About 8 months or so ago, i bought something from the US on ebay. a little while after it arrived i got a DHL bill for the import duty/admin. I didn't pay and heard nothing more about it until this letter arrived last week

I know some of you may say..its enforceable , its not alot of money .. pay it etc, but I'm interested to know where i stand if i don't wish to pay it... its the principle for me. I'm tired of being taken for a ride by these large companies, tired of getting a barrage of bills coming through my letterbox, when my mental health is fairly fragile.

anyone offer any guidance - anyone know of this company Receivables Ltd?

For instance, surely if I'd have paid straight away then I must be acting as the courier company's creditor until they pay HMRC (Her Magesty's Revenue and Customs.... *wretching noises*) and I am within my rights to ask them to prove how much they were charged by customs for this., am I not?. furthermore, especially since it was marked gift and the invoice arrived after delivery, i didn't give them permission to act as broker on my behalf.

This letter looksas though its from a debt collection agency - am I within my rights to go about this the same way I would deal with a Credit card Debt collection agency - have DHL sold the debt on?

Its been said that our co-operation with this system is what keeps it afloat - most people will pay for a quiet life - and it is a [problem] because of the charges they levee even on goods that are valued modestly - I 'm reaching my decision because I've had other large charges - at the door by a UPS guy who wouldn't hand over my goods until I paid there and then - and a stupidly high edit amount too. I'm fed up. Any help or solidarity appreciated. thanks.

HI PG,

To me, it looks like you've had 2 choices recently:-

1) UPS say cough up and I'll hand over the package. You pay and get the package.

2) DHL sort out the pay't for you, deliver the item and then bill you for the HMRC charges.

If you had any objection or query about the charge, you should have raised this 8 months ago and not ignored it.

I assume DHL still own the debt as you have the option to pay them direct as per item 3. in the letter.

I'd pay up now before you get further charges or costs added.

Maybe look into the question of how much HMRC are charging in these cases, so you can decide how to deal with this in the future.

I take a different view to Slick, having dealt with similar issues with Fedex in the past.

I successfully argued that the courier had no contract with me, either for delivery of a package, or for payment of any customs charge. They did not contact me prior to assuming that I wished them to pay on my behalf. In my case Fedex added their own admin charge; I offered to send a cheque for the amount of duty only, and suggested that Fedex look to their client for anything else.

Incidentally, I can confirm that the address of Receivables Ltd is a rent-an-office business centre with which I'm familiar. They probably use it as a mail drop. According to the Information Commissioner Receivables Ltd is at:

ACORN HOUSE

STRAIGHT BIT

FLACKWELL HEATH

BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

HP10 9LS

which address it has also told the OFT is its Registered Office, corespondence address and principal place of business - Acorn House is another business centre.

Edited to add: check out their fantastic website, with music!

Hi SP,

I agree there was no contract betwen you and the courier.

Is this just a [problem] to get a premium out of you, or is there really a "duty" which HMRC charge.

In any event, PG should have queried this with DHL at the time and not ignored the matter.

If there is not a duty and this is a [problem], we should be drawing this to peep's attention.

Hey SP,

Just checked out the Music and recognise the organist.

Wasn't he the guy, from the Britain's Got Talent TV prog, who played theme from Stars Wars on his Yamaha PSR 280.

This should be a global website requirement !! :lol:

I know that HMRC do sometimes charge duty on imported packages, but there should be an official HMRC sticker on the parcel to show this, or they should be able to produce the official paperwork. When Fedex did this to me, the first I knew was an invoice demanding immediate payment about a month after the package was delivered, followed by a DCA letter a week later.

An Australian company I deal with regularly changed the courier they use to UK because every customer was being charged admin fees for customs clearance on top of shipping.

thanks for your help , although I would've appreciated something a bit more constructive than you should have dealt with this back then' slick.

I 'm under no illusions that I have left it late, but I'm not a schoolboy who came on here to be reprimanded and don't like your put down.

my reason for staying quiet about it was that it might go away - since I'd read that some people have told them to urinate afar and haven't heard back from them, and 8 months is quite some time.

I'm really after help of the helpful kind so your point about querying how much HMRC would have charged is useful

pimpernel, I'm interested as to how you might recommend practically arguing about the contract, would i for instance send a letter to receivables stating that I am not prepared to pay anything until I a) see their contract with DHL that gives them the right to reclaim the money and b) see the proof that HMRC charged DHL the amount that DHL is charging me.

I know there's no set way of doing things like there is with credit cards, but I bet that there's more than a few people interested in this subject.

Hi PG,

My reply was not intended as a "put down" and I'm sorry you took it as such.

Clearly SP has had experience of this matter and is better placed to advise you. I thought there was a proper charge made by HMRC but from what I see here, there may not be.

If this is a [problem] on the part of overseas couriers, it should be broadcast loud and clear. That's the beauty of this site - errors like mine are spotted and corrected.

I'd write to Receivables saying you refuse to pay anything to them until you see proof as in (a) and (b) in your post above. I'll be interested to see their response.

I still say that ignoring something, in the hope that it goes away, is a flawed strategy......not as a personal attack on you, but as general advice.

No hard feelings - I concur wih your point about ignoring something as a strategy slick. perhaps this highlights another point - that people assume they have no recourse with courier companies and so don't bother.

It was through the advice and templates provided this forum that I successfully fended off another DCA who were hassling me for credit card debt repayments.

I currently receive longer term Incapacity benefit (depression) and was pleased not to have to use this as a crutch.

- although I was in the former group (the people who didn't know about dealing with matter like this) until this year, I know that it can be done - hence this thread.

and part of me is interested in the machinations of how these people work - i would like to see them on the run in a way.

I'll keep you posted. - i wonder if I can whip out the tresspass letter if they threaten to doorstep me. is that a generally applicable clause?

cheers.

Hi PG,

I think you're a long way off from them calling to visit.

Let us know how they reply (if they do).

Note that the DCA letter isn't the usual threatogram; they know that these charges are unenforceable, and that couriers take a risk in acting without any contract (or even asking).

Just send a short letter:

Dear Sirs

 

Re: DHL

 

Thank you for your letter datd (date), the content of which is noted. I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any company you claim to represent.

 

I am unaware of any contract between myself and DHL, or of any evidence that I asked DHL to act on my behalf.

 

In the circumstances, I regret that I am unable to assist you, and now consider the matter closed.

 

Yours etc.

great, thanks slick for the reassurance. i don't want extra charges really.

thanks Pimpernel - i like your style I'll send that - I know it seems like minutiae, but should I include the account reference they quote on the letter they sent me at the top - or should i leave it off - this might give it the impersonal sense that I'm looking for, since to include it might be admission they they have an account with DHL.

I'll send it recorded post tomorrow. I could be cheeky and send it to the address you gave as their post drop office - this way, i'd be letting them know that I know they are rent-a-space. what do you reckon?

I'm feeling better about this already.

Hey SP,

 

Just checked out the Music and recognise the organist.

 

Wasn't he the guy, from the Britain's Got Talent TV prog, who played theme from Stars Wars on his Yamaha PSR 280.

 

This should be a global website requirement !! :lol:

No! He was ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and just made a noise with the demo track on the keyboard with "how to play the keyboard book 1" on the music desk. No way... (Andrew Johnston is real talent)

I donated a small amount to the libel account linked under your avatar slick.

Thanks for backing the Site Graham, which is much appreciated.

I'd include the a/c ref. no. myself - they could probably cross reference your name and address anyway.

UPDATE: sent the letter off, and today got this back. it was actually the end of April not march that I received the item.

(click on thumbnails for large version)

- any suggestions please?

I'll be interested to hear SP's or other's opinion.

It all looks kosher to me, but then of course SP's right that you paid the supplier to deliver and you had no contract with DHL.

Were DHL stupid to pay this money out (if they really did), or is this a [problem] ?

The limit for importing without duty payable is £18 per parcel. Anything over that and duty is payable on the lot including (I think) the delivery costs. I buy a few things from the Channel Islands and always ask for them to be packaged individually so they don't attract duty.

HMRC don't always charge so if this is a legitimate invoice there will have been a sticker on the parcel confirming they did so.

 

HMRC don't always charge so if this is a legitimate invoice there will have been a sticker on the parcel confirming they did so.

Precisely.

I'm not sure I'd bother responding; they're hardly going to do very much for £12-odd.

If you wanted to reply, I'd just point out that there's no official receipt or other evidence that DHL paid the duty. I would certainly mention that in the absence of a contract, you will not countenance paying DHL's admin fee, but if they disagree then your admin fee for corresponding with them is £25 a letter, and you look forward to receiving their cheque.

thanks for your help.

so although receivables sent me the DHL invoice for the item i received and am being charged for and it has a customs entry number on, its worth just ignoring it - I won't get charged any more for just doing that? - this is good if the case.

I 'm likely to incur stupid admin fees if I continue correspondance with receivables; they are likely to disagree if only to charge me the £25 for admin, and as you say £12 is not going to be a huge fuss.

EDIT: I put the wrong picture of the first page up - i put the original one up by mistake at first. the second one (now up) they sent back was actually signed by a person, George McCann.

It's clear from their letters that they know that this is unenforceable.

I'm suggesting that since DHL appear to think that it's ok to charge an admin fee without having a contract to do do, there's no reason why you shouldn't ask them or their DCA for £25 for answering their letters!

so if I sent a letter back to receivables, i should really ask them for a £25 administration charge - that makes sense, if they're allowed to why can't I?

I'll see what happens if I do nothing. The first letter made my position clear.

I know it may not be relevent but if they do decide to take action - is it against the law for them to come onto my property to seek repayment?

fundamentally, buying electrical goods from the states is still a good deal - if this is successful, I'll know next time that they can't enforce a contract i haven't agreed to by buying off ebay and I'll hopefully find some tricks to avoid them charging in the first place. So long as its not HMRC chasing the money, there's every reason to try it... what do you think?

I've just read your original post again and seen that it was marked as a gift. The limit for a gift is £36 and the value of the contents was less than this. It is listed on the DHL paperwork as an 'invoice' value yet the seller would have filled out the customs form and stated it was a gift. DHL would have no knowledge of the seller invoicing you.

IF it was paid on your behalf I suspect it was paid in error. If Customs had checked it and believed it was not a gift as stated it would have been covered in official stickers by the time it reached you and there's no way you would have got it without paying up front.

If it stated 'gift' and was under the limit it's surely not up to DHL to decide otherwise.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001454&propertyType=document

anyone that imports items (the buyer) is liable for any tax or duty

ida x

They are taking the wotsit arent they, if they had any sort of right to collect this, they would have shown an official invoice or something from HMRC, tell em to take you to court if they dare