Benefit Cheats

[Justforfun]

yes it does sicken me that two or three peeps around this area seem to get everything ie sky broadband big tellys and yet i have been always cautious with spending till my illness,my SPECIALIST SURGEON is awaiting my DWP DOCTORS REPORTS under the Freedom of Information Act act,as he put it are these people i seen doctors,he has already written a report concerning my health to the DWP ,they in turn are not sending the DOCTORS REPORTS and beleive it or not even refused information to be given to my MP...so i can say yes i am angry but this week i began the complaint against them to ICE and also to the Information Commissioners Office ,as they are now 72 in breach of the act ,so i expect a result from them soon

patrickq1

 

I hope it all works out for you

[JonCris]

Interesting article,but Joncris what about those who are working full time and claiming benefits,such as the articles that have been shown in earlier posts..do you support these people:confused:

 

Clearly you haven't read the article.

 

It states that those often charged with benefit fraud have not defrauded the Exchequer in a true sense in that the benefit they have claimed has been less than that they would have been entitled to had they claimed the correct benefit

[Guest louis wu]

For everyone, not just paragons or open minded people. I found it interesting, although as it was copied off the net, and writen by someone else, I cannot vouch for it's accuracy, but isn't that true of many quotes.

 

 

 

(from the bbc web site 2005)

 

Little progress has been made in cracking down on benefit fraud and error, a spending watchdog has said.

 

The National Audit Office (NAO) found that about £3bn or 2.8% of overall spending on benefits and job programmes was lost to fraud and error in 2003/4.

Figures show the same amount was lost in the two previous years.

The Commons' Public Accounts Committee will question officials from the Department for Work and Pensions in March about the report's findings.

Still too high

Sir John Born, auditor general and comptroller, acknowledged that fraud and error had fallen but he said that overall the level was still too high.

"The challenges the Department faces in reducing the scale of fraud and error across the benefit system to an acceptable level still remain very large indeed," Sir John said.

He added that this was the 15th year in a row he had "qualified" the accounts of the DWP and its predecessor, the Department of Social Security.

Qualifying the accounts is an accounting term, which refers to the fact that a significant sum of money has been used for purposes that "Parliament did not intend".

Sir John has previously said that he would give the DWP's accounts a clean bill of health if it reduced benefit fraud to 1% or £1bn of expenditure.

Benefit flood

The DWP spends £109bn on benefits and employment programmes each year.

Income Support and Jobseeker's Allowance as well as Housing Benefit are most at risk of fraud and error, the NAO said.

Fraud and error in Income Support and Jobseeker's Allowance costs taxpayers £840m or 6.4% of expenditure, down from £920m in the previous year.

Fraud and error in payments of Housing Benefit, which is paid by local authorities but administered by the DWP, cost £650m or 5.3% of total spending.

Edward Leigh MP, chairman of the House of Commons' Public Accounts Committee, said the DWP had made some progress on benefit fraud.

"The flood of benefit money being lost as a result of fraud and error is not abating...the fact remains that an annual overall loss of £3bn is a grievous waste of public resources," he said.

Since 1998, more than £1bn of taxpayers' money has been saved by improvements in procedures, a spokesman for the DWP said. "Much is being done to tackle official error levels. The incidence of error is continuously monitored and improvement targets are set," the department said in a statement.

[Guest louis wu]

For Priorityone.

 

An Italian case, reported here in UK

 

Husband of Tessa Jowell faces trial for Italian tax evasion - Britain - Times Online

[Justforfun]

Clearly you haven't read the article.

 

It states that those often charged with benefit fraud have not defrauded the Exchequer in a true sense in that the benefit they have claimed has been less than that they would have been entitled to had they claimed the correct benefit

And clearly you haven't read the other articles,mmm owning a property and claiming housing benefits..explain that one to me Joncris.

 

Andrea Anderson of Hoe Lane, EN3.

She failed to declare she was employed at Argos.

Value of fraud £4,695.06 (HB/CTB) and £24,262.76 (Income Support)

Case heard on 20th September 2007 at Wood Green Crown Court.

Penalty – 12 months imprisonment suspended for 2 years, 40 hours community punishment and £200 costs.

 

And you say these people are mis guided i think not,obviously there are some needy cases, but the above is plain and simple greed.

perhaps you Joncris should take a look at P1's statements and look at the bigger picture.

It was on t.v. this week how people are making a living out of screwing the system,it was on gmtv i believe when the reporter questioned cameron over his new ways of making people on incapacity get penalised for their illness (which i think stinks) but then the reporter continued to make it public knowledge of how individuals make a living out of benefit fraud.

[patrickq1]

And clearly you haven't read the other articles,mmm owning a property and claiming housing benefits..explain that one to me Joncris

i own my own property ,i am ill,i do not get housing benefit,how can i get that or how on earth can peeps manage to get it unless the benifits officers are too lazy to check the details ,

i have a hearing aid and only 21% hearing left because of a degenitive problem in my left ear within ten years i will be totally deaf..i am deaf in my right ear from birth..

when i tried to claim incapacity benefit last year they gave me a phoneline in the benifits office ,just how stupid can they be,even after i explained to her i was deaf and did not have my adapter for the phone she asked me to come back the next day....muppet

[Justforfun]

And clearly you haven't read the other articles,mmm owning a property and claiming housing benefits..explain that one to me Joncris

i own my own property ,i am ill,i do not get housing benefit,how can i get that or how on earth can peeps manage to get it unless the benifits officers are too lazy to check the details ,

i have a hearing aid and only 21% hearing left because of a degenitive problem in my left ear within ten years i will be totally deaf..i am deaf in my right ear from birth..

when i tried to claim incapacity benefit last year they gave me a phoneline in the benifits office ,just how stupid can they be,even after i explained to her i was deaf and did not have my adapter for the phone she asked me to come back the next day....muppet

 

Yes Patrick i agree with you,by being honest you are penalised,but Joncris is just using the presentation of the article to convince people they are doing no wrong,below once again is another example of sheer greed..it's no wonder SMF chose to leave this site,he brings up a taboo subject and well read the posts from certain people,it says it all.

And yes i do know SMF and he is doing fine..

Carol Lewis of Alma Road, EN3.

She claimed housing benefit for a house she had actually purchased.

Value of fraud £28,086.90.

Case heard on 14th August 2007 at Wood Green Crown Court.

Penalty – 6 months imprisonment suspended for 1 year, 200 hours community punishment and £1,000 costs.

[JonCris]

I am not using the article to claim those who defraud the system are doing no wrong. What I am doing however is to point out that many so called benefit cheats have not in fact defrauded the Exchequer in that they have not received sums of money greater than they would have been entitled to anyway had they claimed the correct benefits.

 

Also there is often some entitlement which may be less than that claimed but which should be offset against the total sum claimed thereby giving a much more truer picture of the amounts defrauded.

 

The amount that goes unclaimed far exceeds the amount claimed by benefit cheats but it makes good copy to claim otherwise. In addition it helps politicians obtain much need publicity - as if, in view of the present shenanigans, politicians are to be trusted as arbiters of the public purse

[Justforfun]

What I am doing however is to point out that many so called benefit cheats have not in fact defrauded the Exchequer in that they have not received sums of money greater than they would have been entitled to anyway had they claimed the correct benefits.

You have just hit the nail on the head,HAD they claimed the correct benefits,and HAD they claimed or APPLIED or even ASKED how to claim the correct benefits they would not have been caught in the first place.

Would you drive a car without a insurance,and if you had no insurance and were involved in an accident HAD you applied for insurance you would not be in court.

Lets be honest Joncris how many people caught could actually say i did coz i applied for certain benefits and i was turned down..

[JonCris]

Whats car insurance got to do with it.

 

Are you saying they are guilty because they THOUGHT the were cheating the system even though they aren't

 

That's the same as saying because I THOUGHT I was speeding, mistakenly as it happens, then I was

[Justforfun]

Far from it JonCris, i'm stating that if they can't be bothered to apply for benefits in the first place such as tax credits etc,when they are working and still claiming benefits then they only have their selves to blame.

When you sign off to start a job,you are made aware of the entitlements available to you, or was i the only in this country that was:confused:

[Justforfun]

Are you saying they are guilty because they THOUGHT the were cheating the system even though they aren't

Carol Lewis of Alma Road, EN3.

She claimed housing benefit for a house she had actually purchased.

Value of fraud £28,086.90.

Case heard on 14th August 2007 at Wood Green Crown Court.

Penalty – 6 months imprisonment suspended for 1 year, 200 hours community punishment and £1,000 costs.

 

Explain to me how she ain't cheating the system

[Justforfun]

Or even better explain this one

 

Marcia Wright of Solomon Avenue, N9.

Failed to declare her employment with MCRX Ltd.

Value of fraud £6,832.93 (HB/CTB) and £5,902.03 (Incapacity Benefit).

Case heard on 5th July 2007 at Enfield Magistrates.

Penalty – 18 month community order.

 

 

 

Mmm i cant work because i'm on incapacity Benefit,but stuff it i'm gonna work anyway

 

your words JonCris

benefit cheats' is often just that - hype & claimants are being prosecuted simply for claiming the wrong benefit & have not cost the Exchequer, which includes you & I, a single penny more than they would have in the normal course of events

 

well the tax payer paid for this one..

I'm not being vindictive JonCris,But SMF left this site coz of the negative views that were thrown at him,He has his own group starting up in the next few months which has already attracted many supporters arising from this thread,myself being one of them.

[patrickq1]

i understand what john is saying and what i meant to say was the imcompetence of the staff at the DWP ,who after all should be looking after our intrests and to help us through by advising us what is and isnt correct,i have obviously been badly looked after by the DWP,they seem to expect me to know what i am in need of they do not help if they did we would have no need for independant companies who are benifit advisors in helping you get the right benefits,all i have seen is obsticle put in my way of claiming benefits,i have lost out on 3 years insurance stamps because they did not tell me what i am entitled to,it does not help when you nit pick on someones comments who is as i see it just trying to be as helpfull as they see it,i am at the point where i have now asked my mp to act against the dwp who are now in breach of the freedom of information act i have reported them and asked for an independant audit of this dept concerning my case ,i do not mind the all works test and to clarify one point and that is with my deafness this was not why i made my claim for benefits,but the all works test doctor (if he was a doctor)made a comment that he whispered to me from accross the room and i heard him perfectly ,this is impossible as i have to lip read something i learnt from my mother who was totally deaf as is the same with my first born child,so one thing just a simple lie has really got me going,now i have demanded all reports from sima doctors or should i say phillips electronics who are the parent company...so every little lie does not help people in need..and i cannot blame some of the peeps who cheat the system,i could nt do it because it is not in my charactor to commit such an act i have been after my all works rest reports for the last four tests because i beleive their have been false reporting entered into my reports and i want to see the Head of this branch severely repremanded as it has become very very personal

patrickq1

[make them aktiv runners]

Patickq1, you need to be careful not to inadvertingly give a false impression. Obviously you are certain that you cannot hear a whisper but your lip reading talents could mean that you "appear" to have heard. I am not in any way knocking you, just make sure that for any tests you do not look at anyone.

 

Yes, I do agree that it it more difficult for the genuine cases.

[PriorityOne]

This thread appears to be going round in circles... and I am far too tired to present another argument this morning, having lots going on in my own life right now.

 

However, in support of earlier posts... it's foolish to rely on the DWP to advise you of correct entitlement. When I was claiming, I pulled them up on all sorts of things and due to their incompetence... they had to backdate payments, on more than one occasion, to pay what I should have got in the first place, had they assessed the claim properly.

 

Basing the following opinion upon people known to me.... if you are already claiming, then you are more likely to get the correct advice... as an incentive to come off Benefits or to go on to more socially acceptable ones, I assume. If you are new to claiming however, the advice is not always correct and people need to be aware of that.

 

...and as for not being aware of what you should be entitled to, there's no crime in that. DWP are employed to do the job properly and this should be done regardless of any registers that they may be instructed to manipulate to make things appear better than they really are.

 

I have always supported the views of JC on this thread and some of you seem to be missing the points raised. None of us are saying that Benefit fraud doesn't happen; just that other forms of fraud go on every day that don't seem to get the media coverage that this form of activity gets. IMO, it's good for the Government to keep this agenda alive and kicking... because it deflects public view from the state of the economy and apportions blame onto someone else.... and they are very good at it.

[patrickq1]

my hearing could nt be questioned ,i have had hearing aids since i was four years old ,

i am just so angry that this person who is supposed to be a medical person has told lies,my first hearing aid was as big as a sony walkman lol but as we know the technoligy then was only just moving away from the old valve sets 50s...

but i have since questioned the DWP and asked them to furnish me proof that the persons who did the all works test were actually qualified doctors,i have not had any replys in fact the only replys to questions i ask is answered with a question,this actually tells me that they are trying to avoid answering the truth,

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

i also have periodic hearing tests every 2 years it used to be five years but since 2002 it has now reduced to 2 years

patrickq1

[revolting peasant]

I'll admit that I haven't read the whole thread and I might be going back over old ground but I would like to put forward the case of a friend (yes really) to highlight the incompetence of the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

 

Recently separated from her partner, she filled in the application for Child Tax Credit and Working Tax Credit. There is a question on the form "How many children do you have?" She answered (correctly in my opinion) 3. About a year later, she got a letter from the IR as somebody else was claiming tax credit for 2 of her children. Result - she is now paying back an "overpayment" of credits for answering the question correctly. She does have three children. Had the question been "How many children do you have living with you?" she would have answered "one" as the two older ones have chosen to live with their father and the payments would have been set accordingly.

 

She appealed against the decision and was told that she should have understood the question and answered it "honestly". 3 pregnancies, 3 labours = 3 children no matter where they live. The question didn't ask where they live and she has been penalised for it.

 

In my opinion, that doesn't make her a benefit cheat. A little naive perhaps but criminal - I don't think so.

[PriorityOne]

Patrick.... if this is a DLA issue, then the assessment is based upon how much help you need and not how bad your hearing is. Hearing is one of the criteria for claiming DLA (care), so if this is not about that particular Benefit... then you need to 'phone for a claim pack.

 

No-one is likely to tell you that down at the DWP though...

[patrickq1]

no priority it is an issue about INCAPACITY BENEFIT ,i have just come out of hospital some 7 weeks agao after major by pass operations a tripple by pass to my lower arterial functions that is from my stomach and to both legs,and it was a case of operate or amputate within a matter of weeks,now i await the second part of the operations to a heart by pass and hopefully i will be fully fit to resume working,the reason for me being so angry with the DWP is i am of they type to just keep quiet and accept what people say as being correct,i got DLA at the time but was refused IB,the refusal was based on the DWP doctors reports which i now beleive where fabricated and also the doctors were or possibly were not qualified medical doctors but where advisors...hence the reason for the DWP refusing to hand over the medical reports which i applied for under the freedom of information..i have since forwarded my complaint to ICE and ICO and asked that they take action against the head of theDWP in my area,even if they offered to backdate everything i would not retract my actions against them as this is on principle that someone has lied and fabricated the reports,they also tried to refuse to divuldge information to my Local MP,but we have since received the majority of information from the accept the DWP doctors /sima reports,so i await the reports then i shall begin whatever actions their is available to me

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

i forgot to mention they have a written report from my specialist surgeon explaining the nature of my illness yet this was ignored and even he wants to know why

patrickq1

[empowered]

Since hearing the following news just before Christmas, I have been biting my lip but would like to rant! One of our work colleagues whose wife is apparently registered disabled is getting disability benefit, a car plus he is getting carers allowance. Now they are both employed full time on good salaries and enjoy boasting about it! Someone else overheard the conversation and was furious as he is having terrible trouble getting benefits for his disabled mother. We have warned them that they will be found out possibly through tax coding, but they say that are entitled! How can you get two bites at the cherry - either you don't have an income and have to claim or you have a good salary and can't claim! I am totally confused:confused:

[patrickq1]

it isnt unbeleivable because i have heard of a few round here in north wales who seem to be getting simmallar deals ,i would love to be fit to work,as i would nt be left with this feeling like i am beggin for what i should have been entitled to...all the savings i had have gone over the last 3 years so now we are left with no choice but to sell up and downgrade to a more affordable lifestyle

anyway i get sick of hearing about some of the cheats as we know it does go on but it should be up to the benefits department to be more active and visit people if only to see that they are being looked after and are receiving the correct benefits,i think it is just laziness on the part of the agencey it is their laxed attitude in not seeing to people by like i sugested it would in the long run be cheaper and would cut benefit cheating by more than half i am sure if people knew that they would periodicly get visitors they may think twice about cheating the system and also make them work,why on earth dont they find work if they are working on the side ,or why do they not have a minimum sentence of about two years in jail i am sure this would stop about 90 % of the cheating and would save us all money i payed fortunes in tax every week when i was working it was on an average of 300 plus per week but i travelled to london every other week and only came home every fortnight i was doing this for four years on the canary wharf contract...so i really do feel for those of us that cannot work and would love to be out their graftin and the pride in taking home your hard earned money paying your way ...

i wont go on so i shall get of my soap box

patrickq1

[empowered]

it isnt unbeleivable because i have heard of a few round here in north wales who seem to be getting simmallar deals ,i would love to be fit to work,as i would nt be left with this feeling like i am beggin for what i should have been entitled to...all the savings i had have gone over the last 3 years so now we are left with no choice but to sell up and downgrade to a more affordable lifestyle

anyway i get sick of hearing about some of the cheats as we know it does go on but it should be up to the benefits department to be more active and visit people if only to see that they are being looked after and are receiving the correct benefits,i think it is just laziness on the part of the agencey it is their laxed attitude in not seeing to people by like i sugested it would in the long run be cheaper and would cut benefit cheating by more than half i am sure if people knew that they would periodicly get visitors they may think twice about cheating the system and also make them work,why on earth dont they find work if they are working on the side ,or why do they not have a minimum sentence of about two years in jail i am sure this would stop about 90 % of the cheating and would save us all money i payed fortunes in tax every week when i was working it was on an average of 300 plus per week but i travelled to london every other week and only came home every fortnight i was doing this for four years on the canary wharf contract...so i really do feel for those of us that cannot work and would love to be out their graftin and the pride in taking home your hard earned money paying your way ...

i wont go on so i shall get of my soap box

patrickq1

 

Patrick - stay on your soapbox! I absolutely agree and am furious that both OH and myself have paid taxes for the last 35 odd years and despite being made redundant (with no redundancy pay) have never looked for a handout but have immediately started temping to get money in (also called personal pride!). I am very very tempted to report them.:o