katrina123: Whatever else happens you need to complete that ESA50 and send it back within the deadline to secure your employment and support assessment rate. Failure to return the questionnaire without good cause will allow Jobcentreplus to close your claim completely. At some point during the last two years (although from your past and present posts it's difficult to see where) you must have received a decision from Jobcentreplus that you've appealed to tribunal. If you've phoned, or written to, the tribunals admin support and they've comfirmed your appeal is still pending you can pursue it. Without asking Jobcentreplus. For whatever reason Citizens Advice can't support you through this and, with the best will in the world, there's a limit to the advice that can be offered over an internet forum. Is there an alternative welfare rights service in your area? Or a support group for your condition? Town Halls and libraries often hold contact details. 'So best option to appeal this decision and complain?' Yes, but I think you're going to need some face to face advice to help you cope. Sincerely, Margaret.

The Guardian 3 September 12: Not got a clue how to do web links but there's one at the beginning of :estellyn:'s thread about destitution and forced labour for employment and support allowance claimants. Margaret.

katrina123: Even if your member of parliament's blue it's part of his/her job to sort problems with government departments. If you feel able to, make an appointment to see him/her during a constituency surgery. Take your paperchase with you and tell it to him/her how you've told it to us on CAG. Too daunting? Write to him/her instead or follow Jobcentreplus' written complaints procedure. Friend, relative, support group for your condition? Anyone to help you with this? Praps through your general practitioner? This needs sorting, like a year ago. Sincerely, Margaret.

katrina123: What a totally unacceptable nightmare. Your tribunals admin support centre will be able to confirm the status of your appeal. Google Jobcentreplus Service Standards. Page 14 onwards of the booklet tells you how to make a formal written complaint. Given the complexity of this particular fiasco, any chance your Member of Parliament will be sympathetic? Sincerely, Margaret. Not starting another debate with :estellyn: there's two separate issues here; As your claim's going round in circles a formal complaint about how you've been treated may help to get it sorted.

Amykins: Before we go any further, your husband/partner will be able to stay with you throughout the tribunal hearing. Most tribunal panels don't bombard appellants with questions or pressurise them. Searching questions, yes, but you'll be able to answer in your own time. Towards the end they'll listen to anything that you or your companion want to say in support of your claim. There's an exception to every rule but many of us, including me, find tribunals easier to cope with than Atos. Not much to be done about the fluster and stress but they won't hold it against you. From your post I can't work out the timeline. Seems to have departed from the norm which may explain the posponement. Second guessing the outcome of tribunals is outwith the remit of Jobcentreplus and they should know better. Neither do they have any choice about talking to your representative so long as the arrangement has been set up correctly. Best wishes. Have a cheery . Margaret.

The Guardian 3 September 12: Among the comments; 'They insisted on recording it (an Atos assessment)...... At the conclusion of the 'examination' the machine gave an error message.' The asessor refused to test the playback claiming it would breach data protection. A genuine mistake? Or their latest 'get out' clause? Margaret.

'sorry, pet hate of mine calling it a medical ......' disability assessment - sort of, maybe, possibly, if the assessors listened to us face to face assessment - nah, the assessors hide behind their LIMA screens interview under caution - feels like it messical - says it all Shall save 'health care professionals' for another day. Margaret.

MrNobody: I'd forget the covering letter for now cos Atos are unlikely to read it. They have enough trouble reading ESA50s. A letter, sent to your friend's benefit delivery centre in support of her claim, and giving details of her problems with the prescribed activities should be read by the decision maker cos they're supposed to consider all the evidence. Jobcentreplus admit to cross referencing claims to prevent fraud. Eligibility for housing/council tax benefit is determined by low income, not other benefits. Appeals. Way way ahead of yourself but I know you're anxious so; The GL24 appeal form is readily available, to download from the internet, or for the asking, from Jobcentreplus. Until the law changes next April, you can ask Jobcentreplus to pay assessment rate employment and support once they've acknowledged a valid appeal. Appeals are dammed hard work and very stressful but winnable if the appellant meets the criteria for the benefit. Best wishes, Margaret.

Or no capacity for work? When the Atossers recommend disallowance of incap and couch surfing; four weeks before final law exams. Margaret.

'getting you through your WCA, and appeal' insurance: According to Mr Duncan Smith we've already got it. Can't remember where, but I read one newspaper article wherein he was moaning that, 'the site we don't mention' offers refunds if an application for a disability benefit is unsuccessful. We wish. Margaret.

abc123def: 'this ESA85A I can ask for is what they have written or created based on my ESA50?' Yes, if we've interpreted the letter correctly. Reading the previous two posts, from them as knows more than me, the only way to be sure is for someone to contact your benefit delivery centre. Hope you don't, but should you get an invitation for a face to face assessment the recommended 'space' will be on the ESA85 report. Procedure for accessing a copy (from two working days after the assessment) is the same. Margaret.

abc123def: A badly worded letter that I think you've interpreted correctly. The recommended 'space' will be stated on the ESA85A. Copy can be requested, by phone or in writing, from your benefit delivery centre. Someone else can phone for you but the call centre will ask to speak to you very briefly cos of data protection. Margaret.

tony1512: This is going to be short and sweet cos I should've been elsewhere like fifteen minutes ago. Trawl back through the pages of this thread and you'll find my plan B, which is taking notes. The Atossers don't like it but even they admit it's legal. You may have to wave the relevant pages of section 4 of their handbook at the assessor. (Copy of the handbook on the Work n Pensions website.) Should you be technology literate (I'm not, but trying to learn in case I need it) this thread also discusses covert recording for them as can cope with it. Like notes, it's legal, but unfairly, it carries a risk of Atos saying you failed to attend if you're caught. Best wishes, Margaret.

tony1512: Errr ...... probably not. Even if you do have your personal sound engineer in tow. The procedure for audio recorded messicals changed late last year. Revised guidance finally made it into the Atosssers' work capability assessment handbook on 5 July 12. Current procedure for getting one's messical audio recorded? Read the preceeding thirty-five pages of this thread and you'll be as wise as the rest of us. Or not. Every statement from DWATO contradicts its' predecessor. 'everyone going through reassessment should ask for a recording'? My personal opinion is that everyone going through reassessment, or initial assessment, who wants an audio record of their interview should ask for it. Not everyone wants, or can wait for, an audio record because of: Being stuck on assessment rate employment and support for months on end. The sheer stress of fighting for an audio recorded messical. Not feeling comfortable with being recorded or the sound of one's own voice. Should you be facing an Atos appointment that you want recorded; Good luck, Margaret.

'special arrangements needed for the assessment, so why bother asking?' A very good question to which I've yet to find an answer. Invariably, the appointment clerk's explanation is, 'I don't get to see the IB/ESA50'. Margaret.

Hi reallymadwoman: For me personally, no news is good news. I'm in no hurry to darken their doors. Nevertheless I fully understand that we all have different ways of trying to cope with this persecution. On a practical note: Several years ago, we had a ten months gap between an IB50 and seeing the Atossers. Jobcentreplus refused to issue a new questionnaire but accepted an up to date statement about changes in the claimant's condition. Sounds like you've got some very recent medical evidence to sling at them as well. Wishing you luck with your complaint, Margaret.

The Indie 29 August 12: 'Atos has 98 recording machines ......' 98 - 11 (assuming the broken ones are now repaired) = 87 new machines. Wow!! Between 148 Atos centres. Double wow!! Soon have one per centre. Are we convinced:?: Can we justify this expense to the taxpayer:?: A cynical Margaret.

The Atossers engulfed by disability tests row? We live in hope, n them as believe . There was a full page article in the i on 27 August. Margaret.

'repetitive computer generated claptrap': Yep. A very good descriptor. stephen2010: More seriously, CAG has loads of advice about appeals if you need it. Margaret.

Cotswold 1964: 'Are Atos allowed to call me for a medical without having recently filled in an ESA50?' Yes. 'Can I refuse to attend a medical until they have considered what I have to say on an ESA50?' No. Regulation 21 of the Employment n Support Allowance Regulations 2008; '...... information ...... as may be requested in the form of a questionnaire;' We had this senario with a ten month gap. Jobcentreplus refused a new questionnaire but accepted an up to date statement about the claimant's condition at the time of the messical. Since then, they've put a downloadable ESA50 on the internet. Statement or 'stolen' ESA50, take it with you on the day and try to insist the assessor reads it. Easier said than done, you may have to wave the handbook at him/her. For a variety of reasons not every claimant has to complete an ESA50 but completed ones, together with extras, are evidence. Section 3.1.2 of the Work Capability Assessment Handbook. 'In preparation for the interview ...... Any evidence brought by the claimant must be read ......' Forget the appointment mess up from the ever unhelpful desk. They've already put it to rights. Good luck, Margaret.

count orlok: Yes. Written subject access request to your local benefit delivery centre. Or, there's a downloadable form on the Work n Pensions website. Jobcentreplus don't charge for subject access requests. Theory is a response within forty days but ...... May not be complete, mine wasn't. Margaret.

Memory Lane: My claim history threw up a 1986 invalidity benefit report from the Divisional Medical Office. Half a side of handwritten A4. Mrs xxxxxx is incapable of work because of xxxxxx. Decisions made by medics treating the claimant were checked at random by officialdom. The system wasn't perfect (we got accused of colluding with doctors, for the doctor to get 10% of the payout) but it was a hell of a lot better than what we've got now. Suspect the 1980's taxpayer lost less to fraud than the ConDems spend on Atos and unnecessary angst ridden tribunals. Margaret.

Cobblers: For future reference, the quickest way to access a copy ESA85 is via a phone call to your benefit delivery centre two working days after the messical. From where you are now a phone call or written request to your benefit delivery centre may or may not get you a copy before the appeal deadline. Should all else fail, there will be a copy of the ESA85 in the response to your appeal from Jobcentreplus, otherwise known as 'the bundle'. Did Jobcentreplus offer to send a GL24? If not, there's a downloadable copy on the internet. Best wishes, Margaret.

Oh Nystagmite: LIMA and logic Atos and logic Is it possible to find DWATO and logic in the same sentence You surely ask to much, Margaret.

Employment and Support Allowance Descriptors: The descriptors, and the ESA50 form, changed from 28 March 2011. A written subject access request to Jobcentreplus will get you a copy of your last ESA50 form, and any other info you want from your claim history, eventually! They don't charge for subject access requests. In theory Jobcentreplus have forty days to comply with your request but like everything else ...... I waited fifty-seven days for a recent request. Don't be tempted to delay returning the ESA50. Written by :leemack: there's a guide to completing the first part of the ESA50 among the stickies. Best wishes, Margaret. Edit: Whilst a letter is fine, I've just remembered the downloadable subject access request form on the Work n Pensions website. Unfortunately :leemack: couldn't finish the second part of the guide. Good luck with the form, Margaret.