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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Moorcroft Debt recovery


loubyb
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I had a letter from Moorcroft Debt Recovery in Stockport in August this year. I rang them and agreed that I would pay them a small amount every Friday. I also told them that as I was going away for 2 weeks my mum would be ringing on my behalf and making the payment. The man that I spoke to said that would be fine. My mum rang as agreed on the 31st August to make the first payment and she was told that there was no record of me phonong and agreeing that my mum would phone on my behalf. They told her that she would have to pay the full amount of £206 there and then. My mum paid this on her credit card for me and we thought that would be the last of it. I then recieved a letter on 3rd Oct saying that i owed £215 and that my debt was in the process of being passed to the courts. I rang them again and was told that if I didn't pay the full £215 there and then I would be taken to court. I explained that I simply didn't have that amount of money at the time at which point the lady on the phone became quite aggresive and I ended up in tears. After the phone call I remebered that my mum had paid it and got her to check her bank statements and ring them back. She did this and told them that the payment had been taken from her account on 3rd Sept. They had no record of the payment ever being made. My mum has now had to send them a copy of her bank statement in order to prove to them that she had paid it and to add insult to injury they told my mum that she would have to pay and extra £9! Mymum refused and we are currently going to CAB and getting advice on how to deal with these aggresive people! All this stress that they have caused me is making me really ill and all for £215!!!! How can companies like this be allowed to get away with such aggresive behaviour!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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As it's paid up, I would try and put this one behind you now. In future however, never have any dealings with any debt people on the 'phone because they will come out with all kinds of bowlarks in order to get money from you. As for the £9 charge.... forget about it. If they contact you in writing, then come back on here. If they try and 'phone you, just hang up.

  • Haha 1
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Oh loubyb, if only you'd found this site earlier. Don't beat yourself up, you did nothing wrong. Companies like Moorcroft prey on fear and ignorance of the law, and believe they have carte blanche to threaten and intimidate people into payment.

 

Please tell as many people as possible about this site, and don't let Moorcroft upset you.

 

As PO says, do NOT speak to them on the phone, no matter what. If they get back in touch, politely but firmly tell them to put all correspondence in writiting, then post here for more advice.

 

:)

  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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No !! Don't ring them !!

 

You have to understand how these guys operate to know where all these exclamation marks are coming from. DO NOT EVER RING A DCA !! They will lie, intimidate, threaten and bully you into making payments. You will never get the closure that you're after.... all you need to do is keep all proof that payments were made somewhere safe and ignore all attempts to contact you by 'phone.

 

If they WRITE to you, then come back on here for ways of dealing with it.

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I'd echo that. Phone them ONLY if you're recording the call AND totally confident dealing with them.

 

I'm not accusing Moorcroft of this (of course), but DCAs have in the past been known to lie on the phone. Or they'll tell you that everything is fine, then write demanding more money.

 

Give me a minute or two and I'll suggest what to write. :)

  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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I'd put something like this:

 

Dear Moorcroft,

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

You have recently been sent a bank statement which clearly shows that £215 has been paid in respect of this alleged debt. I appreciate there may be some confusion as this payment was made by a relative, however I expect that you will now consider this matter closed.

Please be aware that any further demands for payment will be treated as harrassment under the Administration of Justice Act.

Yours,

I wouldn't bother with anything else, to be honest. As others have said, if they still write back or demand payment, let us know. :)

  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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loubyb,

 

Do not let these vultures get you down. They are the lowest of the low!

 

Remember you are not a criminal!

 

I would also echo what others have posted on here. DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE!

 

Good luck

you are among friends here.

The only man who sticks closer to you in adversity than a friend is a creditor.

 

Debt Collection Charges

 

There is no legal basis for a creditor or a debt collection agency acting on its behalf to claim collection costs from a debtor unless there is an express provision in the original agreement.

 

Without such provision, collection charges cannot be demanded as a debt due under the agreement.

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I'd report their behaviour to your local Trading Standards (TS). The Tactics used are completely deplorable and are arguably not in the spirit of the OFTs guidelines on Debt Management.

 

You could S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Moorcroft & request all data on all systems this should include recordings/transcripts of all telephone calls. If they supply these then you could use this as evidence should you wish to push it with TS.

 

Other than that write don't call & put it down to experience.

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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I'd report their behaviour to your local Trading Standards (TS). The Tactics used are completely deplorable and are arguably not in the spirit of the OFTs guidelines on Debt Management.

 

You could S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Moorcroft & request all data on all systems this should include recordings/transcripts of all telephone calls. If they supply these then you could use this as evidence should you wish to push it with TS.

 

Other than that write don't call & put it down to experience.

I agree 100%. Report them to TS. In fact when you write DJ Daves letter to them DEMAND a copy of their complaints procedure. They are legally required to have one. If they do not supply you with the details of the procedure or fail to deal with your complaint then I would suggest you report them to the FOS and it will cost them another £185 on top of the money they conned (allegedly) from your Mum. Theres more than one way to skin a rat:eek:

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  • 2 years later...

I have been trying to deal with this issue for over a week now, and have had no help to sort out the outcome.

 

Basically I have a default on my credit report from O2. Fair enough I had an pay monthly phone and didnt pay the debt, so I hold my hands up and am willing to pay the debt back to O2 exclusively.

 

I have also seen I have a CCJ issued by Northampton CCBC by MOORCROFT DEBT RECOVERY on behalf of O2.

 

 

I am more than happy to pay the debt back to O2 directly but only on the following conditions:

 

1. O2 REMOVE DEFAULT FROM CREDIT REPORTS

2. O2 SATISFACTORY REMARK ON CREDIT REPORTS

3. ACCEPT MY OFFER OF MONTHLY,REDUCED NO INTEREST PAYMENTS

4. TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MOORCROFT DEBT RECOVERY AND NORTHAMPTON CCBC TO GET THE CCJ REMOVED.

 

 

Do you think I am likely to get this sorted?

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  • 4 months later...

I have just received a pre court division letter from moorcroft. This is their third letter to me but they have twice ignored my requests for agreements to be sent to me. They even said that they had contacted their client and told me to write to their client to get these agreements. Ha Ha. Up til now they have had money off me until I found out what rights I had. Payments have stopped reason for court letter. Sending nasty letter back telling them I will take my chance in court if they want to go down that route.

Edited by lightningd
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Also, DO NOT send any of these leeches any info like bank statements, I and E forms and the like. They are not entitled to any of that information. Only a court can legally ask for that info.

jed

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I have only sent them letters. Last one Ive told them to take me to court if they so wish. Made a few payments to them but stopped them until or if they send me documents I have asked for. In the beginning I agreed over phone to pay a certain amount after basically been threatened by them. Now Im a lot wiser. They tried to tell me because of missed payments Im in default but Ive put them straight as to who is in default. Watch this space Jed.

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Message for Loubyb - I tried to phone the DCA but after a couple of calls realised that it wouldn't get me any where. Thankfully I found this site. In my 'naive' days I offered to send a cheque to my creditor but was told it wouldn't get cashed in time because of the postal strike which had already ended lol. They will come up with all kinds of excuses so DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM. I used to leave them hanging on the phone and went back to watching Coronation Street. I used to be stressed like you but not any more. Keep coming to this site.

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As Lick the Wall has posted in another thread Moorcroft Pre Court Division is more akin to Moorcroft Pre School Nursery.#

 

I can vouch for the fact that a curt letter containing our solicitors details plus all of the relevant regulation infringments, much on the lines of the CAG "doorstep letter" sent them running for cover after only two phone calls.

 

They do not understand the law and do not expect you to either which is a very dangerous assumption on their part. If you stick your ground and DO NOT TALK TO THEM they will run. Either to court which can be dealt with here or return the account to the OC toute suite. Their ONLY weapon is to threaten you.

 

Regards

oilyrag.:)

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As Lick the Wall has posted in another thread Moorcroft Pre Court Division is more akin to Moorcroft Pre School Nursery.#

 

I can vouch for the fact that a curt letter containing our solicitors details plus all of the relevant regulation infringments, much on the lines of the CAG "doorstep letter" sent them running for cover after only two phone calls.

 

They do not understand the law and do not expect you to either which is a very dangerous assumption on their part. If you stick your ground and DO NOT TALK TO THEM they will run. Either to court which can be dealt with here or return the account to the OC toute suite. Their ONLY weapon is to threaten you.

 

Regards

oilyrag.:)

Hello Oilyrag. Thanks for your reply. Just received another letter from moorcroft downgraded from pre court division to doorstep rep. Just typed out reply to them enclosing a copy of my last letter telling them that i will take my chance in court. Also re-iterated that they have ignored my letters of requests for documents & threatened them with court action for harrasment & demanding money with menaces. Told them i will no longer tolerate their attitude.

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Good for you, stay in control.

jed

Hello jed told you to watch this space. Got letter which is now stating agent will call round rather than pre court division. They are running scared now. Threatened to sue them for harrassment & demanding money with menaces. Sent them copy of my last letter as they chose to ignore it first time round. Once again watch this space.

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Hi Lighning,

 

Well we're back and running with:

 

"Notice of Intended Litigation" all outlined in a big red box. The joke is that it is full of ifs, maybes, will tell tales to BC and their sols. AND it only gives three days to pay or else on an already terminated account. Sols advice--- just ignore and send us a copy but watch out for any claims forms.

 

regards

oilyrag.:)

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Hi Lighning,

 

Well we're back and running with:

 

"Notice of Intended Litigation" all outlined in a big red box. The joke is that it is full of ifs, maybes, will tell tales to BC and their sols. AND it only gives three days to pay or else on an already terminated account. Sols advice--- just ignore and send us a copy but watch out for any claims forms.

 

regards

oilyrag.:)

They are running scared and are quickly becoming a joke. Sticking together we will beat these jokers/chancers. As i stated earlier i have now threatened them with legal action and i await their reply. They must put up or shut up as far as im concerned.

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Hi Oilyrag. Told you to watch this space regarding moorcroft. Just had letter from their compliance dept saying they want a speedy solution. I pointed out just how flawed their letter was & that they have not once complied with my requests & they want me to send a letter to their client asking for the relevant documentation. I told them the responsibility lies with them. They also said that they have sent me a statement of accounts which is totally false. They assure me that they are acting as agents for a client but still offer no proof. Theyve come down from pre court division to doorstep caller to compliance dept. I think im winning Catch you later.

Edited by lightningd
correcting spelling
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