesterday, ICL (a debt collection agency) called me on Paypal's behalf. They're not interested in dialogue. A crime reference number or the money, in short.

So I've left voicemail mesages regarding interenet fraud & sent a followup email to a local copper, but from what I read here, I may have to try harder to find where Fraud police hang out in Lancashire just to get a Crime Reference number. (Right now I'm accusing Paypal of theft - as they took money from my account without consulting me.) That the guiltiest party is possibly in Lithuania is a charming sideline which I do not propose to hunt down - I sold in good faith, have evidence of shipping, and now have neither coins, money nor a usable Paypal account (which I always left with £50 in, and which at the end of every month I really could use.)

It is getting to the stage where I could stand being without £400 worth of coins. It's the You Owe Us from Paypal that's getting me down. Their security breach, their dud cloned user & I am supposed to pay?

Why?

Irony - eBay wants me to become a PowerSeller. So I can punch more funds through Paypal? Hah.

If anyone has any words of consolation, or suggestions as to how to get a Crime Reference Number swiftly, I would be deeply grateful. I have received much kindness and support with the bank charges kerfuffles (and won!) so I have grounds for hope!

Cheers all

blinking_idiot

Barclays settled in full 30/04/07

Lloyds TSB settled in full 12/04/2007

[pebs]

I recently closed my paypal account as I bought my daughter a "designer coat" off ebay, when it arrived it was cheap and nasty so I contacted the seller to ask to return it only to be told she didnt do refunds.

I put a claim in through paypal and they said I had to get proof that the coat was a fake by going around local designer shops who sold that label and asking them to check the coat and then give me a letter to say its fake

Now why would a shop want to do that for anyone when they have nothing to do with the coat and why would I want to embarrass myself by even asking them?

Paypal`s policy`s are c***!

[electron99]

Reading this and similar tales of woe, if ever I were to use ebay/paypal I would put in my advert,in large letters, will only deal with people on the UK mainland.If,as the O.P found, I had to post to Lithuania, i would refuse pointing to the terms in my advert.

If it then goes wrong you can at least call on the miscreant. You could also check the public electoral roll to see if the person actually lived at the address given.

[Carriep]

Hi,

 

I work for a BBC1 consumer affairs programme called "Don't Get Done, Get Dom", in which presenter Dominic Littlewood attempts to resolve issues which have arisen between consumers and companies.

 

We are currently looking for contributors for our 3rd series and would be extremely keen to hear from anyone experiencing consumer difficulties.

 

If you would like to talk to us, please get in touch at:

 

[email protected]

02072785052

 

Thanks very much,

 

Simon

[IdaInFife]

I have never had any problems with paypal.

 

If you are sending high value items to people who do not have a verified paypal address then really should take another form of payment.

 

As you have went trhough with this transaction you have then bypassed the seller protection programme.

 

re pebs: you could have taken the coat to your local trading standards office, if it was fake, they would give you written confirmation for paypal.

 

 

 

Idax

[blinking_idiot]

Dear all,

Cheers for the above.

 

Pebs - if you need someone to say "it's not designer" on paper, go in looking as if you intend to buy. With a journalist.... Most stores will cooperate for copy! Or, as IdaInFife reasonably suggests, try the Trading Standards folk. (Who are always interested in one odd sale as it is so rarely just the one...) It's very odd for Paypal to back the seller in this way - they certainly didn't back me!

 

Electron99 - I'm with you all the way, out of hindsight - I attributed a lack of accredited address to the buyer being in the sticks of the EU & a bit light on some of the answers to Paypal's penetrating "we want to know where you live" questions.

 

IdaInFife - they've been offering me PowerSeller status - I've had a lot of adequate experiences with Paypal which is why I'm so struck amidships by this one. If you look at the small print of the Seller Protection Programme (as I did, too late) you may notice that it's all on a computer rather than printed anywhere & therefore open to manipulation depending on the researchers known track record to Paypal. That may sound totally paranoid, but I wrote code for a living a bit back & wrote pages with switches set by cookie information - essentially a brand new client saw a slightly different page to a returning one.

 

Carriep - if it all gets nasty, I may take you up on that. To be honest I'm more than a little uneasy at you shopping for TV stories here. I was an idiot, yes, greedy for the cash before Christmas, yes, but willing to cop to that on national TV? Rather a lot more No. Why not pm (I think it stands for privately mail) Pebs whose need is as great as mine but who hasn't got an Ombudsman in play?

The reason I've not flagged your email as "Moderators please hunt down & read riot act" is because of what happened below...

 

I am most surprised.

 

I walked into my local cop shop, explained who I was & why I was there, to be told "we don't do Paypal". "It's between yourself, Paypal & the third party." Not even "it's a civil issue", just a wholesale blanket "we don't".

 

So A.N.Other Paypal client has had their ID nicked, bought off eBay off me, had their account debited, groused & had it credited again - with my money, and Paypal took their percentage fee for the transaction from me twice.

 

If I were in Luxembourg I'd be laughing various curves of my anatomy off now.

 

I'm £400 down and have been for the last 3 months. Paypal have had a firm letter from the Ombudsman - I've had a couple of automated "resolve your balance" emails & a debt collector. Still no letter, a week later. I'll bet the nicely spoken chap would have accepted my debit or credit card details forthwith - just as well he didn't ask for them. Perhaps I demanded everything in writing a little too soon for his script.

Paypal have resolved this sort of cockup before. Even paypalsucks has to admit that. Just you can't hurry them, or the Ombudsman, as there is no criminal or seemingly even civil criminal cosh to speed things along.

 

Any words of comfort from anyone who has been seen right? Or are you all creatures of myth (possibly & Luxembourg spin?!) I know very few winners bother to post after the battle's won - they reasonably collapse on their laurels, get soused on the nectar and ambrosia [hot or cold custard, out of curiosity?] & leave writing their memoirs for a few decades or until they can find a slave who is nifty enough with a stylus to take dictation. Any reassurance that "it does happen" (even if it does take 17 years) would be appreciated!

 

If nothing else the ire this generates has restored circulation to my toes. (Up in the North [as apparently North Manchester is] the weather is capricious & currently dashed cold.

 

BREAKING NEWS 14:26 01/02/2008

Another call from Paypal's collection goons, this time so well briefed they didn't twig I was the seller. Quality service from a young Liverpudlian male. To his credit he was surprised the local coppers "don't do Paypal" either & it's been put on hold to give me time to find a more interested in Fraud type copper. (I did gather from signs that they've had a rush of reports just to get a crime reference number for (fraudulent) insurance reasons and are not cooperating with this, but I feel they may have miscategorised Paypal somewhat.)

 

Bother. Feeling has returned to my toes, along with circulation. Ow. Ow. Ow.

 

Suggestions as to what to do to protect myself from a debt collector who has my name and address but frighteningly little guidance from on high?

 

Other than offers to make a Public Blinking_Idiot of myself?!

 

Cheers all

blinking _idiot

Barclays settled in full 30/04/07

Lloyds TSB settled in full 12/04/2007

[IdaInFife]

Hiya,

 

 

All police stations should have or access too an internet fraud division and this is what you have had. I wouldn't have left the station until I got a crime reference number.

 

Whoever spoke to you at the police station was wrong.

 

I don't think there is much that tehy could do as they address was overseas but I do beleive if there are a number of people whoc make claims against a certain individual then they do try to take action.

 

 

Idax

[noomill060]

idiot- I would take carrieps up on their offer if I were you.

 

Paypal wont want any bad publicity in the national media if they can help it, and may reimburse your loss as a goodwill gesture.

[noomill060]

Dont forget to come back and tell us how you get on.

[blinking_idiot]

Let the moderators change the title of this thread to Paypal Reversal - Settled!

After some time with with Financial Ombudsman, Paypal appear to have settled the situation as a good will gesture.

So, whether or not you can find an Internet Fraud police officer, you can find the ombudsman at www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

Most CAG posters seem to have limited time for these folks - not least since taking the legal route is clear and direct (well, will be again once the test case is settled) but where Paypal are concerned, the Ombudsman may be the best bet.

Download their .pdf file, post it off & let them work at their pace.

It worked for me. (Over three months, and fielding two calls from scary dsebt collection people.) It cost me nothing other than a stamp [majorly cheaper than www.moneyclaim.gov.uk !]. Once they had my signature, we managed the rest by email.

So, good luck! And, er, I wouldn't recommend shipping to an unverified address even if you really want the money. One hard won lesson ought to be enough?!

A now solvent & slightly wiser,

blinking _idiot

Barclays settled in full 30/04/2007

Lloyds TSB settled in full 12/04/2007

Paypal reversal refunded 03/02/2008

[noomill060]

Excellent news idiot- I hope you also update your ebay P&P forum thread on this subject.

 

This will come as welcome news.

 

Well done.

[noomill060]

Now- if you want some vengeance, go after those DCAs with a harassment claim.