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    • Welcome to the National Consumer Service Buying any goods or any services??? A used car? - Paying by cash or bank transfer??? - BIG Fail!Share the love – Tell a friend about the Consumer Action Group - your National Consumer ServiceAre you buying a used car...? Protect yourself – read our used car guideESSENTIAL:: Read our Customer Services Guide!!!Twitter - Why you should open a Twitter account ESSENTIAL:: Read our Customer Services Guide!!!Have we helped you today...? Please help the CAG Had a car accident? Been offered a courtesy car?Follow @Real_CAG Parcel Delivery Insurance is Unlawful - The TimesWhy don't you change your profile picture?? Problem with utilities company or phone/broadband? Begin by sending a statutory request for your personal data. It’s free    Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.× Financial Legal Issues Complete My Profile Dismiss Next Step: Profile Photo (Profile Photo and Cover Photo) Your profile is 0% complete! Twitter X - Include the @company's twitter name in your post title – here's why… The UK Stands With Ukraine - 'Slava Ukraini' Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.  You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do Rate this topic By citizenB March 4, 2014 in Financial Legal Issues style="text-align: center;">     Thread Locked because no one has posted on it for the last 3638 days. If you need to add something to this thread then   Please click the "Report " link   at the bottom of one of the posts.   If you want to post a new story then Please Start your own new thread That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help    Thanks   citizenB Posted March 4, 2014 #1   The questionnaires below provide important information which will allow us to help you. In order to use them, you will have to copy them into your own post and then give us the answers – preferably in red below each question. You can start by overwriting the prompt: "Give answer here" below each question – and your responses should automatically appear in red   Thank you +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   You have received a claim form.   firstly - read all the posts in this thread FIRST...   then copy this first msg to your thread - and put your answer after each question   In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us]     Which Court have you received the claim from ? Name County Court   MCOL Northampton N1 ? Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ? New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK ?   If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)     Name of the Claimant ? Give answer here   How many defendant's  joint or self ? Give answer here   Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. Give answer here   ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total   Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total)  if your defence filing date falls on a W/End, you must file by friday @4PM     Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. state how many digits the account number has.. Give answer here   What is the total value of the claim? Give answer here   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Give answer here   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Give answer here   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? Give answer here Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Give answer here   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Give answer here   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Give answer here   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Give answer here   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Give answer here   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Give answer here   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Give answer here   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Give answer here   Why did you cease payments? Give answer here   What was the date of your last payment? Give answer here   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Give answer here   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Give answer here   What you need to do now.   Answer the questions above   If you have not already done so – send a CCA request to the claimant for a copy of your agreement (If Applicable) (except for Overdraft/ Mobile/Telephone accounts)   Send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitor named on the claim form for copies of documents mentioned/implied within the claim form. There are two different versions - one for Loans/Credit cards the other for Current accounts   Request 1 - Loans/Credit Cards     Request 2 - Current Accounts     You may use a CPR part 18 request for any other information (not request documents) that you might require in order to defend yourself. Please note that CPR 18 is specifically for Fast Track claims and although technically the claim has yet to be allocated to a track the claimant may refuse to comply for this reason.   If you require CPR Part 18 - this will need to be drafted specifically.   If you are not planning on defending for one reason or another – then you will need to complete an Income and Expenditure form and contact the Solicitor with your proposal. The N9a is already enclosed in the claim pack for Admittance which should be sent to the solicitor named on the claim form   If you are considering making a partial admittance N9b must be completed and returned to the court. Please note in most cases a partial admittance will result in an automatic CCJ for the amount admitted.   You have received a Claim - What you need to do.pdf1.33 MB · 242 downloads     Before Printing the PDF TIP   If you DO NOT wish to print Page 1 (Cover Page) of the PDF, please ensure to do the following:   Ensure you go to your Printer Settings and set it to 'Print from Page 2' (this way Page 1 (Cover Page) should not print out).   Note: This will save you Ink & Paper     Bookmark   Report 3 weeks later...   AndyOrch Posted March 20, 2014 #2   Once you receive a Court Summons N1   As a defendant in a small claims case it is important that you act quickly and do not ignore the claim form when it arrives. Remember, the claim will proceed anyway even if you don’t respond. If the claim goes against you, it will be very difficult to make a counter claim as you didn’t respond to the initial small claim.   You may be unaware that you are the defendant in a small claims case that a Creditor has bought against you. When the small claims form arrives follow these initial steps:   1: Read the Form Carefully   The detail about the claim that is being bought against you will be in the ‘particulars of claim’ section. If this section isn't completed, or has the words ‘particulars of claim to follow’ take no action now and wait until you are sent details of the claim against you. You may want to consult a lawyer at this stage.   2: Respond in Time   It’s vitally important that you respond to the claim for you have been sent. Remember that there is a 19 day (5 +14) time limit on this to acknowledge the claim.You must submit before the 19 days are up, so post your response with plenty of time.If your intention is to defend the claim in full you get a further 14 days to submit your response ...so 33 days in total.   3: Talk to the Claimant   Just because a small claim has been bought against you and a claim form issued, this doesn’t mean you are not allowed to contact the claimant directly. In fact the court encourages you to try and settle the claim without the need for a court appearance. So, try and resolve your dispute directly with the claimant if you can.   Not Responding to a Small Claim   If you ignore the small claims form when it arrives this can have an adverse impact on your financial status. The court will continue with the small claims lawsuit that is being bought against you even in your absence as this is a legal requirement. When the small claim is processed you will be sent a bill showing the amount you owe and any additional costs. The small claims against you is a legal process that will be recorded on the Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines. This information is used to check your credit, so could have a negative impact when you next apply for any credit. To avoid damaging your credit rating reply to your small claims docket as soon as you can.   How to Respond to Your Small Claims Form   When you received your form from the court you will also have been sent a response pack. In this pack you will see the option that are open to you. These include:   • A dispute claim form. You can use this form if you do not agree that you are liable for the small claim being bought against you and wish to submit a Defence. • Details about how to pay the amount being claimed from you. • Details about how to admit to part of the small claim against you, and how you can ask the claimant for more time to pay.   There are Two Types of Small Claims:   Fixed Amounts:   If the claim against you is for a fixed amount of money your response pack will contain three forms. Form N9 (acknowledgement of Service), form N9A (admission form) and N9B (defence and counterclaim form).   Unspecified Amounts:   If the amount being claimed is unspecified you will be sent forms N9 and N9C (admission form) and N9D (defence and counterclaim form). It is vital that you read the accompanying explanatory notes before choosing which form to send back.   Paying the Small Claim   If you want to make full payment of the amount being claimed against you this amount will be shown on the claim for you have been sent, and will also have details about where to send the money. Don’t forget, this must be done within the 14 day time limit or your case will proceed to the next stage.   In some instances you would like to pay, but need more time, you can give details about the delay you would like on form N9A, which should be in your response pack. It’s also a good idea to read leaflet EX309: The Defendant Admits by claim as this gives more details on this aspect of your case when fixed amounts of money are involved. Leaflet EX308 gives details of cases when unspecified amounts are being claimed against you.   Also please read forms EX326 and EX160A   How to Defend a Claim Against You   Disputed claims are handled by filling in the appropriate form from your response pack. You have three choices: Form N9, N9B or N9D. Read the note accompanying each form carefully to ensure you completely correctly. Pay special attention to the allegations raised on the form. If you don’t respond to each the court will assume you are admitting guilt. Edited April 10, 2014 by stu007 Updated PDF added    1   Bookmark   Report 2 months later...   citizenB   Posted June 5, 2014 #3   PLEASE NOTE - WARNING   Once you have received your claim form - the Court timetable comes into force. Not that of the creditor or claimant. If you have requested information with them after the claim has been issued - or have entered into discussion with them and they say something like "We will put this on hold for a period of time". You cannot and must not ignore the timetable from the court.   This thread should serve as an example   http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?416202&p=4547677#post4547677   The OP in the case above was in communication with the CAG Vodafone rep. A claim was issued during this time. The Rep in good faith said he would ask the Claimant to put things on hold.... they did not.. the OP ignored advice from caggers to continue with the court timetable and did not submit a defence. The claimaint obtained a Judgment by default. Edited June 5, 2014 by citizenB     Bookmark   Report 3 yr AndyOrch changed the title to You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do   style="text-align: center;">     Thread Locked because no one has posted on it for the last 3638 days. If you need to add something to this thread then   Please click the "Report " link   at the bottom of one of the posts.   If you want to post a new story then Please Start your own new thread That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help    Thanks  This topic is now closed to further replies.  Share Follow3 Go to topic listing Next unread topic Recently Browsing   1 Cagger hugo1963 1,380 Members Viewed hugo1963 4 minutes ago   lolerz 4 hours ago   vicr76 8 hours ago   Moomoo11 Friday at 18:18   London1971 Friday at 11:26   AndyOrch Friday at 11:13   mollie5549 Thursday at 17:21   zyghom Thursday at 13:26   Magnusinfinity May 15   Newdogg06 May 14   Unique May 13   saberguy May 12   Mycathasfleas May 12   WantJustice May 9   Rain clouds May 8   MoltoModerato May 3   George2024 May 1   Badtimes123 April 30   LouLouDev79 April 29   northmonk April 29   mowbli April 29   WornOut55 April 27   paulhn757 April 24   UsedCarMan April 23   robertobaggio April 23   marksheff April 20   anotheruser0000 April 19   TT98 April 18   gatoradeqaz April 17   Murielme2 April 15   Frontera mixup April 11   BreadAndButter April 9   Karalius April 9   nurjeon03 April 9   Penglings April 8   Nick April 8   Edals April 5   thesixco April 1   lifttheveil March 30   dx100uk March 30   Stripeycat March 28   jon8214 March 27   sharkieuk March 25   HappyHolidays March 24   sandokan March 22   SimplyBeyondWords March 22   supernick90 March 20   iyam71 March 20   Nicky Boy March 18   StoryBoard March 18   Myth_007 March 15   kaze March 12   RodeMan March 8   eskimo123 March 7   JEDIKNIGHTS March 6   persha50 March 6   tobzas March 6   lancashirelad93 March 6   HappyDay2222 March 3   1penny March 3   nat8808 March 2   FTMDave March 1   lynzmeek February 25   Mike Mechanic February 25   Ethel Street February 24   Outoftoon February 23   anna may February 22   PJB5 February 22   iamgnome February 21   SweetCaroline February 20   EdinburghDude February 19   Grgw44 February 18   linbren03 February 15   whittymags February 9   flembo45 February 7   comebackjimmy February 6   MontyIsInnocent February 4   libra007 February 1   Eamonn77 January 31   xtonehari January 30   hlh49421 January 30   ceeferace January 29   catscratch January 29   Melbel January 25   Suggababe January 19   yorkshire_lufc January 17   ljrobinson69 January 16   makkyinuk January 15   yogii January 14   MadMat January 12   rocky_sharma January 4   mrskippy21 January 3   lookinforinfo December 29, 2023   europa16 December 28, 2023   MrsSl December 27, 2023   KP44UK December 23, 2023   Montego December 22, 2023   Worazz December 21, 2023   StopTheBullies December 21, 2023   hitman126 December 20, 2023   +1280 More   Have we helped you ...?                     Contact Us   Cookies Copyright Reclaim the Right Ltd - reg: 05783665Powered by Invision Community IPS spam blocked by CleanTalk.  
    • ITV News have got hold of an email and recording of a phone call between Vennells and Ron Warmington of Second Sight. People in the know are saying it's smoking gun everyone's been looking for. I love that this has come out the day before she appears at the inquiry. This should be interesting under oath. Paula Vennells' 'smoking gun' email reveals Post Office 'cover-up' | ITV News WWW.ITV.COM ITV News has acquired an email and recording of a phone call that suggests the former Post Office boss was aware of issues with the Horizon system...  
    • I think you may as well take the opportunity in your letter to tell them that if they won't take responsibility for it then you will see quotations for the repair, provide copies of the quotations to them and then proceed with your own repair and recover the money back from them in the courts if necessary. Separately, can I ask you whether this is the car that you then bought unseen and at some distance from you? Has it come with an MOT and if so what date was the MOT and who gave it the MOT? Have you read our used car guide
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ISP's releasing personal information - re Davenport Lyons


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Thanks for that, Conniff. I had a bit of a rant another internet forum, so they will probably try to sue me for libel as well! I had a real go at them.

 

This has got me so angry. I've calmed down now, although that could be due to sleep deprivation and low blood sugar. How do these people sleep at nights? Is this what they went to law school to do?

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Of course it's what they trained for, money nothing else, just money. Why would anyone defend someone of a gross crime knowing they had committed that crime - money.

 

You could ask them to justify the amount, I think you are entitled to that at least, not some sum plucked out of the air.

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  • 2 months later...

I received a letter the other day saying I had downloaded a cd. It turns out my 11 year old daughter had done it, after her friends had told her how to and teased for not doing so already (isn't peer pressure wonderful).

 

Going on this I presume it's my responsibility and I have to pay the 'fine'. If this is the case there will be a grounded 11 year old without a computer.

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I received a letter the other day saying I had downloaded a cd. It turns out my 11 year old daughter had done it, after her friends had told her how to and teased for not doing so already (isn't peer pressure wonderful).

 

Going on this I presume it's my responsibility and I have to pay the 'fine'. If this is the case there will be a grounded 11 year old without a computer.

 

Hi, SBF.

 

As you indicate the 'fine' they mention is no such thing. They are asking for a massive amount when it comes to a single album or single. The reality is they have no place in setting damages - the only person with that power is a judge.

 

As you admit to doing what they accuse you of it might be an idea to send them a cheque for the sum of the album and leave it at that.

 

There is some advice on how to handle yourself over at Slyck forums and other sites.

Edited by jonni2bad
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Hi, SBF.

 

As you indicate the 'fine' they mention is no such thing. They are asking for a massive amount when it comes to a single album or single. The reality is they have no place in setting damages - the only person with that power is a judge.

 

As you admit to doing what they accuse you of it might be an idea to send them a cheque for the sum of the album and leave it at that.

 

There is some advice on how to handle yourself over at Slyck forums and other sites.

 

Penumbra

 

Thanks. I'll have a look. My wife is going to take legal advice today, I'll let you know how she gets on.

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Or you could ground your daughter anyway and tell D/L to prove their case before they try to divest you of a considerable sum of money to which it would seem they have little right. They can only retrieve from you their actual loss, so even if your daughter (not you, your daughter!) had actually d/l the album, how much does a CD cost these day? £10? That would be the maximum amount you should be paying.

 

However, it gets trickier in that these people have little respect for the law they purport to uphold and if you show a sign of weakness (admitting that your daughter did it) then they'll hound you for a lot more.

 

The fact is they accused YOU of d/l the album, and YOU have done no such thing, so my advice would be a firm "I didn't, it is YOUR responsability to prove that *I* did such a thing in court, so see you there and we'll see who the judge believes."

 

As for peer pressure, if that's the worse thing she does because her mates did it, then you'll be very lucky. :-|

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Or you could ground your daughter anyway and tell D/L to prove their case before they try to divest you of a considerable sum of money to which it would seem they have little right. They can only retrieve from you their actual loss, so even if your daughter (not you, your daughter!) had actually d/l the album, how much does a CD cost these day? £10? That would be the maximum amount you should be paying.

 

However, it gets trickier in that these people have little respect for the law they purport to uphold and if you show a sign of weakness (admitting that your daughter did it) then they'll hound you for a lot more.

 

The fact is they accused YOU of d/l the album, and YOU have done no such thing, so my advice would be a firm "I didn't, it is YOUR responsability to prove that *I* did such a thing in court, so see you there and we'll see who the judge believes."

 

As for peer pressure, if that's the worse thing she does because her mates did it, then you'll be very lucky. :-|

 

thats what my solicitor has told me. he wrote a letter to that effect to them asking THEM to provide evidence that my father downloaded this album.

 

No doubt they will twist it and put it back on us. we will not be paying for something we didnt do just because they say so.

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Couldn't get an appointment until next Monday. I'll let you know how we get on.

 

I'll be bringing up the fact they only give you 21 days to reply. Trying to panic and pressurise people into paying. DL wouldn't do that would they?

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Couldn't get an appointment until next Monday. I'll let you know how we get on.

 

I'll be bringing up the fact they only give you 21 days to reply. Trying to panic and pressurise people into paying. DL wouldn't do that would they?

lol it seems they are doing that to everyone and trying to bully people into paying for something 'because they said so'.

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I CONFIRM HAVING RETURNED MY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF SERVICE TO YOURSELVES JOINTLY TO I NOW NOW ASK ONE LAST TIME FOR YOU TO MAKE A FORMAL APOLOGY ,YOU SHALL ALSO AGREE TO OUR COSTS IN CLEARING MY NAME FURTHERMORE DURING THE TIME I HAVE MY COMPUTER TESTED BY AN INDEPENDENT COMPUTER FORENSIC SPECIALIST WITH REGARDS TO YOUR ACCUSATIONS AND ALL COSTS INVOLVED SHALL BE CHARGED TO YOUR COMPANY

 

DAVENPORT LYONS SOLICITORS

30 Old Burlington Street

London

W1S 3NL

Edited by patrickq1
FEW MISTAKES NEED TO EDIT
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After doing much research on the web I have come across a solicitor who takes up cases of people who have received this letter for a small fee (1/10th of the demanded costs). He used to do it for free but he is so inundated that he now has extra staff to deal with it and therefore must make a small charge (apparently).

 

I instructed this solicitor to reply on my behalf and have heard nothing since. His letter instructs Davenport Lyons to send all future correspondence to him and not to contact me directly.

 

I was asked if I 'Knowingly' download the file (which i did not) and what DL's proof was. (just my network IP address).

 

The letter sent to DL on my behalf states case law regarding wireless network security etc, as well as my mitigation.

 

Not sure of the correct procedures on the forum for this but I do have this solicitors name and address for anyone who wants it.

MODS: delete if necessary and please accept my apology if i have any broken any rules in my post. I have read the rules - most of em :oops:

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Took legal advice on Monday. The first thing he asked was I have checked the IP ADDRESS is mine (doh). He said the letter was a standard pre littigation letter.

 

When I got home, I checked and it wasn't. However he is also going back with same correspondence as toxicdebt's solicitor.

 

I'll let you know if we get a reply from DL.

 

I would recommend anybody who gets one of these letters contacts a Solicitor (moreso toxicdebt's). Better to pay a percentage than the full amount.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've just had a quick trawl through this thread. I'm not sure that I agree with all the advice set out. one or two of my thoughts:

 

1/ on an economic basis they are less likely to pursue a non-communicating party than one who engages in correspondence. take care in not responding to registered or recorded mail however.

 

2/ lack of funds does not seem to be a deterrent. save your hard luck stories as they are irrelevant to the legal assessment of the merits of the case. these cases are, after all, primarily deterrents rather than money-making exercises.

 

3/ set out your defence clearly at an early stage once you have been engaged in correspondence. ideally you are trying to make your case a difficult one for them to prove: perhaps they will not issue on your file and choose an easier target. defences with some prospect of success include: multiple persons with access to a home computer; insecure wireless network; dispute that copyrighted material present on home PC - which could be backe up with an offer of access for examination of the computer. there may be a basis for technical disputes in respect of IP masquerading/ allocation but I am not sufficiently tech savvy to comment on these points.

 

4/ dispute the basis of the assessment of loss. suggestions that loss is limited to purchase cost are simply wrong: the correct basis for an IP claim is loss of profit. all these cases arise from dispute the implied assertion that one download = one lost sale. request proof that you personally uploaded material to others apart from the p2p tracker employed by the applicant.

 

5/ try to ensure that the matter is allocated to the small claims track. this is the normal track for cases in which the subject matter is less than £5,000. Interestingly in the Barwinski case the damages claimed were some £6,000 - which cynically I would suggest was not coincidental. This is important: the costs in that case were approximately £10,000 - significantly more than the damages.

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1/ on an economic basis they are less likely to pursue a non-communicating party than one who engages in correspondence. take care in not responding to registered or recorded mail however.

I can answer this from experience...

 

If you reply directly to them they send another letter with the compensation charges doubled telling you that this will be the last letter sent before court action proceeds. (Something the SRA are now investigating this is bad practice).

 

If you don't reply, they wait for the 21 days to pass then send you another letter with the amount of compensation demanded doubled.

 

The letters do not come recorded, just in the normal post.

 

The letter informs the defendant that they will take civil action in court. It does not give the opportunity to opt for small claims. Not sure if one could force them to.

 

In my case only a letter from a solicitor - the one who appeared on BBC Watchdog made it go away (I was wrongly accused by the way)

 

Also remember the one case they won was not answered nor contested in court.

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What happens if your computer had been infected and being used to store [Warez] I.E Someone had exploited a service on your machine and was able to gain a terminal to which they installed a command line p2p client/server and was using your computer as a storehouse, would microsoft not be partly to blame for not releasing a patch for the service etc that had been exploited and how can they prove that you wasnt infected? I guess they would request some kind of proof but you have already formated your computer as no Anti Virus as of yet was able to detect the Exploit and you wasnt prepared to leave your computer infected.

 

How did you tell that you was infected when your Anti Virus didnt detect anything ? you read an article on the internet that taught you how to close all applications that use the internet and then how to open a command prompt and type netstat -n to view open connections which revealed a continues connection all day to a certain IP Address.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lol yeah I work as a IT systems specialist you could always just encrypt the drive with a lengthy key but the law has made it that if you dont provide the encryption password automatic jail without passing go, although createing partitions and formating the partition then deleting it again recurring will do the trick another method is to just say you use Linux on a Live CD as this only loads into your RAM no need for a harddrive so how could you of stored anything :shock:

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  • 1 year later...

Well 2 years on we know its a [problem] called speculative invoicing. You can safely just ignore the letters as they have never taken anyone to court as they can't prove it was you so cannot be sure of winning.

The more you engage them the more they will bully you. Just chuck the letter in the bin and forget them.

For every 100 letters they send out they hope at least 1/3 will be scared into paying and thats how it works.

Look whats happened to ACS now LOL.

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This thread was started with the concerns of the ISP's releasing personal info to Davenport Lyons... seems them concerns were well justified!

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Well 2 years on we know its a [problem] called speculative invoicing. You can safely just ignore the letters as they have never taken anyone to court as they can't prove it was you so cannot be sure of winning.

The more you engage them the more they will bully you. Just chuck the letter in the bin and forget them.

For every 100 letters they send out they hope at least 1/3 will be scared into paying and thats how it works.

Look whats happened to ACS now LOL.

 

 

According to ACS's figures (now released to the known Universe :))it is somwhat less than a third who pay up and even then, some its only partial or maybe in installments.

 

Andy

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