LBA from Optima Leagal Services*WON* DISCONTINUED BY CONSENT*****

[Newborn]

Hi Viano,

 

I should have been more specific.

What I meant was, has the other card been defaulted and if so who is chasing you (if at all)?

 

Newborn

[Viano]

Hi Newborn,

 

If it has been defaulted I can't find it, that is to say I have papers all over the place, and it hasn't come to light yet. And, nobody at the moment that's why I'm a bit coy - you will understand.

 

Viano

[Viano]

Hi Paul,

 

Have you had a chance to update yourself on our defence yet, I have to have the paperwork in by the 15th April.

 

Viano

[Viano]

Morning all,

 

Can anyone point me to a printable copy of schedule 6 (Prescribed Terms) of the CCA pre 2006 please.

 

Viano

[42man]

Hope this helps Viano...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

They need to keep documents such as a copy of the agreement for 6 years after the closure of the account to comply with money laundering legislation.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

[42man]

Copied from the CCA 1974.

 

What the agreement must contain

 

1 A heading in one of the following forms of words shown prominently on the first

page:

 

Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or

Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or, in any other case,

 

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Where the document embodies an agreement, of which at least one part is a credit

agreement not regulated by the Act, the word ‘partly’ must be inserted before

‘regulated’ in the heading – unless the regulated and unregulated parts of the

agreement can be clearly seen to be separate.

 

2 The name and a postal address of both trader and customer.

 

3 A description (in enough detail to identify it) of any security to be provided by the

customer and a description of its subject matter. The description must be in the

main agreement but the full terms can be in a separate document referred to in

the main agreement.

 

4 Details of any default charges which the customer or a relative of his is required to

pay if he breaches the agreement.

 

5 Certain financial and related particulars (see below).

 

6 Statements of certain forms of protection and remedies provided for the customer

by the Act (see pages 12–14).

 

7 A signature box (see Appendix 2).

 

 

Point to note

In the case of regulated agreements (principal agreements) which contain the option of credit

protection insurance or other contracts relating to a guarantee of goods (subsidiary agreements)

the heading, statement of protection and remedies available to debtors under the Act, and

signature box applicable to the principal agreement may be used where these are different from

those which would be applicable to the subsidiary agreement.

 

Financial and related particulars

 

The following information must be shown together as a whole and not interspersed with

any other information, apart from cross-references to terms of the agreement and subtotals

of the total amounts.

 

 

1 In the case of agreements for fixed-sum credit where the money must be spent on

specified goods, land or services, a list or description of the items, together with

their cash price. Where there is more than one list or description of the items to be

bought with the credit, the cash price of each must be shown, together with the

total cash price. For instance: ‘mahogany dining room suite, six chairs and one

table, £1,500; colour TV £298; total cash price £1,798’. Where there is more than

one list or description, the cash prices and descriptions can be shown in a

schedule to the agreement, provided that the agreement itself refers to the

schedule and states the total cash price.

 

Points to note

The cash price is the price at which the seller would be prepared to sell to a buyer for cash.

It excludes any credit charges and is net of any discount offered to the customer.

‘Specified goods’ etc means goods agreed upon before the agreement is made. Thus these

are specified goods for a hire-purchase agreement but not, for example, for a trading check.

 

2 The amount and nature of any advance payment. This includes a deposit, any

amount allowed in part exchange, and any other payment the customer has to

make before being provided with credit or before entering into the agreement.

 

3 The amount of credit to be provided under a fixed-sum agreement (for example, a

cash loan) or particulars of the credit limit under a running-account agreement (for

example, a credit card).

The credit limit can be expressed as:

a a sum of money, or

b a statement that the trader will, under the agreement, periodically determine

the credit limit and notify the customer, or

c a sum of money together with a statement that the trader may, under the

agreement, periodically vary the credit limit and notify the customer, or

d if (a) (b) or © above are not appropriate either a statement indicating how the

credit limit will be determined and notified to the customer or a statement that

there is no credit limit.

Point to note

Under a fixed-sum agreement where the credit must be spent on specified goods, land or

services, the amount of credit will be the total cash price less any advance payments. If

there are no advance payments, nor any charges for credit under such an agreement, the

amount of credit (which will be the same as the total cash price) need not be shown.

 

4 The total charge for credit and the total amount payable by the customer in the case

of most fixed-sum agreements. The exceptions are given in the ‘points to note’

below. Charges payable by the customer that form part of the total charge for credit

are explained in the booklet Credit charges and APR (see page 35). The total

amount payable is the sum of the amount of credit provided under the agreement,

the total charge for credit and any advance payments. If either the total charge for

credit or the total amount payable cannot be precisely calculated, an estimate can

be shown – provided that this and any assumptions made in the estimate are stated.

 

Points to note

Point 4 does not apply to fixed-sum agreements where:

$ the credit must be spent on specified goods or services, and

$ the total amount payable is not more than the total cash price (that is, there are no

credit charges).

Nor does it apply to fixed-sum agreements under which the timing and/or amounts of

repayments of credit are not specified, or the total amount payable can vary according to

any formula specified in the agreement (including the level of any index, for example the

house price index), or the amount or rate of any credit charge can vary (whether in

accordance with the level of an index, for example, bank base rate or otherwise). In these

cases, the details of interest and other charges to be shown are the same as those required

for running-account agreements.

[pt2537]

ive attached a word copy of the SI that covers this

[Viano]

Thanks Chaps,

 

It's for my Disclosure by List. I'm putting everything including the kitchen sink.

 

It -the list- has to be there by 4pm 15th April 2007!.

 

Viano

[pt2537]

ah you dont have to actually send them the documents, just the list on which you are disclosing them

 

they should do the same, and that will allow you to look over their list and ask them to disclose any documents that you require to view

[Viano]

Thanks Paul,

 

Yes I understood that, all I am trying to do is make them think I know what I'm doing!

 

The list will be in the post in the morning.

 

Viano

[The GodMother]

GdGd.

 

That will look gd in front of a judge when you show u have done your reasearch.

 

Have Fun.

[pt2537]

Thanks Paul,

 

Yes I understood that, all I am trying to do is make them think I know what I'm doing!

 

The list will be in the post in the morning.

 

Viano

No worries mate, thats why i looked in just to check everything was ok:-)

[Viano]

OK chums,

 

It is 12 mins past 4pm and I have not yet received the oppositions disclosure list, it should have been here by 4pm. What now?

 

Viano

[The GodMother]

Just wait till tomorrow.

 

Phone the courts to see if they recieved it and ask about having the case thrown out as they have not complied with directions.

 

I was told it would cost £75.00 for my friends case but that may be different for you. Also as what forms u would need to fill out. Also you may want to ask what a reasonable amount of time is for u to have to wait after the deadline expires.

 

Some courts are leanant and say the next day and others say you can apply as soon as it deafults.

 

 

 

have them all ready to go.

[Viano]

Update on the Disclosure List.

The oppositions list didn't arrive today so I 'phoned the court, they (the telephonist) didn't seem perturbed, I was asked to write to the court and tell them. I was told the Judge would take this into account at the trial!

 

My letter was delivered to the court by hand.

 

I wonder what would have happened had my list been late?

 

Viano

[Alphageek]

You'd have been hung, drawn and quartered... obviously.

 

It's appalling what the Courts let these firms get away with. It seems, to me at least, that the Courts are in contempt of themselves sometimes!

[The GodMother]

I would ring back tomorrow and speak to them again.

 

It is not allowed to be one rule for you and another for them. If that person does not give what u think is a satasfactory answer then demand to speak to the courts manager and demand to know wjat is being done about this.

 

Just writing to the courts is not good enough. If it was an unless order then it should be that unless u do this we will do this.

[pt2537]

I would ring back tomorrow and speak to them again.

 

It is not allowed to be one rule for you and another for them. If that person does not give what u think is a satasfactory answer then demand to speak to the courts manager and demand to know wjat is being done about this.

 

Just writing to the courts is not good enough. If it was an unless order then it should be that unless u do this we will do this.

 

To be honest the directions were not made as "unless orders" so its not unusual for such matters to be referred to a judge . there was nothing setting out that they would be struck out.in fact they were pretty much standard disclosure directions so nothing allowing a strike out

 

so a letter drafted to the court would be the way to go on this matter, drawn to the attention of District Judge XXXXXXX

 

thats my thoughts

[The GodMother]

Ok i thought they could be made as unless orders but i must be wrong.

[pt2537]

Hi Chrissi,

 

the order was posted here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/119668-lba-optima-leagal-services-10.html#post1451736

 

thats how i knew it wasnt an unless order;)

 

you certainly can under certain conditions get a judge to make an order in the form of an unless order but it wasnt the case here

[The GodMother]

ok but i thing i may be mixing the directions orders up tho as it maybe possible.

 

I may be mixing it up with a CPR disclosure.

 

Paul i need to speak to u urgently about a case in court on friday. Is there a way i can contact u i need some advise re a judges decision.

[stapeley]

Would I be right in saying that the collection companies do all they can to bambozal people at the legal stage , in the hope the defendant will mess up ? There by , failure to supply the correct details is over looked .

The legal frame work , words used etc, are a huge hurdle for the layman to understand . Given the fact legal representation is beyond the person in debt, it results in cases being lost for the lack of true knowledge of the system ?

[citizenB]

Would I be right in saying that the collection companies do all they can to bambozal people at the legal stage , in the hope the defendant will mess up ? There by , failure to supply the correct details is over looked .

The legal frame work , words used etc, are a huge hurdle for the layman to understand . Given the fact legal representation is beyond the person in debt, it results in cases being lost for the lack of true knowledge of the system ?

 

Absolutely right

[The GodMother]

Would I be right in saying that the collection companies do all they can to bambozal people at the legal stage , in the hope the defendant will mess up ? There by , failure to supply the correct details is over looked .

The legal frame work , words used etc, are a huge hurdle for the layman to understand . Given the fact legal representation is beyond the person in debt, it results in cases being lost for the lack of true knowledge of the system ?

 

 

I agree but then that is what CAG is here for.

 

We help ppl with the debts and help ppl with court action. Some ppl say we condone debt avoidance but we encourgage sorting the debts out and in the correct order.

[stapeley]

I hope you guys will be here for me when my summons hit the mat .