40 Day Deadline

[Bilgeman]

Can somebody just clarify for me. Is this 40 days from the item being received in the addresse's office or 40 working days? It makes a big difference.

 

Cheers

[djdave]

For a SAR, 40 calendar days from them receiving it. The ICO then recommends a follow-up letter before making an official complaint.

 

For a CCA, 12 working days then a further calendar month before they commit an offence.

[kennyparkroad]

any advice on the letter you send when they havent complied?

 

i have the following one posted in another thread, would this be ok for other users?

 

 

 

Letter Of Non Compliance For Credit Agreement

 

Your Name

Your Address

Date

Account No : XXXXXXXXX

Client : XXXXXXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam,

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. You have now failed to supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement for the alleged "debt" you are trying to enforce. This request was sent on INSERT DATE HERE together with the statutory fee of £1.00. I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

You are reminded that you were obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

I now consider the matter closed and no further correspondence regarding payment will be entered into. If you persist on pursuing payment you will have left me no choice but to report this matter to the statutory authorities.

I now await your letter of confirmation that the debt is written off, as you have been unable to produce the paperwork required by law. And I demand that as you cannot prove that the debt ever existed, to remove any negative entries on my credit file relating to this matter immediately, as they are unsubstantiated, else I will not hesitate to bring the full weight of the Data Protection Act 1998 against NAME OF COMPANY HERE as a Data Controller.

YOUR NAME

[ladybird17]

IMHO, I would just sit tight. Why would you wish to alert them to them non-compliance? If they do come up with it, then the debt becomes enforceable - it would only be from the time you requested to the the time they supplied that it is unenforceable. And whilst we know that they've committed a criminal offence, I would hazard a guess that your local cop shop is not going to be over-interested.

You can however send all copies of correspondence to TS to investigate, and take up the matter with ICO.

[kennyparkroad]

thanks for that

 

i have 2 companies that have defaulted and committed a criminal offense, however only 1 is communicating with me

 

ive heard nothing from the other one.

 

just wondering what do to next.

[ladybird17]

I would go down the TS & ICO route first, and then think about non-compliance. Possibly FOS as well, (question their suitability to hold credit licence?)but that only what I would do, it's your call! Can you tell us who it is that hasn't complied...? there may be others in the same boat with the same company.

[Bilgeman]

This has thrown up an intersting thought in my head. If a DCA doesn't comply with the request because they don't have access to the original signed agreement and the debt then becomes unenforceable, is that the end of it or is there a chance that they'll either sell the alleged debt on or even send it back to the original creitor for them to try and get it from you (and they may even have the agreement copy)? What would happen then?

[kennyparkroad]

I would go down the TS & ICO route first, and then think about non-compliance. Possibly FOS as well, (question their suitability to hold credit licence?)but that only what I would do, it's your call! Can you tell us who it is that hasn't complied...? there may be others in the same boat with the same company.

 

 

 

The company is Centrica Finance (the AA) it was a loan, Blair Oliver and Scott are trying to collect.

 

CCA'd them BOTH, back in December, nothing heard.

 

But because of probs with bank they took a payment out in Feb and March, it was cancelled properly last week, bank apologised for the delay/fault.

 

BOS (Blair Oliver and Scott) are due to take a payment out at the start of april, but that wont be happening.

 

Wonder if they will start chasing for payment then?

 

Doesnt matter if they do though, unless they can provide the CCA and in Blair Oliver and Scotts case the deed of assignment, also BOTH OF THEM have committed a criminal offence.

 

On a side not, Centrica also placed a default against my account which i NEVER GOT notification of.

 

just gets better huh?

[ladybird17]

unfortunately kenny, it's a story that's repeated time and time again on this site. I just hope that it's now a matter of time that this site, and other consumer groups, have enough "clout" to actually get some of these shameful practices ended.

Anyway, at present, you've asked both the original CCP and the DCA for copy agreement - so it will be interesting to see what happens now - they can't enforce if there's no agreement, and if they take you to court & turn up with an agreement, there would be the issue of disclosure and no judge takes too kindly to that.

Keep us posted.

[kennyparkroad]

i will however, to prevent further hijacking, can i ask you to look at my threads ive posted itsd under "major help what do i do next"

 

thanks

 

i have also posted by explanation message on that thread, feel free to subscribe

[Bilgeman]

Two things have happened recently that are relevant to this thread. I've had a reply from GUS which is basically a photocopy of an agreement which they have filled in with my name and address (name spelt wrong) but is unsigned by me. I feel I should write to them and say 'no, I want a signed one' and ask them to tell me in writing if they don't have one because, although they haven't complied with my request I don't trust any of these people and they might 'find' a signed agreement at a later date. No, I don't believe there ever was a signed agreement but I might be mistaken and what if they produce one at a later stage?

 

The other thing is, I've received a reply from First Credit telling me they've written to the original creditor for a copy of the agreement. They are running out of time for the 40 days and in any case this letter arrived well after the 12 day period was up. Do I now have to wait 40 days from the date I received the letter or is this, as I believe, irrelevant and I just go along as if this letter never arrived? Also, what happens if they come up with a copy of the agreement after the 40 day deadline? Would this cause problems for me if it went to Court inasmuch as the Court might say that, despite their non-compliance, I obviously have a debt to the company and although they committed an offence by not responding in time, the debt obviously exists and order me to pay up, possibly paying more than I am already?

[gypsumsif]

hello Bilgeman,

can i give my opinion here please, just because im new here and want to test what ive learnt so far. but please wait for an established member to verify what ive said.

Two things have happened recently that are relevant to this thread. I've had a reply from GUS which is basically a photocopy of an agreement which they have filled in with my name and address (name spelt wrong) but is unsigned by me.

it not an agreement. they are still in default and the clock is still ticking.

 

I feel I should write to them and say 'no, I want a signed one' and ask them to tell me in writing if they don't have one because, although they haven't complied with my request I don't trust any of these people and they might 'find' a signed agreement at a later date.

i would wait untill the full 12+30 has elapsed

 

No, I don't believe there ever was a signed agreement but I might be mistaken and what if they produce one at a later stage?

then they have to get it reinforced in a court. you have done nothing wrong. all you've done is ask them to prove that they own the debt/you owe them the money.

 

The other thing is, I've received a reply from First Credit telling me they've written to the original creditor for a copy of the agreement.

normal delaying tactic they havent got it!

 

They are running out of time for the 40 days this is a request for a CCA not a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). the time limits are 12+2+30 days and in any case this letter arrived well after the 12 day period was up. Do I now have to wait 40 days from the date I received the letter or is this, as I believe, irrelevant and I just go along as if this letter never arrived? just stick to your calendar. Also, what happens if they come up with a copy of the agreement after the 40 day deadline? Would this cause problems for me if it went to Court inasmuch as the Court might say that, despite their non-compliance, I obviously have a debt to the company and although they committed an offence by not responding in time, the debt obviously exists and order me to pay up, possibly paying more than I am already?

as i said above. they may well find it. you havent done anything wrong in asking for proof of the debt. if they produce a correct agreement (true and signed) then a court will reinforce it. but i doubt you will incur cost.

 

 

so did i pass my first written test?

 

im sure eveything will be fine Bilgeman.

[Bilgeman]

If I'd written that back at primary school about 100 years ago, or so it feels, I'd have got a gold star to stick in my exercise book. Thanks.

[dencha]

Bilgeman

 

The time scale is one calender month from the date of default when an offence will have been committed.

 

I have not seen anywhere where a DCA has gone to court to enforce a debt following this time period. If I have missed something then perhaps someone else can jump in and correct me. I believe the reason they do not go to court is they are open to a £2,500.00 fine and possibly imprisonment.

 

Once the time period is up send copies of everything to your Trading Standards office who may contact the DCA on your behalf.

 

It would help if you could post on here what you have received, after blocking out personal information, using Photobucket.

 

This will allow members to give an appropriate response and will save a lot of typing.

 

dencha

[kennyparkroad]

well i have a DCA (same one mentioned above) giving me hassle threatening court, but this is 4 or 5 months down the line from my CCA request, they still havent complied!

[dencha]

Kenny

 

If they have not complied with your CCA by now they probably never will.

 

Gather everything you have and send copies to TS with a covering letter explaining what you have done in response to the DCA's and their non-compliance.

 

There should be no communication with the DCA's if they have defaulted and committed an offence.

 

dencha

[Vampyra]

I'm still awaiting CCA compliance from them too Kenny - 12 + 2 days up on Friday and commit on 3rd June.

[Bilgeman]

For information and comment, this is a copy of the request that I send in the first place with my £1 postal order.

 

 

'With regard to the above matter I have been making monthly payments arranged with the mediation of PayPlan for some time now.

As part of my ongoing efforts to settle my debts and get myself back on track I am requesting that you provide me with a copy of the original signed agreement relating to this matter. I understand that this is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

I would appreciate it if you would respond within the statutory time limit.'

[dencha]

Who did you send this to. First Credit or GUS.

 

dencha

[Bilgeman]

Both. Had a blank credit agreement with my name and address filled in in pen from GUS and a letter from First Credit saying they've written to the originial creditor (Barclays) asking for a copy etc etc. Both are now out of the 40 day deadline.

[dencha]

Catalogues for some reason appear not to have had agreements signed , so you can almost guarantee they do not have what you requested.

 

Beware application forms sent from Barclays claiming to be a copy of the CCA. I have one which has nothing on it except my personal details.

 

As it is passed the offence time limit it is doubtful if you will see one.

 

dencha

[Bilgeman]

There must be an awful lot of loans, catalgoue purchases, overdrafts etc out there that aren't legally binding at all. Can we expect to see lenders becoming a little more careful about this from now on I wonder?

[dencha]

Bilgeman

 

Not quite sure why you are quoting 40 days. 40 days applies to an SAR.

 

A CCA request is maximum 14 working days to default, then a further calender month to offence.

 

dencha

[Bilgeman]

Doh!!

 

I really need to revise, don't I?

[dencha]

I would not say that overdrafts are connected to CCA 1974. They are normally an extension of a current account which is not covered by the CCA 1974.

 

dencha