HFO Services - please help

[loopy_lou1]

I made a verbal agreement with HFO this morning and then spoke to a friend of mine who is a government debt counsellor - I telephone them back and told them to cancel the agreement because until I receive something in writing from them they can't ask me to make any arrangement with them. I was passed through to an account manager who then said she would demand full payment as we had not agreed. As I have not yet received a CCA or any correspondence from them I think I was within my rights to do this. She then said an agent could call at my house - I live with my parents and they would be horrified to receive a debt collector at the door.

Do HFO have the right to do this as they say they are a factoring company and not a debt collection agency and is there any way I can prevent this? I would be willing to pay a token payment as we negotiated from £1000 to £50! I now know that I shouldn't have made an arrangement and have cancelled it until I receive anything in writing.

 

Please help - they said the Consumer Credit Agreement does not apply to them - they bought the debt from Morgan Stanley on a card for which I owe £3400.

[rory32]

If you send the letter I posted in the other thread recorded delivery, this revokes their ability to come to your door. If anyone does turn up (in 99% of cases no one ever does and it is just a scare tactic on their behalf) tell them to leave and if they don't phone the police. Lastly NEVER talk to these people on the phone. INSIST that all communication is in writing. If they do phone don't answer their security questions, if they then discuss the account with you without going through security questions they are in breach of the Data Protection Act.

[rory32]

Please help - they said the Consumer Credit Agreement does not apply to them - they bought the debt from Morgan Stanley on a card for which I owe £3400.

As previously stated this is complete nonsense. They are now the creditor and as such have to supply a complying copy of the credit agreement to enforce the account. Are there any charges on this account? Morgan Stanley usually are very quick to add lots of unlawful charges to accounts.

[loopy_lou1]

But I have spoken to them on the phone today. Am I now liable for the full amount because I "changed my mind" - all calls are recorded and they upset me and I got irate because I've never heard of them?

 

I just told them I would make some arrangement with them when I'd received documentation. Have I said the wrong thing? I don't think I have to pay £50 a month to them do I? I cancelled the original agreement. I want to pay them £1 is that lawful or can they demand more?

 

So if they phone again - I just ignore the call? It was because they threatened me with legal action which is something I've heard before because they are not my only debtor. They call themselves a "factoring company" - does this give them more rights than a debt agency or is this is glorified name?

[rory32]

I forgot to add, when dealing with these people do not sign your letters. There is no legal requirement to sign letters, although if you feel you must either print your name or use a digital signature.

[rory32]

They call themselves a "factoring company" - does this give them more rights than a debt agency or is this is glorified name?

It's just a glorified name, they have no more legal rights than you or me.

Am I now liable for the full amount because I "changed my mind" - all calls are recorded and they upset me and I got irate because I've never heard of them?

Verbal acknowledgement over the phone doesn't count. So they can forget about that. Until they comply with the CCA request they can not enforce the debt and they know it. If they keep phoning send them the following letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html and log their calls. You can also get call barring if you feel the need.

[loopy_lou1]

What happens if they do have the documentation? Can they demand full payment? I am in within my rights if I make "ANY" contribution aren't I?

 

I do intend to resolve all of my debts by Payplan or insolvency because this is getting ridiculous.

[Curlyben]

Completely agree with Rory here.

NEVER EVER talk to these "people" on the phone as they will say anything to secure a payment from you.

As can bee seen here they have already implied that they have more authority then they really do.

Keep EVERYTHING in writing and if you do answer the phone to them, simply refuse to answer their "security" questions and demand everything in writing, as is your right.

[rory32]

If they produce a copy of the agreement that is enforceable you are quite within your rights to offer a repayment proposal in line with your ability to pay. Providing you do this they can not lawfully demand full payment and any litigation would be thrown out of court. If you do make a repayment proposal it is a good idea to do a Statement of Account (this shows your income and expenditure) and enclose your first payment with the repayment plan. They will then cash your payment which legally counts as acceptance of your repayment plan.

[loopy_lou1]

I've been absolutely terrified. My name is Lorna, by the way. I'm 33 and I live at home with my parents because my debt has got completely out of hand. This is only 10% of my full debts owing. So you can work out how much it is because it's embarrassing.

 

As for HFO - they scared me to death. Trying to be nice and polite about everything and keeping their cool - which made me even more angry - on my return phonecall to them the first guy put the phone down on me so I rang them back because I was going to make a deposit of £100 against the debt to them - they refused any lower and said they'd pass it on to litigation if I didn't. I'm in temporary employment and I have been out of work since June and my first pay is not going to stretch very far so another £100 would kill me. I cancelled the arrangement with them and now the "accounts manager" is saying she can demand full payment and has all correct documentation.

[rory32]

This is why you need to keep everything in writing. What they say to you over the phone they would never put in writing. It's also the reason why they don't record phone calls because they are breaking every rule in the book normally. Have a look at this link to find out what they can and can't do http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf When did you send the CCA request and did you send it recorded delivery?

[PriorityOne]

I've been absolutely terrified. My name is Lorna, by the way. I'm 33 and I live at home with my parents because my debt has got completely out of hand. This is only 10% of my full debts owing. So you can work out how much it is because it's embarrassing.

 

Please don't be embarrassed about any debts.... I can assure you that I've had debts a great deal higher than yours and so have many others on these forums.

 

As advised earier, unless they can comply with your CCA request... then they cannot re-enforce the debt through the courts. Did you send the CCA by rec. delivery ?.... and do you still have the receipt for it ?

 

As for HFO - they scared me to death. This is what they like to do.... which is why you should never talk to them on the 'phone. It's the only way of telling you complete bowlarks.... Trying to be nice and polite about everything and keeping their cool - which made me even more angry part of their "training"... - on my return phonecall to them the first guy put the phone down on me so I rang them back because I was going to make a deposit of £100 against the debt to them - they refused any lower and said they'd pass it on to litigation if I didn't. Without a CCA, they would be pretty stuffed with this course of action... I'm in temporary employment and I have been out of work since June and my first pay is not going to stretch very far so another £100 would kill me. I cancelled the arrangement with them and now the "accounts manager" is saying she can demand full payment and has all correct documentation.

 

Well, if she has all of this "correct documentation", why haven't you received it ? She can demand as much as she likes, but if you haven't got the money, they're not going to get it.... regardless of any CCA they may produce later on down the track.

 

For now though, if they are in default of your CCA request, then you are not legally obliged to pay them anything. The ball is in their court to come up with the Agreement or not.

 

You say that this is only 1 of several debts.... what are the others for ? Do you feel strong enough to take these on as well right now ?

[loopy_lou1]

They lied then and told me that the call was being recorded. I'm not too sure what I'm supposed to do here. The CCA is Consumer Credit Act 1974 right?

I haven't received ANYTHING from this company except a phonecall for half an hour this morning and then I phoned them back. They did start all this negiotating business again but when I gave an amount it was "unacceptable" so they weren't complying with me and I wasn't staying on the phone with them from North Wales - phoning London!!! I get precious little weekends off and they've ruined my Saturday, swines!!

 

I haven't made a written request - they were pressurising me on a date I could pay - what THEY wanted me to - they weren't listening. I understand the debt is £3400 but I'm paying other credits, too. They used the word "bare minimum" - originally it was £1000 payment depsit BARE MINIMUM! How are they getting away with this???

 

The be all and end all is - if I offer them £1 a month do they have to accept it?

 

I don't know if they have a CCA because I've had nothing in writing! I'm going to ignore this until I see evidence on paper. Only then will I consider this at all. I'm not wasting my time on people bullying.

[PriorityOne]

Ok.... you need to make a legal request for your Consumer Credit Agreement. I will go and find the link and explain how this works shortly.

 

[rory32]

So have you actually received anything in writing from HFO regarding this account or have they just been phoning you demanding payment?

[loopy_lou1]

Can I just say how helpful all of you have been today? Thank you so so much.

 

I'm in a state financially and I think it's time to take stock. Like many I've been letting things go.

 

I'm so grateful to all of you - cheers

 

Lorna

[loopy_lou1]

So have you actually received anything in writing from HFO regarding this account or have they just been phoning you demanding payment?

 

Today is the first time I've heard from them - that's why I was scared. They say they've written to me on the 10th October but I've received nothing and they're blaming the postal strike which is over here.

[rory32]

They probably haven't written to you - it's a fairly standard tactic.

[PriorityOne]

Here is the link.... please let me know if it doesn't work.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

You need to make a request in writing... verbal agreements count for nothing. It makes no difference whether they have recorded your conversation or not.... this is just an example of the bowlarks they tell you. However, you cannot ignore this and must make a legal request... because it protects you against them trying to go for a CCJ without any documention at all. Once they've received a request, the account remains in dispute until they can produce it.

 

Send the above letter by recorded delivery. Enclose a postal order for £1 in with the letter. Do not sign the letter in your normal style... just print a signature on it. After you have sent it, you can check on the Royal Mail website to see if it's been received and print off a copy of the signature from them to say that it has. Keep all of these safe.

 

The ball is now in their court. They have received a legal request and have 12 working days from receipt within which to comply. If they do not, then you are not legally obliged to offer them a penny until/unless they can produce the doc. and have it re-enforced in court. If no-one can produce it.... which happens a lot on here, then the debt cannot be legally pursued at all.

 

They will probably try and get you on the 'phone during this time... but have none of it. Do not get into any more 'phone conversations and if they try and contact you.... hang up. Log the date and time of each call though, as this may come in handy later.

[PriorityOne]

Forgot to ask... when was the last time you made a payment/written acknowledgement of this account anyway ?

[loopy_lou1]

It was last year sometime and I haven't liased with Morgan Stanley about this account since then.

 

So basically she CANNOT DEMAND full payment even if I have a CCA is that what you're saying?

 

I'm sorry for being so stupid - I thought I knew everything there was to know about debts - obviously I've been trying to resolve this - I even went for an IVA with Payplan but it was refused because of Northern Rock.

[rory32]

So basically she CANNOT DEMAND full payment even if I have a CCA is that what you're saying?

 

Yes.

[loopy_lou1]

Where do they get off behaving like this? They should be reported. Old people or weak people might have financial difficulty and hateful, deceitful pigs like them can behave like that! They were so PATRONISING.

 

One line was "I don't want this to turn into an argument we want a happy ending!"

 

I told them to cancel the one off payment they'd DEMANDED and the first AGENT who incidentally told me he was a MANAGER refused and put the phone DOWN ON ME When I phoned back said "I am unable to do that, this call is being recorded and you have a legal obliglation to pay this now" On asking for this and getting that reply I told them they were STEALING if they didn't stop the payment and to take money from me without MY authorisation. He then put me through to his QUEEN BEE who said she WOULD cancel the one-off payment of £100 on Tuesday but had no alternative but to request the full balance now because I refused to pay them anything until they'd sent me anything in writing. She offered to do this by email and fax for the "documentation" and I refused again until I had received anything by post ONLY.

[rory32]

It may be an idea to cancel the card that you used to pay them, just tell the issuer that you have lost it. That way you don't have to worry about whether they are going to use your card details or not.

[loopy_lou1]

She told me she WOULD cancel it and now was demanding the full payment. I've already informed the bank and they've said if the money goes out it can be reclaimed as I gave the name of the company. I need to phone the reclaims department and tell them that this payment has not been authorised and they will pay it back into my account.