Penalty Notice: How absolutely awful. Who are the parents here? Will the doctor who signed the sick note provide a duplicate to send with the appeal? The Advisory Centre for Education have lots of info and a free helpline. Best wishes, Margaret.

'Are there any rules ......' : Only the ones that DWATO are making up as they go along. Margaret.

Fudge and sticky toffee pudding for dessert:?:: To remove the taste of 'highly unpleasant and deceitful bluster'? My freedom of info request, dated 21 July 12, asked; 'In a parliamentary written answer, dated 17 July 12, Mr Grayling wrote, '...... clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date'. For an audio recorded work capability assessment? Yes or no? 'Following Mr Grayling's parliamentary written answer of 17 July 12; are there any circumstances wherein Atos can refuse to comply with an advance written request for Atos to audio record a work capabilityassessment? Yes or no? Received (overdue) response from Work n Pensions, dated August 2012, about three hours ago; 'Atos will continue to make reasonable endeavours to provide recording facilities where a request is made in advance. However it would not be reasonable to delay the assessment indefinitely for this purpose. Currently, appointments may be deferred for up to four weeks for any circumstance, including the non-availability of recording equipment. Therefore outside of this four week period, some claimants may be asked to attend an unrecorded assessment, to ensure a determination can be made on their ability to work in a timely manner.' For the moment, offered without comment, cos I'd get . Margaret .

CIB/3117/2000: Again! Beginning to wish that I'd never mentioned it. So far as I know, the legal right to an audio recorded Atos assessment is still in never, never land, and likely to remain there, #385 of this thread. :estellyn: My interpretation of the case suggests to me that some present claimants, who've previously been shafted by Atos, may be able to use it as precedent to argue good cause (very subjective) for refusal to submit to an unrecorded assessment. Especially in the wake of a long line of parliamentary written answers and freedom of info requests on the issue. Not to mention the number of overturned, because of inaccurate transcription by Atos assessors, Jobcentreplus decisions. Whether anyone tries is personal choice. '...... recording is now being offered at Atos' expense ......' :?:. Many of the previous pages in this thread are about Atos not offering an audio recorded assessment to a claimant, then failing to advise said claimant of the conditions for audio recording. :worried 33: We shall continue to agree to disagree? Until such time as someone has the stickability to take the issue to a future tribunal. During the recent Panorama, Mr Grayling suggested that tribunals feel sorry for appellants. He is wrong. No debate needed . Margaret.

CIB/3117/2008: Don't remember saying that I was right or that :Worried 33: was wrong. None of us will know until such time as a similar case comes before a future tribunal. Margaret.

flumps1976: From :Nystagmite: 'flumps has given out some wonderful advice......' Hear hear! Don't know much about Jobseekers, but what I do know I've learnt from you. Unlike some as shall be nameless, we don't all claim to be right all the time. Both :antone: and :Nystagmite: were very gracious to me when I misread a post. Have a cheery , Margaret.

Hi Worried33: CIB/3117/2008: Can we agree to disagree? Clearly we have a difference of interpretation concerning the reasons for the decision. 'Tis also clear that Mr Duncan Smith's ignoring the judge's directions that accompanied the decision; 'The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to arrange for the appellant to be provided with details, in writing, of the conditions under which an interview or examination may be tape-recorded.' Anyone received said details in writing, pre or post 5 July 12, following a knockback from Atos, for an assessment to be recorded by Atos?????? :?: Sincerely, Margaret.

The Atossers: Will drive us all to destitution more like. My friend's already lost her home and degree classification, courtesy of Atos. They have a strange effect on spelling as well. Apologies for the mistake. Clearly, the appalling standard of their creative transcriptions is contagious. '...... Atos will 'cure you' you just have to have faith ...... and a few :flypig:. Off to find some (prescribed) lorazepam. Margaret

The Atossers: This is the lot we've got a partially upheld complaint against but; DWATO want to wait for a full tribunal. Seventeen months, and counting, since the messical. Meanwhile the taxpayer's paid thrice; extra medical consultations and drugs, not to mention expensive ongoing psychotherapy. Margaret.

sja75: I've crossed with :honeybee13: Take five, then follow her advice. You can read my post later. Margaret.

sja75: 'Have I missed something here?' 'Fraid so. There isn't a standard reply form for a tribunal submission. Think the form you returned to them in April was probably the pre-hearing enquiry form which asks whether you want to turn up and talk to the tribunal. A submission to the tribunal is your evidence, written or oral, explaining how you believe you satisfy the legal criteria to be awarded the benefit. Put simply, you need to accumulate 15 points against the employment and support allowance descriptors or qualify through exceptional/special circumstances. Google ESA214 for further info. Obviously written evidence becomes more important if you can't turn up to give oral evidence. Sorry, can't help with whether or not you'll be well enought to turn up. Know zilch about alcohol issues or condition management programmes. Wishing you well, Margaret.

missy2006: Your choice, so long as it's signed. It is a GL24 form and you can print one from the internet. Make sure your name and National Insurance Number are on any extra sheets. Margaret.

honeybee13: 'I've certainly learnt something.' Me too. Kept out of this one yesterday cos it was complicated by the alcohol issue. sja75: 'Want to win that tribunal?' :honeybee13's: sticky is an excellent starting point for a tribunal submission. We used it for a complaint to Atos which was partially upheld. Thankyou :honeybee13: Another guide to writing a tribunal submission, that we found useful: Factsheet 36 on the Disability Rights UK website. Coincidentally, I've seen three tribunal decision notices in as many weeks. All of them upheld. All of them included the phrase: 'The Tribunal received cogent oral evidence' Get there if you can, best wishes, Margaret.

odset: Just caught up with your win at tribual. Congrats. :whoo: Tribunal reccommendations for reassessment are very patchy. Decisions from our local centre still don't have a section for the judge's opinion. Another pilot, for DWATO to ignore? Another postcode lottery? Margaret.

europa16: '......their lack of a working printer' ?????? Excuses, excuses, excuses ?????? Legislation for the 365 days time limit was retrospective. Meanies. Have you had any employment and support payments, with the work related component, during your current claim? If not, previous advice stands. Good luck, Margaret.

MissRogue: Your support worker should be able to help you cope. It's part of his/her job. Usually the interviews are one every four to six weeks and you can take Mum or Sis with you. Have a cheery , Margaret.

Miss Rogue: Think you're going to have to find someone you trust to help you deal with this. Back to your doctor? Mind? What help did you have with Atos/at tribunal? Best wishes, Margaret.

Clarification, or lack thereof: The poetry was intended to be illustrative of DWATO's contradictory statements on the issue of audio recorded messicals. Personally, I don't think we'll get a definitive answer cos DWATO don't want to give us one. CIB/3117/2008: The appellant's appeal against failure to submit to a non-recorded medical examination (yes, a medical examination, not a messical) was upheld. Many of us have good reasons for wanting our interviews recorded. Not least of which, is the sheer number of the Atossers' creative transcriptions that get overturned at tribunal. Onward and upward. Compact discs are a lot cheaper than tribunals.:flame:Margaret.

MissRogue: The ConDems aren't known for caring about mental health issues. Congrats for having got through the Atos encounter and the tribunal. Now to the practicalities: Most work focused interviews are on a one-to-one basis. Probably difficult for you but better than work provider groups. Are you comfy with using a phone? If so, you may be able to do them by phone. At the discretion of an advisor you may, I emphasise the word 'may' cos it doesn't happen very often, be able to get them deferred but they can't be cancelled. You getting any treatment for your anxiety? If you have one, a community nurse or phychologist should be able to support you through the interviews. Best wishes, Margaret.

A sort of clarification: 'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive' (by Walter Scott). From Margaret.

RaeUk: Deleted - no longer relevant. But have the :hug: anyway. Margaret.

worried33: Well done you for getting an answer out DWATO. :high5: My comments on the answer? Little wonder Grayling's sidekicks aren't replying to my freedom of info request. Are there any limits to DWATO's apparent duplicity? Probably not. Oh well, back to CIB/3117/2008. With the obvious problem of no pennies while appealing a failure to attend. ConDems don't do compassion. Margaret. Back to my red circles.

Big Shooz: 1. Yes. Could be two to four months, such is their backlog and reluctance to pay. 2. Yes. Unlimited work focused interviews but, for the moment, he can't forced to apply for work. 3. No. Once Jobcentreplus have acknowledged the decision, preferably in writing! 5. No. Don't assume Jobcentreplus know until you've received a written acknowledgement of the decision. No unfit note may mean no assessment rate till they've caught up. 6. No idea. Was the ESA85 in the bundle from Jobcentreplus? Should be a prognosis towards the end of it. 4. and 7. Need more detail than should be put on an open forum. Congrats on staying the course and winning at tribunal.:whoo: Best wishes to both of you, Margaret.

Nystagmite: Not everyone's suicidal, pre Atos. After Atos?? Cost my friend her home and her degree classification. Best wishes with your eventual choice of claim, Margaret.

Crazy Diamond: Tut, tut, tut, you're so unfair to the media. They're probably waiting for some guidance from Caxton House, like the rest of us. Concerning this particular conundrum; I've had a freedom of info request into Work n Pensions since 20 July. Sent a copy of Mr Grayling's parliamentary written answer, dated 17 July, with a copy of the Atos statement and asked for clarification. Thus far, their silence on the issue is deafening. Atos are happy for work capability assessments to be recorded?? You could've fooled me. Margaret.