Droyds debt recovery.

[The GodMother]

I forgot to tell everyone but i wrote to droyds telling them that i am disputing the debt i wrote regarding both the debts.

 

this is what i put in writing to them.

 

I am writing regarding the above mentioned account number.

I have wrote to Vertbaudet requesting a copy of my credit agreement with them regarding this account. Please find copy of letter enclosed.

I understand that as of the date l wrote to Vertbaudet I am allowed to withhold payments against this account until they provide me with a true copy of my credit agreement which I will be doing.

I also understand you are in NO way allowed to add charges or interest or attempt to ask me for payment or force me to make payment.

Unless they provide me with the true copy of the credit agreement I signed within 12 working days then they will be in default once they are in default they cannot pursue me for the debt nor instigate legal proceedings. If I then have not received the true copy of the credit agreement within 30 calendar days after the original 12 days expire then they then they commit an offence and the debt becomes unenforceable until they can locate the executed agreement.

If after either the original 12 days or the added 30 days have passed and you OR Vertbaudet attempted to enforce the agreement by writing to me to demand payment or telephoning me to demand payment or passing this on to the courts or another debt collection agency then you would be breaking the law and I would be able to report you and Vertbaudet to the fos and trading standards who will be taking up the investigation.

 

this was without the spelling mistakes. have not heard from them by letter or phone which is a good thing. WIll keep everyone inform about what is going on.

 

The GodMother

[pt2537]

Just one small observation,

 

they can instigate legal proceedings against you the CCA 1974 doesnt stop them from doing this, its the fact that they have failed to comply with the CCA 1974 which would form your defence in court and the judge would not be able to issue an enforcement order unless a true copy of the executed agreement was produced in court, as it stands they are in the sh1te

 

regards

paul

[The GodMother]

well lets just hope they are very stupid and dont notice my mistake.

[pt2537]

No need to hope, we know they are

[The GodMother]

oh it now turns out that neither vertbaudet or empire stroes got the letter about the cca before the postal strike.

[The GodMother]

Well i dont know what is going on but today i recieved a letter from droyds regarding both vertbaudet and empire stores.

 

They both say.

 

Thank you for the £1.00 payment towards your account this now brings the balance don to £XX.XX

 

We will be in touch when your query has been dealt with.

 

These letters were date the 6th october. Now from my guesses i am predictiong that they got the letter on the 3rd.

 

I dont have any proof of what day the letter was signed for as royal mail still cannont provide me with this. Any ideas on what day i should say they got the letter and start counting from?

[pt2537]

Well you have proof that the letters were in thier possession from the 6th so really you would need ot base it upon the 6th and count from there in the absence of firm proof from royal mail

 

thats my opinion of course,

 

 

regards

 

paul

[The GodMother]

things only get better atm.

 

Royal mails website says that one is not delivered still and one was delivered today. Know knowing that they would have had to have recieved the letter at least the thursday, They were closed on friday for staff training as i had a telephone call from them thursday to asking about my letter which is above, then what do i do. Also as royal mail were on strike the friday and saturday how can they say the letter was recieved on the 6th being the saturday?

[pt2537]

isn't it the case that they only update the website when the delivery personnel return the signed for slips, this could be why there is a discrepancy. i dont know the way these things work but i remember being told this was the case bythe postie at work

 

regards

paul

[The GodMother]

oh and one thing i forgot to ask. Should i see when the postal order was cashed. If so could i use it as proof to say what day the letter was recieved?

[The GodMother]

Well things only get better.

 

Recieved a letter today from droyds regarding the vertbaudet account Dated the 4th october 2007.

 

What they have said is as follows.

 

I attach a copy of the standard agreement which you would have signed in accordance with the advice given to you at the time you established your home shopping account with Vert Baudet. You appear to have acted in a way which indicates that an agreement was in placing orders, recieving goods, returning goods within the approval period and making payments. Copy statements showing all transactions are also enclosed. These enclosures satify the requirements of a Section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in regards to supplying a copy of the agreement and accounts statements.

 

I must , however, correct your statement that we are under an obligation to provide a facsimile cpoy of a signed agrement. The regulation only requires us to provide a copy of the agreement and it is not necessary to provide a signature box. I refer you Regulation3- Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI.NO.1557)

I look forward to recieveing a offer of payment on the balance outstanding.

 

Yours sincerley

 

Miss J Wall.

For Droyds Debt and Collection Services.

[pt2537]

there you go, regulation 3

 

3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument

or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act

shall be a true copy thereof.

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy--

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor,

hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the

Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed

agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an

agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

© in the case of any copy of an unexecuted agreement delivered or sent to the debtor or hirer under section 62 of

the Act, the name and address of the debtor or hirer; and

[(d) in the case of any copy of an executed agreement given to the debtor under section 77(1) of the Act for fixedsum

credit, or under section 78(1) for running-account credit, under which a person takes any articles in pawn, any

description of the article taken in pawn.]

 

 

hmm they are right, but the neglect to say that for a court they would need to produce a copy of the original executed agreement

 

was the agreement they sent blank?

[The GodMother]

Now in regards to the above i can scan a copy of the agreement that they have produced but i can only get it as a thumb nail.

 

I can safely say the agreement is only signed by Vert Baudet and has as fasr as i can see all the prescribed term but no details regarding me or my signature.

 

PLEASE COMPLETE.

 

customer number ................ BLANK

NAME................................ BLANK

ADDRESS........................... BLANK

 

This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

 

Signature(s) of Customer(s)......................BLANK

Date(s) of signature(s).............................BLANK

 

Any advice would be welcome

 

Thank you

 

Chrissi

[The GodMother]

the argeement they sent

[pt2537]

ok well littlewoods sent me a blank agreeemnt with my name printed on to it. this is what i sent them in response,

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with incorrect personal details simply printed onto it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until 31st May 2007 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. If you continue to try to enforce this debt without complying with my original request you will have committed a criminal offence and your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[pt2537]

"I attach a copy of the standard agreement which you would have signed in accordance with the advice given to you at the time you established your home shopping account with Vert Baudet"

 

yeah right, a copy of the standard agreement. not a copy of the agreement you signed which is required by the 1974 act and S.I 1557

 

they have basically said in their own words that what they have sent is non complaint. thats my view anyway,

 

anyone else of the same opinion?

 

regards

paul

[The GodMother]

ty again paul.

 

I assumed it was not correct be did require confirmation.

[The GodMother]

This

[The GodMother]

This morning i recieved another letter from Droyds regarding my Empire account. I had cca'd them. the letter i recieved back from them is basically the same as Vertbaudet but it does have sum differences.

 

 

Dear The GodMother.

 

I attach a copy of the standard agreement which you would have signed in accordance with advice given you at the time of your home shopping account with Empire stores. You appear to have acted in a way which indicates that an agreement was signed as you have conducted the account for sometime by placing orders, recieving goods, returning good within the approval period and makeing payments. I attach a sample of Your Guide to shopping with Empire sent to you with the agreements. Copy statements showing all transactions are also enclosed. These Enclosures satisfy the requirements of section 77-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in regard to supplying a copy of the agreement and accounts statement.

 

I must , however, correct your statement that we are under an obligation to provide a facsimile copy of a signed credit agreement. The regulations only require us to provide a copy of the agreement and it is not necessary to provide a signature box. I refer you to Regulation3-Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI.NO.1557).

 

I look forward to recieving an offer of payment on the balance outstanding and would like to thank you for your kind assistance.

 

Your Faithfully

 

Miss J Wall

For Droyds Debt and Collection services.

[pt2537]

another load of bowlarks

[The GodMother]

Regards to the above post.

 

There is not any type of agreement in the documentation they have sent me.

 

All there is is the booklet they provided me by post which contains:-

 

how to order information,

buying goods and cash back information,

home approval and returns information,

information on how to recieve a discount,

an order form,

buying with confidence which cotains the mail order traders association codes of practise conditions of sale data protection act 1984 consumer credit act 1974 your rights to cancel and IMPORTANT YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY YOUR RIGHTS. ( this bit shoots them in the backside will explain under star in a bit)*

 

The documention also has with it a comsumer shopping card and details on how to fill one out, with a copy of all my statment from when the account was opened.

 

* Now to the bit that shoots them in there backside*

 

It says this.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which must be satisfied while the agreement is made. If they are not, the creditor cannot enforce the agreement against you without a court order. The Act also gives you a number of rights. You have the right to settle this agreement at any time giving notice in writing and paying off all amounts payable under the agreement. If you would like to know more about the protection and the remedies provided under this Act, you should contact either your local Trading Standards Department or your nearest citizens advice bureau.

 

As they have not provided me with any type of credit agreement is this debt enforcable?

[pt2537]

the simple answer is this...

 

ive got as much chance of getting you to pay me 5000000 pounds as tehy have of enforcing that.

 

No Agreement = NO ENFORCABLE DEBT

[The GodMother]

so does that go for both agreement and can i send a copy of your fcuk off letter you post earlier to droyds regarding both accounts?

[pt2537]

the first account the letter is fairly relevent although i would amend the part which refers to a copy of the agreement with my name printed onto it as what they have snet it a Blank agreement with nothing printed onto it

 

the second agreement they never sent so that needs pointing out to them

 

but both need telling to go away politely, (yeah right)

[The GodMother]

is this politely enough.

 

If you dont go away i will set my dogs on you?

 

Loosly translated to got away or i will have you done for harrassement.