For anyone who finds themselves in receipt of a claim

[PriorityOne]

I'm sure others who know you & Laiste and that you had differences of opinion would assume any untoward involvement in the matter P1.

 

People are often quick to assume all sorts Conar... Laiste and I often had heated debates on here, but heated debates are no reason to get banned from the forums.

 

For what it's worth, I'm sorry to see her go as well. We often approached situations from very different viewpoints, but that's all. I certainly didn't hate her guts and hope that she didn't hate mine either.

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

Moving away from the issue of Laiste being banned (which is a shame, but a matter for the site admin), I am currently doing battle with HSBC in the matter of an overdraft.

 

I have submitted a claim for charges, and they have replied with the standard 'we won't deal with it until after the OFT case' letter. However, they have continued to pursue it and to add interest and charges, so I have written to tell them that I took their letter as evidence of their wish to suspend the matter until the OFT case was over, but if that was not the case, they had only to send me an undertaking not to ask for a stay, and I will take them to Court tomorrow, after which I will be happy to consider their request for repayment.

 

No answer yet...

[conar686]

*I* come across as rude and unhelpful? YOU have just accused the whole team collectively of "heavy-handed censorship" and *I* am rude? Wow. Talk of pots and kettles.

 

You lost me there BW please point out where I was being both rude & unhelpful. I stand by my statements 'some' MODs (if the cap fits wear it) can be aloof to the point of rudeness and rarely respond to questions directed at them. I'm honoured that you have come down from your lofty position to enter into this discussion:)

 

Fact 1: A ban doesn't come from moderators. It comes from Admin, in other words the site owners.

 

I thought the site was run on contributions from people who can afford to pay doesn't that make those that have paid stakeholders in the site ergo the Admins may chair the meeting but should not necessarily have the final vote.

 

Fact 2: In the CAG history, the number of people banned has been less than 10, and maybe even less than 5. That alone should tell you something.

 

And how many really useful/knowledgeable people have left because of the poor attitude of 'some' on this site, a lot more methinks.

 

Fact 3: We can not publish on open forum the reasons why someone had been banned, and I personally (my personal opinion, NOT the forum's party line, mind!) think it is the right thing to do. If you were fired from a job, would you expect the managers to come out and tell everyone in the workplace why? Especially if you were at fault? Somehow, I don't think so.

 

Don't want publication, you're right. A statement to the effect that Laiste had been banned for offences against the terms & conditions of the site when the question was first asked would have been sufficient. This usually happens when someone is fired from a team, we are a team aren't we.

 

We can't win. If we were to reveal all, we would be pilloried for not respecting someone's privacy, sullying one's reputation when that person is unable to defend themselves. If we don't, we get accused of censorship, and it automatically gets assumed that we are the ones in the wrong.

 

It would appear your concern is with the word censorship and nothing else. Does the site not cut threads to pieces when the content does not meet acceptable standards. You do this without explanation which can be done privately through PM, is this not censorship of a sort.

 

As for "coming out of our shells", it is a condition of being part of the team that we sign a confidentiality agreement, so that even if we become privy to some personal information, we can not repeat it. Unfortunately, pointing the part of the rules flouted would tell you exactly why Laiste was banned, and however much I would like to, (and I do! you have NO idea!), I can not do that.

 

The site is in danger of losing its stakeholders because of failures to communicate at all levels

 

 

Got bloke flu so if I'm grumpy I apologise

[Bookworm]

I thought the site was run on contributions from people who can afford to pay doesn't that make those that have paid stakeholders in the site ergo the Admins may chair the meeting but should not necessarily have the final vote.

 

Far from it. Donations help towards the cost of running the site, but are from sufficient to cover that. The people who paid for this site from the start are Dave and Bankfodder. The donations, which help them carry the financial burden (as I am sure you'll realise, donations have all but dried up now the cases are being stayed one after the other) are just that, tokens of appreciations, they do not confer any "stakeholder" rights. If you're invited to a party and bring a cake, does that give you the right to dictate what's on the menu or who's on the guest list? ;-)

 

And how many really useful/knowledgeable people have left because of the poor attitude of 'some' on this site, a lot more methinks.

Your opinion, and you are totally entitled to it. Again speaking for myself, of the people I can remember leaving in a huff, the ones I would consider a loss is minimal. What's more, most of those have crept back in under a different ID, and that would be a whole new thread of its own.

 

Don't want publication, you're right. A statement to the effect that Laiste had been banned for offences against the terms & conditions of the site when the question was first asked would have been sufficient. This usually happens when someone is fired from a team, we are a team aren't we.

 

I believe that was actually done, as P1 pointed out. Can't be more specific, I wasn't around much at that point, so you'd have to go look see. Speaking for myself, no, I don't think it is warranted. As I have said before, the day I am no longer a moderator, I would not want it discussed or argued over. I expect people might notice, and if they do, they might want to ask me personally, I certainly would hate the idea of an announcement or speculation on the forum, which frankly amounts to little more than gossip on the market square.

 

It would appear your concern is with the word censorship and nothing else. Does the site not cut threads to pieces when the content does not meet acceptable standards. You do this without explanation which can be done privately through PM, is this not censorship of a sort.

Maybe because you caught me on a bad day, I am usually better at treating those accusations like water off a duck's back.

I could argue at length the why, and how things are done here, but why bother? Censorship is only one of the many other things we get accused of. Let me think, "ego-driven" "power-hungry" "PCness gone crazy", and in odd occasions "paid to make sure people go to court" are but a few I can remember... In a community as large as CAG, it is impossible to please all.

 

The site is in danger of losing its stakeholders because of failures to communicate at all levels

I doubt that very much. If there is one thing I have learned in my time here, is that for one person that leaves (for whatever reason, let's not forget that more people leave once they have recovered their money than for any other reason!), plenty more come in, learn, contribute, grow and share, which is after all the whole point and set-up of CAG.

 

As regards my "lofty position", well... LOL. It is assuming that as Admin, Supermods, Mods or Site Helpers, we are somewhat superior to the rest of the users. None that I can think of in the team make that assumption, I can therefore only guess that it is in your mind.

 

We rarely answer questions regarding our moderating decisions because we have learned that no matter what we answer, the response NEVER satisfies the questionner, and very soon, other people with their own agenda jump in and things turn ugly. Sad, but true. Let me tell you that once you have tried a few times to explain things in a sensible manner and are met with nothing but personal abuse and more criticism, there comes a point where you don't bother any more. Since you'll get lynched whether you spend 1/2 hour explaining things or not, you just don't.

 

Hope your man-flu gets better soon. I am blaming my own sensitivity today to the fact that I have been stuck in my chair all day unable to move, TENS machine and painkillers not even making a dent in the pain. I should be painting the woodwork in the bathroom.

[conar686]

At last a rational debate & rebuttal I had my say & got the response I was looking for thank you for your many explanations:). That wasn't too difficult now was it;).

 

I'm off for some day nurse - hope your pain gets more manageable though I've heard that as a last resort if TENS stop working a sharp rap on the head with a hammer may do the trick:-D

 

Cheers

 

MAC

[pt2537]

5lb lump hammer or 14 lb sledge:lol:

[conar686]

5lb lump hammer or 14 lb sledge:lol:

 

LOL - I think I got the sledge & Bookie got the lump hammer - I'm claiming a draw however.:grin:

[Lula]

you see, that is the difference between your confrontational approach and Bookies matter of fact approach, she won't have seen this as a contest

[conar686]

you see, that is the difference between your confrontational approach and Bookies matter of fact approach, she won't have seen this as a contest

 

Don't you start:p, Bookie & I have declared a truce and retired injured.

[Lula]

lol, ok, can i officially declare the matter closed and go and sit and watch In the Night Garden in peace?

[joesoap]

Banned, removed, one - sided versions; who cares? Get her back!!!!!!!

[JonCris]

*I* come across as rude and unhelpful? YOU have just accused the whole team collectively of "heavy-handed censorship" and *I* am rude? Wow. Talk of pots and kettles.

 

Fact 1: A ban doesn't come from moderators. It comes from Admin, in other words the site owners.

 

Fact 2: In the CAG history, the number of people banned has been less than 10, and maybe even less than 5. That alone should tell you something.

 

Fact 3: We can not publish on open forum the reasons why someone had been banned, and I personally (my personal opinion, NOT the forum's party line, mind!) think it is the right thing to do. If you were fired from a job, would you expect the managers to come out and tell everyone in the workplace why? Especially if you were at fault? Somehow, I don't think so.

 

We can't win. If we were to reveal all, we would be pilloried for not respecting someone's privacy, sullying one's reputation when that person is unable to defend themselves. If we don't, we get accused of censorship, and it automatically gets assumed that we are the ones in the wrong.

 

As for "coming out of our shells", it is a condition of being part of the team that we sign a confidentiality agreement, so that even if we become privy to some personal information, we can not repeat it. Unfortunately, pointing the part of the rules flouted would tell you exactly why Laiste was banned, and however much I would like to, (and I do! you have NO idea!), I can not do that.

 

By confirming that Liaste is banned for unspecified wrong doings without giving Liaste an opportunity to reply you are are giving a one-sided story - your side.

[HSBCrusher]

Don't you start:p, Bookie & I have declared a truce and retired injured.

I had my say & got the response I was looking for

lol, ok, can i officially declare the matter closed and go and sit and watch In the Night Garden in peace? :grin:

I agree.

[angel49]

By confirming that Liaste is banned for unspecified wrong doings without giving Liaste an opportunity to reply you are are giving a one-sided story - your side.

 

If people don't get the help they need because all the knowledgeable people have left or been sent to Coventry or they feel that the site is being run by power mad morons, they'll quickly go elsewhere! People that have debt problems, and/or Court claims are not interested in who runs the site or have any loyalty to those people, they just want good advice and assistance to get them out of trouble, it's as simple as that!

[tomterm8]

I don't know what laiste was banned for.

 

However, she was the only member that has been banned that i am aware of since I have been at CAG, except for another member who charged for services blatently, and was on another subforum.

 

that doesn't seem like a group of moderators* that are "power mad morons". I very, very, deeply reject such a view. And, Angel, if you believe that I don't understand why you are here? I would presume you are here, because the site owners have created a very helpful site that solves a heck of a lot of problems for people.

 

Ech, it's my last night of freedom, where I get to say what I think.

Frankly, I've heared enough of this talk. If you're that interested, why don't you just go an ask her? Otherwise, it's all just pointless speculation.

 

 

* In actual fact, the decision is made by the site owners.

[angel49]

Hi tomterm

I'm here for the same reason as many others,I needed help and guidance. I have received this help and guidance from various people on the site,yourself and Laiste included. I have every respect for what you and laiste are doing/have done for many on here.

Whatever it was that laiste was supposed to have done or not done isn't/shouldn't be held against the good work and advice she gave.

Maybe morons was not the right description, but reading what has been written in various posts,I can't help but think we are being treated like naughty children.

 

Why your last night of freedom?

[angel49]

Someone of her obvious skills, who has helped any number of people should not be banned without the opportunity of defending herself. I'm with Noom sounds like heavy handed censorship to me.

 

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Who tells you she didn't have that opportunity? Sounds to me like you're just happy to claim heavy handed censorship without knowing the facts.

 

 

 

For the record, I was "permanently suspended" from the site BEFORE I had the chance to explain to everyone what had happened. I replied to Robertxc's PM banning me and then drafted a post wishing everyone well and explaining the circumstances of my departure, for members to draw their own conclusions. When I tried to submit the message, I couldn't as I had already been banned. So for anyone to suggest that I have had an opportunity to put my side of things forward is complete and utter nonsense! I do not for one moment believe I did anything that I should reproach myself about, and from the feedback I am getting from many people, neither do they! I am wondering why certain a Mod is concerned about me putting my apparent(lol) "one-sided" view of things? People on CAG are not stupid, if I were to lie, they would see right through it! Credit members with some intelligence for goodness sake! Besides which, if Mods disagreed with my account of events, they could always refute what I'm saying! Treat members like adults, let them decide for themselves after being given the FACTS of the situation by both sides, how they feel about me being banned!

 

I send my very best wishes to everyone, I miss you all!

 

Love to all,

 

Laiste.xx

 

 

Right folks

Looks like I'm bound to be banished for fraternising with the enemy, Laiste really needed to be able to set the record straight.

[tomterm8]

Hi tomterm

I'm here for the same reason as many others,I needed help and guidance. I have received this help and guidance from various people on the site,yourself and Laiste included. I have every respect for what you and laiste are doing/have done for many on here.

Whatever it was that laiste was supposed to have done or not done isn't/shouldn't be held against the good work and advice she gave.

Maybe morons was not the right description, but reading what has been written in various posts,I can't help but think we are being treated like naughty children.

 

Why your last night of freedom?

 

Laiste was in many ways a fanatastic person, who helped a lot of people, and I admire her greatly for her knowledge of the law and her... sence of humour, and formidable debating tallent;)

 

Nothing detracts from this, and all I know is what's been said time and time again. Laiste broke one of the rules on the site. We're not allowed to know which one:( it would greatly interest us, I am sure... but, the general rules of the site say that the moderators and site helpers don't disrespect posters that are banned, by criticising them when they have no right or reply.

 

In this case, Laiste's rights override everyone elses.

 

Ultimatly, it's a little like the law... sometimes, the rules need to be enforced, even if it makes the judge look like an ass.

 

I admire the site owners, and the other members of the staff team, and any number of other people who aren't official members... but who help. Laiste was one of these posters, and it was a pity that it ended so badly for her.

 

But the site goes on.

 

EDIT: "Looks like I'm bound to be banished for fraternising with the enemy" Laiste is not the enemy, and I'm pretty sure none of the rules of the site allow anyone to ban you for fraternising with her.

[Maurice1977]

Sadly this site is turning into a joke. I have ready many thousands of posts and quite frankly the most useful, helpful and informative were those posted by Laiste. I have used her approach with some of my accounts and the results have been amazing, she has legal expertise in consumer credit and appears willing to provide this advice free! yes FREE and posts complete legal arguments, fully explained for the novice!

 

The mods appear helpful but many do not seem to have much real legal expertise - many simply directing people to standard letter templates in the reference section. Surely CAG is supposed to be more than a forum for re-claiming bank charges that are now indefinitely stayed!

 

I just can't understand it!

[conar686]

Tom

 

Like Laiste you, Rory, CB, & a few others are the most respected personalities on this site.

 

Should it ever be a choice between you all or this site because you gave some advice in good faith that happened to upset the 'opposition' and they threatened the site with closure if a retraction was not forthcoming & the person making it was banned from ever making comments again - which do you think the site 'owners' would pick, closure of the site or removal of you all. No brainer

 

My point being, and I have communicated with Laiste, the good she (you et al) do deserves some consideration - everyone sc**ws up sometime you guys deserve the benefit of any doubt and I for one will do my best to ensure you get it.

 

IMVHO Robert was in error in his pre-mature actions, Laiste should be allowed back on the site 'on parole' as it were. After all isn't that what democracy is all about 'every induhvidual is allowed an opinion and is free to express such'.

 

If Laiste broke the rules, no one died. Who suffers from the ban, not Laiste as she can open shop anywhere and I'm sure has already had offers to do so, the ones that suffer are this sites users who are deprived of her level headed 'often irascible' advice.

 

I am not advocating 'one rule for one & not for others' but hey can this site keep losing 'experts' as it is doing.

 

I do however think there is a hierarchy on this site that seems to think its unanswerable to anyone and that is blatantly wrong.

 

Bookie said yesterday that duh management take abuse when they do enter into debates but isn't that what the site is for, to debate the issues, if they get it in the ear - rightly or wrongly - thats part of the job description or it should be.

 

I've had my say again, I advocate Laiste reinstatement not cause I think she was totally innocent more cause the good she did far outways any perceived bad.

 

If anyone would like to challenge that statement then in the 'in the spirit of the site' please cite the appropriate legislation to support your case.

 

A bit of a ramble but I still got the 'bloke flu'

[Lula]

Sadly this site is turning into a joke. I have ready many thousands of posts and quite frankly the most useful, helpful and informative were those posted by Laiste. I have used her approach with some of my accounts and the results have been amazing, she has legal expertise in consumer credit and appears willing to provide this advice free! yes FREE and posts complete legal arguments, fully explained for the novice!

 

The mods appear helpful but many do not seem to have much real legal expertise - many simply directing people to standard letter templates in the reference section. Surely CAG is supposed to be more than a forum for re-claiming bank charges that are now indefinitely stayed!

 

I just can't understand it!

 

 

 

10 posts and a month of membership and you are an expert?

[Maurice1977]

Well I do have 15 years experience in intellectual property contract law and was brushing up on consumer credit so I feel I have an eye for good legal advice given I work with 4 lawyers.

 

Hmm, another judgmental shot from the hip from a mod. Serves to reinforce my earlier statement.

[pt2537]

well this has well and truly opened a can of worms

 

i must admit i have my own views on what happened to Laiste, i dont see any merit in the removal of someone with the knowledge she has, however im not in full possesion of all the facts from both sides so im not going to go criticising any mods

 

the fact however unfortunate it may be is that Laiste is no longer using this site. i think she should be allowed atleast the opportunity to post her side of the story but i guess that wont be allowed

 

the main thing is that we have still got people like Tomterm8,Discmandave,priorityone and rory32 who offer valuable advice to the people who need it

 

regards

paul

[angel49]

well this has well and truly opened a can of worms

 

i must admit i have my own views on what happened to Laiste, i dont see any merit in the removal of someone with the knowledge she has, however im not in full possesion of all the facts from both sides so im not going to go criticising any mods

 

the fact however unfortunate it may be is that Laiste is no longer using this site. i think she should be allowed atleast the opportunity to post her side of the story but i guess that wont be allowed

 

the main thing is that we have still got people like Tomterm8,Discmandave,priorityone and rory32 who offer valuable advice to the people who need it

 

regards

paul

 

Hi Paul

Check post #42- message from Laiste

 

Regards

[pt2537]

oh, ok, must have missed that post.