AMEX & AIC & Newman

[Blue Thunder]

Thanks CP,

 

Take a look at what they sent me - any ideas??

 

Defence being sent out today!

 

regards

Blue

 

PS - if it wasnt for a dodgy connection this would have been uploaded last week!!

sdrake page1 aug08.pdf

sdrake page 2 aug08.pdf

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Blue,

 

I'm working away from home this week so access to the internet is somewhat unpredictable, so sorry for delays in responding.

 

I suspect Drake and Co are playing the 'so this guy thinks he knows something about the law lets try it on with him' game. All you can do is write your defence stating your case with the information available at that time. Then when it is read by the court, even before your hearing, there may be some directions given.

There may also be some brinksmanship here, as they push you to the last minute hoping you will cave in.

 

Whatever happens keep coming back to the basics of your defence don't let them sidetrack you.

 

I'm sure others will be along with advice and their thoughts too.

 

CP

[Blue Thunder]

Hi CP,

 

Thanks for the moral support - I plan to defend with the facts - there is far too much underhand that has gone on so far with all of these guys and I WILL have my day in court if thats what it takes.

Some of the correspondence I have had along the way is quite unbelievable when purported to be on behalf of such a reputable organisation as AMEX.

 

Thanks again and please share with me your progress also!

 

Thanks

Blue

[Blue Thunder]

Allocation questionnaire now received and transfer of proceedings to a local court.

Any tips for next steps and filling one of these out????

[Blue Thunder]

It all seems to have gone very quiet in terms of responses and I am concerned that after being given some very helpful advice and now approaching final hurdles - I am left in limbo as to the way forward.

I have to submit an Allocation Questionnaire within THREE days and really dont know the best way forward. Whilst I could get outside help I suspect I really wanted to keep it under the realms of the CAG, as there appears to be far more experience here and its through them that I have got this far to date.

In particular I am keen to hear from any members of the the Site Team that have had recent experience with the imbeciles working on behalf of Amex - or compiling AQ's and a defence.

PT2537 - I know you helped Padders win his case recently and also appreciate that you have indicated no PM's - but is there anything you can do to help??

I need to fill in the AQ as efficiently as possible - I believe I have certainly got the higher ground at present and unlike the Rankine case that I read with interest - I have the moral ground also - but legally speaking of course, morals are 'set aside' (to coin a phrase) in these cases.

I believe the thread gives much information but am willing to disclose the details with anybody that can help.

I would hate to fall at this late stage having come so far - but am concerned at the silence from recent requests of mine.

 

Many thanks

Blue

[OnMyWayOut]

Click the red triangle in the bottom left of your last post to summon some help from the site admins.

[Blue Thunder]

thanks for the response - but I shouldnt really use that triangle to gain attention - should I?

Its more for reporting purposes isnt it?

[OnMyWayOut]

It's OK - it is to alert the site admins to a post - it doesn't have to just be used to report problem posts. Honest!

[Cunning Plan]

Hi Blue Thunder,

 

Out Of My Way got to post fraction quicker than me. Click on the icon as suggested.

 

Meanwhile what questions do you have about the Allocation Questionnaire? Post them here and users will be along to help asap.

 

CP

[Blue Thunder]

Thanks CP - have done.

I really need general help and advice in how best to fill it out with out jeopardising my case.

eg. Q1 do I want to attempt to settle?

Q2 do I want a month stay - mediation etc etc etc

What did you do in yours? Are you going for an unexcuted agreement??

 

Thanks Blue

[pt2537]

Thanks CP - have done.

I really need general help and advice in how best to fill it out with out jeopardising my case.

eg. Q1 do I want to attempt to settle?

Q2 do I want a month stay - mediation etc etc etc

What did you do in yours? Are you going for an unexcuted agreement??

 

Thanks Blue

 

Hi

 

Have you posted a copy of the agreement that they sent you on the thread?

 

With regards to the questions

 

Q1 Yes but only if you feel it is likely to be possible, i dont think that you have anything to lose

 

Q2 again its your call here

 

Is there anything else that you need help with? or are these the only two Q's that are bugging you??

[Blue Thunder]

HI PT,

yes the original agreement was posted by me on 19th November 2007 earlier in this thread. You did take a look and gave me your comments at the time.

I wondered whether or not things had changed since then.

In all correspondence with Newmans, stevens drake and Amex they refer to this as an executed agreement as it was combined with Terms and conditions on the back of it. Even though they have sent me two different versions of T's and C's through the course of this.

Having never done anything like this before I am concerned as to not make mistakes and get it right.

I havent sent a full defence in yet - do I do that at this stage or just fill in the AQ. I have over 40 documents backwards and forwards - do I need to disclose them at this time?

I appreciate how busy you are Paul and any help will be really welcome.

Thanks

Blue

[Cunning Plan]

Hi BT,

 

On my AQ following advice I ticked:

Q1: Yes. This shows you have, and still are trying to resolve this case

Q2: Yes. Gives some flexibility. In my case the judge who reviewed the paperwork (this was without me or AMEX being there) gave orders that AMEX supply the requested paperwork by a certain date. They haven't so more ammo for me Works for both sides too.

 

Yes: They haven't produced an agreement, only poor copies of application forms, and a few statements. Not what has been requested and subsequently ordered by the court.

 

CP

[Blue Thunder]

Thanks CP

 

Just one question: Did you send copies of all correspondence you had - back with the AQ as part of a defence - or are you keeping that back as a formal defence when needed. Does it need to be defended at AQ stage or is the policy just to stick to the 'unable to supply a properly executed agreement' at this point.

 

Thanks again

BT

[pt2537]

Thanks CP

 

Just one question: Did you send copies of all correspondence you had - back with the AQ as part of a defence - or are you keeping that back as a formal defence when needed. Does it need to be defended at AQ stage or is the policy just to stick to the 'unable to supply a properly executed agreement' at this point.

 

Thanks again

BT

No you do not need to send them letters yet awhile

 

Once you send back the AQ you will receive directions from the court as to what you are required to do, it will be at that point when the disclosure stages start

[Blue Thunder]

Ok - thanks for your help PT and CP.

 

Will send off as you suggest.

regards

BT

[Cunning Plan]

Hi BT,

 

Great PT has covered your other queries.

 

The AQ is simply a way for the court to assess what has happened and what is going to happen. From now on it will be under the direction of the court. If they send any information to you (directions) you must act on it. Then, if it does go to a hearing and you're face to face with a judge you can hold your head high and say you've compiled with all the courts request.

It is daunting but the good thing is judges know you are an individual, who's possibly never been in a court before, and they will make allowances for this. The claimants however are likely to get slapped wrists if they waver too much from the normal prodcedure.

 

CP

[Blue Thunder]

Hi CP and PT,

 

Sorry - something else has emerged!

 

On the page for 'Other Information' on the AQ should I make reference to my 'Request For Information' letter which I sent to SD. They responded by only enclosing the alleged executed agreement (the application form), an earlier letter which detailed a file referral charge (which inludes AIC and Newman fees - although it doesnt specify this) and a copy of an account statement which was for one specific month (which was 7 months after the alleged default and three months before they took over the case). They then went on to say that all other documents I had requested were not under 'Automatic Disclosure' and referred me to part 31 of the Civil Procedure rules. They stated that their client "is not therefore obliged to provide you with any document by way of disclosure until such time as the Court orders by way of either Standard Disclosure or an Order for Specific Disclosure."

They do invite me to send my "application and your full grounds for requesting the original documentation" if I require Disclosure of any documents prior to an Order for Standard Disclosure being made by the court.

One would have assumed therefore that my Request for Information covered this point in the first place and is somewhat contradictory to their previous statement that their 'Client is not obliged'.

 

So, the question remains - should I make reference to this in the AQ and send copies of these documents as I believe they have contributed to delaying tactics. Do I also complete the box relating to 'other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim'.

 

Thanks

BT

[tinkerbell20]

Hi CP and PT,

 

Sorry - something else has emerged!

 

On the page for 'Other Information' on the AQ should I make reference to my 'Request For Information' letter which I sent to SD. They responded by only enclosing the alleged executed agreement (the application form), an earlier letter which detailed a file referral charge (which inludes AIC and Newman fees - although it doesnt specify this) and a copy of an account statement which was for one specific month (which was 7 months after the alleged default and three months before they took over the case). They then went on to say that all other documents I had requested were not under 'Automatic Disclosure' and referred me to part 31 of the Civil Procedure rules. They stated that their client "is not therefore obliged to provide you with any document by way of disclosure until such time as the Court orders by way of either Standard Disclosure or an Order for Specific Disclosure."

They do invite me to send my "application and your full grounds for requesting the original documentation" if I require Disclosure of any documents prior to an Order for Standard Disclosure being made by the court.

One would have assumed therefore that my Request for Information covered this point in the first place and is somewhat contradictory to their previous statement that their 'Client is not obliged'.

 

So, the question remains - should I make reference to this in the AQ and send copies of these documents as I believe they have contributed to delaying tactics. Do I also complete the box relating to 'other information you consider will help the judge to manage the claim'.

 

Thanks

BT

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

[Blue Thunder]

Thanks Tinkerbell.

It certainly looks the business - but should i send it at this stage AND refer to it in the AQ.

I'm just confused as to the procedures and in which order I need to do them. I am requesting as Stay of 1 month - so does this form part of that 'stay'. Also, if that is the case, do I tick the box marked 'Do I intend to make any applications in the immediate future' as 'yes' and when it asks 'If yes, what for?' do I refer to this request OR do I wait for the Courts instructions - gee - this is a minefield when you get into it!

Thanks again

BT

[Blue Thunder]

Hi PT,

do you have any comments to make? Sending AQ back today!

[pt2537]

Hi, Sorry, im just about to leave for a hearing this morning, so i am not going to be around much today

 

Where it refers to applications, this is formal applications for whatever reason on a N244 Application notice. this would cost you £75.00 to make the application and such an application would need to be worded correctly

 

Im not sure at this stage ticking yes would be a good idea unless you have anyone who can help you with this

[Blue Thunder]

Ok - thanks for your help again PT.

No -one else to help me - so I will just go with what I have and 'wing' it!

 

Thanks

BT

[tiokim]

bump

[Blue Thunder]

what's that supposed to mean then? seen it on a few threads from the same poster??????