Hello,

my boyfriend works away from home fri to mon,

on fri he got a phonecall from enforcement officer saying they are in the property and taking control of his possessions.

They said they would be changing the locks and that he would no longer be entitled to access the property.

They had damaged the lock of a property unrelated to us but belonging to same landlord.

The landlord arrived, spoke to them, I do not know the content of the discussion.

The EO phoned my bf again, saying they would return next week (ie from tomorrow).

They did not say when.

I was not privy to these discussions.

This is for large outstanding utility debt.

I imagine they have court papers/warrant.

It is a very large space, full with lots of what is essentially junk.

I don't know what to expect on our arrival back.

He has been in major problems across the spectrum of his life really at the moment and hasn't been opening his mail for months.

I have to at this point assume they have written to him correctly etc.

This is a whole other issue, obviously lots needs addressing on his side, but it's not what my question is today.

There is one other tenant at the property.

I don't live there, I rent a room elsewhere.

I obviously spend a lot of time there though and have a lot of belonings there,

one thing springing to mind is an expensive musical instrument and a cheap laptop that has personal data for example.

The other tenant lives in a separate building, but shares our building for storage of things.

He arrived home to the separate building, with a broken lock, his items of worth laid out neatly with his passport, and £150 cash missing from a drawer.

We have no way of returning there until tomorrow morning (Monday).

It's messy.

My questions really are these:

If my items are still there, I presume they will have been looked at/assessed like the other tenant, what would be the consequence if I now just took them away?

The premises is technically a commercial premises but it's rented legally off the landlord and it is where he also lives.

It's like a granny flat but it's all attached internally.

Can they change the lock and stop access?

Is this indefinite?

(I realise the landlord may choose to do this himself, but aside from that, I mean the EO)

From what I've read, assuming they have left the correct re-visiting documentation, the soonest we can expect them back is Tuesday?

Obviously, there's much bigger questions and issues going on in this..

but I cannot do this for him and I have been trying to assist and encourage etc for a long time.

At this point my main concern is it's outcome and effect on me and my belongings as third party.

They cannot deny you access to the premises unless they are carrying out an eviction. For a utility debt, they cant change locks etc I believe - Well unless they have a warrant to force entry...

Have they entered the property with a warrant to replace the meters possibly?

As said, please provide us more info. We will try to help where we can.

They cannot deny you access to the premises unless they are carrying out an eviction. For a utility debt, they cant change locks etc I believe - Well unless they have a warrant to force entry...

Have they entered the property with a warrant to replace the meters possibly?

 

As said, please provide us more info. We will try to help where we can.

All sounds a bit odd.

Wonder whether forced entry was in regard to a meter issue e.g instal prepayment meter, disconnect supply. In such situations, they have been known to change locks after gaining entry and they then provide a key for the new lock.

Could an enforcement officer have visited at the same time, in regard to the debt owed i.e CCJ. It is alleged that money was possibly taken when the debtor was absent, which i did not think was allowed.

Until the full story is provided with accurate info, i am not sure it is worth speculating much more.

All sounds a bit odd.

 

Wonder whether forced entry was in regard to a meter issue e.g instal prepayment meter, disconnect supply. In such situations, they have been known to change locks after gaining entry and they then provide a key for the new lock.

 

Could an enforcement officer have visited at the same time, in regard to the debt owed i.e CCJ. It is alleged that money was possibly taken when the debtor was absent, which i did not think was allowed.

 

Until the full story is provided with accurate info, i am not sure it is worth speculating much more.

Very True - The.Observer - Would you mind filling us in with as much more info as possible. We'd love to help

Anything else you can provide would be great

Thanks so much for your response, and sorry for being unclear.

Firstly, was the utility debt for a business account or a private account? If it was a private account, had the bailiffs ever visited previously? I am a bit concerned that entry was forced here and I would recommend that your BF contacts the bailiffs and asks them on what grounds they have forced entry to his home.

It's a business account.

They may have visited when we were not there but they have not been into the property or met/spoken with us prior to this.

Secondly, the bailiff is required to give you two days notice of his intention to enter the premises so I'd say that it would be Friday at the very earliest that he can return. As I am reading your post, I can't see how the bailiff has a right to force entry and your BF would be within his rights to refuse permission to enter. This won't help if the bailiff thinks he has a right to enter, which is why it is important to find out why they believe that they can force entry.

I think that we need to know the answer to that question before we can really advise further. As there is some cash missing from the neighbours home, this needs to reported by him, ASAP. We need to also know what paperwork has been left and whether there is any reference to the £150. On that note, you need to ascertain whether the bailiff was using a body worn camera at the time of the visit.

I guess I won't know full answers to these until tomorrow morning.

 

Finally, would you mind elaborating on the building please? Is there one main locked door and then further locked doors for each individual flat? Are any of the rooms used for commercial purposes? Would it be reasonable to assume that the neighbours room was a business premises?

Sorry, I see reading back just how unclear I was on this. It's a commercial warehouse building, with a little flat attached which is accessed through the commercial building. the flat does have it's own separate access but that's currently blocked on the inside, we'd have to properly break in to use it (not blocked intentionally; just never used so there's big furniture behind it inside). My BF lives in the flat/warehouse. He uses the warehouse section for work for woodworking and storing perishable stock.

The other tenant actually does not live in the building, he lives in a mobile home separate to the building but he rents the upstairs of the commercial building for storage. There is the one locked door that isn't in use I described above, and one locked door to the warehouse. The door to flat from within warehouse, is only manually lockable from inside, not a key/lock job. No, I don't think it would be reasonable to assume the neighbours space was a business premises, but they probably assumed it was just my BFs, however they clearly had his passport in hand and it's obvious on entry someone lives in it, so taking the cash is dodgy I feel, but yes I'll advised housemate to follow that up.

All sounds a bit odd.

 

Wonder whether forced entry was in regard to a meter issue e.g instal prepayment meter, disconnect supply. In such situations, they have been known to change locks after gaining entry and they then provide a key for the new lock.

 

Could an enforcement officer have visited at the same time, in regard to the debt owed i.e CCJ. It is alleged that money was possibly taken when the debtor was absent, which i did not think was allowed.

 

Until the full story is provided with accurate info, i am not sure it is worth speculating much more.

It's on behalf of the waterboard. I don't know the figure for what he owes them but he has told me that he hasn't paid it for at least 2 years. He hasn't opened his mail so I'm limited on important details, and neither of us are there right now. I basically just assumed he must have CCJ giving them right to enter. I won't know what documentation they've left until I'm able to be there tomorrow morning.

Sorry for the patchy info. I really appreciate the time you've all taken to respond.

Hello,

 

They said they would be changing the locks and that he would no longer be entitled to access the property. They had damaged the lock of a property unrelated to us but belonging to same landlord. The landlord arrived, spoke to them, I do not know the content of the discussion.

 

The EO phoned my bf again, saying they would return next week (ie from tomorrow).

 

This is for large outstanding utility debt.

 

It is a very large space, full with lots of what is essentially junk. I don't know what to expect on our arrival back.

 

The other tenant lives in a separate building, but shares our building for storage of things. He arrived home to the separate building, with a broken lock, his items of worth laid out neatly with his passport, and £150 cash missing from a drawer.

 

We have no way of returning there until tomorrow morning (Monday).

 

It's messy.

 

My questions really are these:

 

If my items are still there, I presume they will have been looked at/assessed like the other tenant, what would be the consequence if I now just took them away?

 

The premises is technically a commercial premises but it's rented legally off the landlord and it is where he also lives. It's like a granny flat but it's all attached internally.

Almost certainly this is a real messy situation.

In the first instance, your boyfriend needs to be speaking with the landlord as he appears to have had a conversation with the enforcement agent. For the time being, I am assuming that the landlord is the owner as opposed to being an agent (representing the owner). If so, the property is his and accordingly, changing the locks on his property should be of serious concern to him.

The way that I am reading your posts....the landlord has also been barred from entering the property?

Almost certainly this is a real messy situation.

 

In the first instance, your boyfriend needs to be speaking with the landlord as he appears to have had a conversation with the enforcement agent. For the time being, I am assuming that the landlord is the owner as opposed to being an agent (representing the owner). If so, the property is his and accordingly, changing the locks on his property should be of serious concern to him.

He'll see him tomorrow as well. The landlord was aware that stuff was about to hit the fan, my bf has been generally honest with him, but he's obviously still going to be extremely concerned. I imagine he gave them what for, and tomorrow he'll give us what for.

The way that I am reading your posts....the landlord has also been barred from entering the property?

Sorry, unclear again. They have not at this point changed the lock, from what I understand. They were going to, but once landlord visited, they said they were coming back next week. I don't know if they are still intending on changing lock or if landlord discussion has changed that.

 

Sorry, unclear again. They have not at this point changed the lock, from what I understand. They were going to, but once landlord visited, they said they were coming back next week. I don't know if they are still intending on changing lock or if landlord discussion has changed that.

Now it is becoming clearer.....the enforcement agent made a threat etc.

In that case, now that they are aware that there are little or no goods within the property, they will very likely not take too much interest in pursuing the debt much further. It's a bit of a waiting game really.

If the neighbour is adamant that £150 has gone missing, I would be inclined to suggest that your partner pay the sum to conclude the matter.

PS: Time for your partner to change his ostrich habit and take his head out of the sand. Please do post back to let us know how this matter pans out.

 

PS: Time for your partner to change his ostrich habit and take his head out of the sand. Please do post back to let us know how this matter pans out.

Absolutely. I will do. Thanks again.

Absolutely. I will do. Thanks again.

Changing a habit of a lifetime might be hard, but this incident may give him the jolt that he needs. Best of luck !!

 

If no paperwork has been left, it is important that an investigation takes place to ascertain what happened to the money.

And your suggested way to achieve this is how?

 

If the neighbour is adamant that £150 has gone missing, I would be inclined to suggest that your partner pay the sum to conclude the matter.

Once again, we are assuming that a notice has not been left itemising that a sum of £150 has been taken into control.

The alternative to my suggestion world be for the other tenant to issue a Formal Complaint to the enforcement company regarding the loss of this money (£150). He could request a copy of the 'bodyworn' camera footage but whether he wants to go this route....we just don't know. Alternatively, he could report the matter to the Police. Without evidence that there had been a sum of £150 at the property, the police would very likely not take the matter much further.

If this debt had been mine, and I had been responsible for the visit, I would not want to put a completely innocent person to so much trouble. That is why I made the suggestion that I did.

I didn't think bailiffs can take cash under control. They can take it as a payment off the amount outstanding but that involves a receipt, not TCoG paperwork

So you are taking about accusing someone of theft pure and simple, personally I would be very sure of my ground before I did such a thing.

We went back yesterday morning and they have left no paperwork or documentation anywhere.

He opened his old mail and there was a county court summons,

obviously not attended, a following letter stating that (obviously) found in their favour and that BF has to pay up.

Then one letter from the enforcement company requesting payment by 19th September.

This letter states it from the high court.

There is no other warnings or documentation of date they will be coming etc, and nothing left re when they will return. No documentation re missing cash from other tenant.

I took everything of mine of value away.

I didn't bother taking a lot of stuff like clothes and books,

I have no idea what they would or wouldn't take and hopefully I'll come back to that stuff,

but anything I'd be genuinely gutted about is at my home in my care now.

The landlord has, fairly I think, asked BF to be out by Xmas.

Sorry I forgot to include.

BF has taken away anything of his of value

- mostly small value and high sentimentality,

but he's taken whatever he can to store elsewhere, and some of our items genuinely belong to others so they have been urgently returned.

As they entered the property and did not take control of these items, or leave any documentation to any effect of their visit, is the fact he took these items away/returned them likely to cause problem?

We went back yesterday morning and they have left no paperwork or documentation anywhere.

 

He opened his old mail and there was a county court summons, obviously not attended, and a following letter stating that (obviously) found in their favour and that BF has to pay up. Then one letter from the enforcement company requesting payment by 19th September. This letter states it from the high court.

 

There is no other warnings or documentation of date they will be coming etc, and nothing left re when they will return. No documentation re missing cash from other tenant.

 

The landlord has, fairly I think, asked BF to be out by Xmas.

Thank you so much for updating the forum. With regards to the letter from the bailiff company (which I assume to be the statutory Notice of Enforcement) requesting payment by 19th September, there is not further statutory notice required to be sent informing on the date of a visit.

What is happening with the other tenant and the matter of the 'missing' £150? Is he wanting to pursue this further?

The landlord seems to be very understanding.

Thank you so much for updating the forum. With regards to the letter from the bailiff company (which I assume to be the statutory Notice of Enforcement) requesting payment by 19th September, there is not further statutory notice required to be sent informing on the date of a visit.

Thanks for the information. Should they have left any documentation of their visit?

What is happening with the other tenant and the matter of the 'missing' £150? Is he wanting to pursue this further?

He has the bailiffs number and is contacting them himself. I will leave that with him. I think he's more focussed on moving out now as the landlord wants both gone by xmas. If I find out more about the outcome I will report back on that.

The landlord seems to be very understanding.

BF has been there about 15 years, went to landlords wedding etc, long history there.

Never been in rent arrears (nothing major that wasn't easily caught up anyhow).

Landlord is super annoyed but he's remaining very fair.

Can't ask for anything more, hats off to him.

BF business is all but failed, and he has spiralled into alcoholism,

there's a big intersection of ignored issues all coming together like a big bang at once right now, it's really quite sad to be honest.

the landlord knows the problems going on (although only now quite the extent they run to), he's being as kind as he can despite it I guess.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered me their time and advice. (and thanks for cleaning the confusing argument away elsewhere...)

Thats no problem... PEople come to the forum for help and we try to accommodate that

There's nothing worse then seeing a thread go off course with topics that may not apply to you and it can confuse you.

I hope you get this sorted, please do keep us updated.

Thats no problem... People come to the forum for help and we try to accommodate that

There's nothing worse then seeing a thread go off course with topics that may not apply to you and it can confuse you.

 

I hope you get this sorted, please do keep us updated.

My thoughts entirely.

Thanks for the information. Should they have left any documentation of their visit?

 

He has the bailiffs number and is contacting them himself. I will leave that with him. I think he's more focussed on moving out now as the landlord wants both gone by xmas. If I find out more about the outcome I will report back on that.

 

Can't ask for anything more, hats off to him. BF business is all but failed, and he has spiralled into alcoholism, there's a big intersection of ignored issues all coming together like a big bang at once right now, it's really quite sad to be honest. So, the landlord knows the problems going on (although only now quite the extent they run to), so he's being as kind as he can despite it I guess.

Thank you so much for returning to the forum with an update.

Unless a bailiff has actually taken control of goods (which didn't happen in your case) there is no legal requirement for him to leave a notice advising the property owner/tenant etc that a visit had been made in their absence.

Hopefully over the next couple of weeks, the landlord may mellow. After all, he has been receiving rent for a very long time so he my well change his mind out moving out. There is nothing worse for a landlord than having an empty property as he becomes liable for Non Domestic rates.

So sorry to hear of BF's downward spiral and I really do hope that both of you come through this difficult period in as short a time as possible

xxx

Thank you so much. Does the fact that they entered the property mean they likely will have taken an inventory and he might be in trouble for items now removed?

Thank you so much. Does the fact that they entered the property mean they likely will have taken an inventory and he might be in trouble for items now removed?

No nothing was taken under control, the goods still belong to their original owner.