Bad news :( HELP!

[dannster]

Hey guys,

 

I just rang HSBC to find out if they received my prelim letter by FAX on the 1st March.

 

I was put through to some snotty woman who said that the charges for returned direct debits etc was "justified because you went over your limit". She said that the charges cover their admin charges and if she said, and I quote: "If you keep your account in order, then you won't incur these charges. These charges are a deterant."

 

I told her that several of my friends with the same bank have been successful with and had all their charges refunded and she said "It depends on their individual circumstances."

 

I then said: "They were in the same position as me. They're students with a student account with HSBC and more-or-less incurred the same total in charges over the exact same period, and all their charges were the same as mine (ie returned direct debits, card misuse). Why did they receive a refund of ALL charges?"

 

She then said: "Again, it depends on their individual circumstances. What do you suggest is the reasonable fee we should charge?"

 

I said: "I don't know the amount but £30 for a returned direct debit is eccessive."

 

She said: "Ok, there's nothing we can do. We're standing with not refunding these charges as they're set out in the terms and conditions."

 

I said: "Ok, after these 14 days have passed, I'll be submitting a claim to the small claims court."

 

She said: "That really is fine."

 

And that's it! She previously said that there was no record of a complaint on the system - But they sent me a letter with a leaflet explaining they're dealing with it and I sent them a FAX...I feel so unvalued now :(

 

What should I do?

[dannster]

This is crazy...aren't they meant to keep records of complaints?! I don't get it and I don't know what to do next

 

If they say they haven't received the prelim letter giving them 14 days, then I can't summon them to a small claims court can I?

[lee6370]

Don't worry, it's what they all say, let's face it their not going to say "hold on your right £30.00 what a rip off, wait a minute and i'll refund your money". In fact she seems nice compared to some of the bank staff i've spoken to.

 

They want you to feel like it's your fault and you've got what you deserve, don't know what was in your 1st letter, but send a letter telling them your taking them to court and given them 14 days, you'll need to detail the amount, etc. use the one in the library.

 

They may or the may not respond to your next letter, either way don't phone them, but be prepared to go to court.

[dannster]

Oh god! I didn't think it'd get to the stage where I'd have to consider taking HSBC to court??

 

I thought they pay up before it gets that far?

 

What should I do now Dave? Should I send another letter? If so, which one?

[dannster]

Ok, I will take them to court if I have to...I'm certainly not worried about that

 

Where I live though, my Dad owns the property (he's a property investor)...would it effect him, his properties or his finances in anyway?

 

How much would it cost? My partner is a solicitor but that's in corporate law and he doesn't know much about this, so would I need to hire someone who specialises in this sort of thing? (If there is a firm that specialises in this sort of thing?!)

[ispartacus75]

First of all they cannot levy your debts against your father unless your father was already a guarantor on your account (dont even know if it applies to accounts, it can apply to loans).

 

Second of all.....

I was put through to some snotty woman who said that the charges for returned direct debits etc was "justified because you went over your limit". She said that the charges cover their admin charges and if she said, and I quote: "If you keep your account in order, then you won't incur these charges. These charges are a deterant."

 

If ithis is a verbatim quote from the woman on the phone you NEED a transcript of this conversation.

 

'These charges are a deterant' This is what we have been looking for isnt it? Someone to admit that the charges are there as a deterant/penalty.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong

[dannster]

Yeah, that's what she said to me!!!!

 

I was writing it down as she was saying it!!!

 

Can I ask for a transcript of the conversation from HSBC? Is that possible?

[ispartacus75]

Data Protection Act. You are entitled to it if they hold it.

 

Always better to record the conversation youtrself tho as well.

 

I read on hear somewhere I think that is not illegal to record a conversation even without the other parties knowledge. Is there anymore on that? Legal precidence?

[dannster]

Hey

 

They've sent the tape to my nearest branch: 40-01-65 and the branch will call me when they receive it. Does anyone want to meet up and listen to it with me?

 

I know myself that she said it's a deterent so it will be quoted on the tape

 

What can I then do with that? lol Can I keep the tape and play it to the judge in court?

[karonus]

I would like to reassure the original poster, these comments as someone has already commented, are simply that, comments. I do corporate debt recovery and experience all sorts of comments such as this to avoid paying overdue debts.

 

As for legal action what are you afraid off. If your partner is a solicitor you are in a much better position than others on this list. The legal action advocated on the list is a basic small claims action. Your partner should be able to do this without any problem.

[dannster]

I would like to reassure the original poster, these comments as someone has already commented, are simply that, comments. I do corporate debt recovery and experience all sorts of comments such as this to avoid paying overdue debts.

 

As for legal action what are you afraid off. If your partner is a solicitor you are in a much better position than others on this list. The legal action advocated on the list is a basic small claims action. Your partner should be able to do this without any problem.

 

Ok, he won't be home til later this evening so I'll ask then. If he can help in any way for anyone else, I'm sure he'll be willing to But like I said, he's in corporate law so maybe I'd need someone who specialises in this sort of thing?

[Natasha]

Dannster, you know when you sent the fax it gives you a receipt saying its been delivered etc, do you still have it?

 

You can even send a letter and fax/email reminding them that they only have x amount of days left before you take legal action.

As dave say's, "the clocks ticking".

[richardc]

As he is a specialist in corporate law he will be an expert in contract law

[dannster]

Dannster, you know when you sent the fax it gives you a receipt saying its been delivered etc, do you still have it?

 

You can even send a letter and fax/email reminding them that they only have x amount of days left before you take legal action.

As dave say's, "the clocks ticking".

 

Ah, my fax machine didn't print a report :? It never does to my knowledge...only when I unplug the phone does it then print off about it being turned off.

[dannster]

As he is a specialist in corporate law he will be an expert in contract law

 

Ok, I'll ask him when he gets back Hopefully he'll be able to help! I didn't want to get him involved though so I haven't told him - He's always very critical when I moan on about legal things...!!

 

If he can, then I'm sure he'll be more than willing to offer some advice on here

[daniel_r_clarke]

did you ever get the tape? surely taking this to the national press would really scare the banks into a rethink and millions of people who don't know about this site can benifit from the banks relaxing their "deterants". Grr.

[BankFodder]

If you get a tape then we would like a copy please.

[Mgizmogpc]

Wouldn't we all like a copy! Shall I form an orderly queue? It could appear in the National Newspapers like those queues everytime an NHS Dentist opens up, except this one would stretch to china...

[daniel_r_clarke]

Wouldn't we all like a copy! Shall I form an orderly queue? It could appear in the National Newspapers like those queues everytime an NHS Dentist opens up, except this one would stretch to china...

 

Ha yeah it would, has anyone actually got a hold of this and let the general press know? I mean we all know its an outrage, but everyone just lives with it! God i'm still annoyed from getting my letter before!!

[dilligaf]

Faxes, first class mail etc... is all considered a reasonable way of a letter of pre-action.

 

Hi all

 

just to let you know that the only legally recognised method of communication delivery is the post. Any letter that that has been posted in this country is considered delivered by law, irrespective of the fact of wether the recipient recieved it. I have just had a refresher course on contract law end of last year and this was one of the topics. I'll try and dig out my notes to give some detail but I hope this helps.

 

Dilligaf

[richardc]

Yes - appreciate what you're saying and references will be very useful if you could get them for us.

 

However, as regarding the practicalities, what everyone wants is action from the recipient bank. Regretably, the performance of the Post Office in delivering 1st Class and Recorded Delivery mail is about the equivalent of the baggage handlers at Thiefrow Airport.

 

Banks will use any excuse to not respond or delay claims against them in the hope that we will get frustrated and give up. They play dirty. I strongly recommend that all correspondence is delivered by Special Delivery and a copy emailed. If possible, a copy should be handed in at your local branch and signed for or note taken of date, time and the name of the person to whom you gave it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit laboured, bot the message does get through!

[dilligaf]

Yes - appreciate what you're saying and references will be very useful if you could get them for us.

 

However, as regarding the practicalities, what everyone wants is action from the recipient bank. Regretably, the performance of the Post Office in delivering 1st Class and Recorded Delivery mail is about the equivalent of the baggage handlers at Thiefrow Airport.

 

Banks will use any excuse to not respond or delay claims against them in the hope that we will get frustrated and give up. They play dirty. I strongly recommend that all correspondence is delivered by Special Delivery and a copy emailed. If possible, a copy should be handed in at your local branch and signed for or note taken of date, time and the name of the person to whom you gave it.

 

Sorry if this is a bit laboured, bot the message does get through!

 

Trust me this is infallible if you have sent a letter via the royal mail it is considered delivered and is undisputed.

 

Dilligaf

[dilligaf]

sorry I should have added that a proof of posting would help but a documented date of postring (usual paper chain stuff) is sufficient. Burgeon of proof being the precedent.

 

Dilligaf

[BankFodder]

Faxes, first class mail etc... is all considered a reasonable way of a letter of pre-action.

 

Hi all

 

just to let you know that the only legally recognised method of communication delivery is the post. Any letter that that has been posted in this country is considered delivered by law, irrespective of the fact of wether the recipient recieved it. I have just had a refresher course on contract law end of last year and this was one of the topics. I'll try and dig out my notes to give some detail but I hope this helps.

 

Dilligaf

 

Although this is a useful rule which provides some certainty in contract law, outside the law of contract one has to look to the circumstances and the rule ceases to be a rule but may only be used as a rebuttable presumption.

 

Even within contract law the rules has limited applicability.

If your notes don't say this then leave them where they are.

[dannster]

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