Hello and thank you for your time

First of all I would like to thank you in advance for your eventual support, advice and your honest opinion. What follows is a true story, my story. This is not an attempt to badmouth Citroen or any other manufacturer. This is about how some car dealers choose to treat their customers, about gross negligence and, why not, fraud. Everything that follows is supported by, I believe, strong evidence - phone conversations recordings, e-mails, pictures and video recordings.

After much consideration and a crazy amount of courage I have decided not to buy a Seat Leon Touring FR but a brand new Citroen DS5 2.0 HDI manual. Very soon this proofed to be a huge mistake.

The car was purchase by finance, PCP. The OTR price of the vehicle was 17000 pounds, heavily discounted from 25000 pounds. This big discount of 8000 pounds made me choose this car. Big mistake. This kind of discounts are not something out of the ordinary in the industry, specially in March.

Also relevant is the fact that this was a distance selling purchase. This vehicle was advertised via AutoTrader home page and all the correspondence between me and the dealer (Sutton Park Motor Company Ltd - Stourbridge) was via phone or email.

Friday (21.03.2014) I took delivery of a brand new Citroen DS5 which I bought with finance by PCP provided by Barclays Partner Finance. As soon as I drove the car from the dealer I've noticed Steering and Braking faults with the car. The most obvious defect was the fact the car suffered from a bad wheel alignment, the steering wheel stayed all the time lean to the left and the car was pulling constantly left, no matter of the camber of the road.

I immediately turned to the dealer to report the issues with the car. The dealer briefly inspected the car and they told me that they used some kind of brake spray to clean the brakes and also test drove the car and informed me that the car is fault free. This seemed very weird to me because no spray cleaner in this world will cure a bad wheel alignment but I was too tired to argue (been travel for 4h by train to reach Dealer's location)

I've set up again on the road and I noticed that nothing has really changed with the car's issues, obviously.

When I arrived home (more than 140 miles away) I have contacted the dealer by phone explaining that none of the problems with the car have been fixed. I've been told that on Monday (24.03.2014) I will be contacted by the Dealer's Service Manager who will discuss with me this matter.

Nobody contacted me and I decided to take the car to an independent tracking specialist. The wheel alignment job print out clearly shows that the car's tracking was off.

This was not the only problem with my brand new car.

Here is full list of faults:

1. Bad wheel alignment and tracking causing the vehicle to constantly pull to the left

2. Steering wheel was off centred, it stays leaned towards passenger side.

3. Steering wheel vibrates at motorways cruise speeds 60 – 70 mph.

4. Steering wheel shakes under braking.

5. The car is very unstable on uneven and slightly bumpy roads, especially when braking, causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.

6. The steering wheel is twitching and jerking back and forth every time the front wheel goes over small bumps and cracks on the surface of the road, also causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.

7. Miss coloured front bumper – painted in a different shade of grey.

8. Rattling noise coming from the right hand side rear passenger door.

[/b]

Tuesday ,25.03.2014, morning I've contacted the dealer and told them that I'm willing to return the car to them so they can have a full check of the car. They agreed to bring the back to them, which I did.

When I went back to the dealer (after 2 days) to pick up the car and noticed that there was an improvement to some of the issues but most of them were still not fixed. There was no more steering wheel vibration at motorways cruise but still the steering wheel was shaking under braking sometimes.

The steering shake under braking was pointed out by me to dealer's Service Manager when we test drove the car together but he informed me that this was normal because of the road condition which I strongly rejected. He also tried to convince me that the steering wheel jerking and twitching from left to right was absolutely normal. I've explained to him that maybe this is normal with an used car with many miles on the clock but not with a brand new car with 3 miles on the clock.

Every time my car goes over small bumps and cracks on the road the steering wheel is abruptly twitching and shaking back and forth, making the car to suddenly change direction to the left or right very rapidly. I have tried to explain to the dealer that this is not normal or safe but he disagrees with me.

On 31-03-2014 I phoned the Dealer and Informed him that I want to reject the car. I’ve been informed that they have to speak with Citroen UK. Later that day they come back to me and told me that they opened a case with Citroen and also informed me that I have to book in the car with another Citroen dealer for an independent opinion, if this can be considered independent opinion. I agreed with that and on 01-04-2014 the car was with my local dealer Freeborn Garage Ltd.

One of the mechanics has test drove the car with me and immediately noticed that the car was pulling left in a very strange way. He also noticed that the steering wheel is twitching and jerking every time the front wheels go over small bumps and cracks on the road. He told me that they have to check the air pressure, disk brakes and something like connecting the steering rack to a device that will tell if the wheel alignment of the car changes while driving the vehicle. This part is very technical for me.

Later that day they called me to tell me that I can take the car back. They gave me a job report that says that while the car was pulling left when during the test drive, they couldn't find anything wrong with any of the steering and suspension components so the car is OK at the moment of the testing.

On the evening of 01-04-2014 I emailed a formal Complaint Letter to the Dealer. On 02-04-2014 I have received an email confirming that they have received the letter.

On 03-04-2014 I have noticed that the front bumper is painted in a noticeable different shade of grey then the rest of the car!!!!!

06-04-2014 === Officially rejected the car and returned to the shocked Dealer, who didn't want to touch the keys. I've left them on the reception desk. Also left them a letter explaining them my actions and the reasons behind them. Everything was video recorded by my trusted phone.

=== Later that day I've posted on Citroen’s Facebook pages and on Tweeter.

07-04-2014 === Citroen UK Head Office has been contacted me, aground 11 AM. I've been told they are working on my case.

10-04-2014 === Citroen UK called to informed that they’ve been in contact with the Dealer. The Dealer’s legal team are preparing an answer for me and I should receive it today or tomorrow.

Here are some pictures and videos that I will post as soon as I have permission to do so.

This is the story so far.

Could you advise me or tell me if I have a case against the supplier of the car or the finance company. I paid a 4000 pounds deposit using my credit card and the rest via PCP on a 4 year contract.

Thank you

Sounds like an accident damaged new car, probably by the delivery company. These cars can be bought for just a couple of thousand by the trade, repaired and then placed back on the forecourt as a new car.

Typical car industry rip-off.

Why should you have to take a mechanic mate when you buy a spanking new car.

I found this post rather interesting so to clear up some misdemeanours read on.

1. Any brand new car damaged over and above minor cosmetic damage is not allowed to be sold as a new car. It has to be registered and then sold as a used unit with delivery mileage.

2. Tracking does not cause the vehicle to drift. Steering wheel miss alignment does. What happens is that the customer aligns the steering wheel with aspects of the instrument panel which might not have been set to gravity and thus points the steering in one way or another. Hence the manufacturer sets the tracking bang on but does not align with the variability of the IP. So in this case it's probably the IP which is out, not the tracking. If the dealer then sets the steering wheel to the IP, then the tracking will show as being out. It's a common problem for all manufacturers but should have been picked up on PDI. If the steering wheel is aligned to the IP and the tracking is then reset then the car does not drift. Most dealers cannot get their head around this and is explained as a tracking issue when in fact it is not.

3. From the OP's description this is a classic front hub run out problem. Wheel balance occasionally can cure but unlikely to do so. Dealer should examine hub run out after wheel balance, tightening torque of drive shafts and finally disc run out.

All of this should have been picked up on the PDI but is easily fixed. Root cause is usually found to be a tolerance stack.

Every now and again you get one of these but ****reon should know how to go about fixing this. From experience once the factory get involved you are on a hiding to nothing.

Scania knows the score with ****reon.

Hi mbrad26

Here's some information:-

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_faulty.htm

Personally I think you have rejected too early. The local dealer should have been in a position to rectify. You do though have to give them time and a bit of leeway which I suspect has not been the case. It's right that the delivery of the car was unacceptable and Citroen's response likewise, but I do feel with a less aggressive approach you might get more satisfaction and the issue resolved.

Citroen UK is not the most technically apt organisation I have come across from previous dealings but the complaint you have is pretty basic and not subjective so it should be relatively straight forward.

I would though be interested to know what wheel and tyre size the car is on along with whether the car has an electric steering system (EPAS), a hydraulic system driven by an electric motor(EHPAS) or a traditional system (HPAS).

Citroen UK is not the most technically apt organisation I have come across from previous dealings but the complaint you have is pretty basic and not subjective so it should be relatively straight forward.

LOL LOL LOL. Give you 100% for diplomacy Heliosuk. You and I both know that Citroen haven't a f------g clue about the detailed technicalities of the motor car. There again, there may be times when they do know the answer to a complaint but choose not to do anything about it.

Hi there

Last Thursday I have received the response from the Dealer - who strongly believes that there is no grounds for me to reject the car and they will begin charging me for the storage of the car. Relating to the front bumper miss colour issues I've been told that they will speak with Citroen UK for clarification.

Citroen UK has promised to get back to me as soon as the Dealer is giving his response. Like I said the response came last Thursday and the only reaction from Citroen UK was this message received on FB:

"Hi, our team is working hard to resolve this for you as quickly as possible. We do apologise for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience"

It seems that I found a way to post links to my Flicker account - here yoy will see pics of my car and other documents as well as the RESPONSE LETTER received from the Dealer. I will also try to put some links to YouTube

flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/sets/72157643400120115/

youtube.com/watch?v=IUDvNjn3Ais

youtube.com/watch?v=7QZAhTatjGk

youtube.com/watch?v=q2YOyYslUY0

youtube.com/watch?v=h9di-go9u-A

Cheers

Hi mbrad26

The dealer is going to fob you off, you have genuine concerns about the faulty car you purchased.

You need to write to your Credit Card company regarding a Section 75 claim, select the relevant template, the clock is ticking -

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-to-report-a-problem-with-something-bought-on-credit-card

Send it to the Credit Card company Recorded Delivery.

You need to write to the finance company, explain that the car is faulty, list the faults and you have rejected it. Explain that the vehicle is back with the dealer. So that the agreement is cancelled. If you've set up a DD, that needs dealing with.

Send it to the finance company Recorded Delivery.

You might want to write a Formal Letter of Complaint (at some point), mark it as such. Explain what's happened, how they have let you down and what you want them to do.

Sent it to:-

Ms Linda Jackson

Managing Director

Citroen UK

[email protected]

It matters not if the maker is also the finance company, the problem is between you and the finance company and not the dealership.

Hi

I have some news. Today I have received two emails and one phone call from Citroen UK.

I couldn't take the phone call as I was up the mountains, trekking. The first email came to inform why they didn't got in-touch with me as Citroen UK was waiting for the Dealer to have their say in this story. This is a little ... as I'm convinced that they received the letter at the same time as I did.

The second email kind of gives me a little bit of hope:

I called you and left you a voicemail and of course you don't have to return my call as I know you're currently out of the country.

Just a courtesy email to let you know we won't accept at this stage the dealer charging you for holding your Citroën DS5. I'm going to continue speaking with ********* from ***** and try my best to resolve matters amicably.

I'll keep you updated via email whilst you're away and of course will call you once you're back in the UK.

It's clear that the pressure on Citroe UK is mounting because some of you took this story to their Facebook page and kind of forced Citroen UK to take damage control actions. I really, really THANK YOU for everything you guys doing and for your amazing support. When I begun posting on this forum, and others, I didn't really expected this kind of reactions from you all. You are truly amazing and I hope some day I will be able to return your help.

One more thing happened today. WhatCar Helpdesk has contacted me on Facebook requiring more details about my story. Hope they will help as I have read about many difficult situations resolved by their enquires. Citroen UK knows them very well and many other manufacturers as well, including prestigious ones.

Thank you guys

Hi mbrad26

Well Done so far.

Please keep us updated on your return.

Hi

Just spoke with Barclays and this proved to be a total waste of time. I would like to remind you that I already kept Barclays Partner Finance informed about everything since I took delivery of the car, also sent them a rejection letter explaining why I rejected the car so on.

I have phoned them tonight to ask them to reconsider their position and to assume their responsibility as required by Section 75 of Consumer Section Act 1974. They advised me that is not possible and they will book me for a call back from one of their senior advisers. I begun to cry and laugh because this was the 3rd time when Barclays was booking me for a call back and I've never been called back. Appalling Customer Service...

I got asked the following:

"So what's wrong with the car?"

"Is the car still with you?"

"Did you returned the car?"

"When did you returned the car?"

"What the Dealer told you?''

... and my favourite:

"So what's the purpose of this call ?"

Basically I had to explain everything one more time to a new advisor and in the end to be told that there is nothing new in their position.

After I've calmed down a little bit I have contacted Financial Ombudsman Service and made an official complaint.

Cheers

Hi guys

Bad news for me.

Citron UK called to ask me what exactly is it that I want: refund, replacement...

I've been told that Citroen UK is siding with his Dealer with regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.

Also they sent out a Citroen paint specialist () to check the front bumper and the conclusion is that the miss-colour issue is due to the nature of the different materials: front bumper made from plastic and the body panels are being made from metal. Obviously I have protested against this statement. I asked why the rear bumper doesn't have the same issue as is also made from plastic - I didn't get an answer to this question.

They will call me back later today... I don't know why they even bother.

Cheers

Hi mbrad26

Read post No.8. Aren't they telling you the obvious, 'regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.' If there were, they wouldn't of sold it to you, There are clearly faults now. They should be writing to you, so you have a paper trail.

Hi guys

 

Bad news for me.

 

Citron UK called to ask me what exactly is it that I want: refund, replacement...

 

I've been told that Citroen UK is siding with his Dealer with regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.

 

Also they sent out a Citroen paint specialist () to check the front bumper and the conclusion is that the miss-colour issue is due to the nature of the different materials: front bumper made from plastic and the body panels are being made from metal. Obviously I have protested against this statement. I asked why the rear bumper doesn't have the same issue as is also made from plastic - I didn't get an answer to this question.

 

They will call me back later today... I don't know why they even bother.

 

Cheers

Hi mbrad26

 

Read post No.8. Aren't they telling you the obvious, 'regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.' If there were, they wouldn't of sold it to you, There are clearly faults now. They should be writing to you, so you have a paper trail.

Hi

Thanks for the heads up. I already written to FC a complaint letter and they declined any responsibility. That's why I complained to FOS.

I will write to Ms Linda Jackson in the next couple of days as well.

Thanks

Hi again.

Good news for me

What a day!!! It seems there may be a positive outcome for me.

At this moment in time I can't give any details about this as I'm still waiting for more details myself.

Thanks for support and for making this happening.

I will be back as soon as I have more details.

THANK YOU ALL

Hi mbrad26

Let us know what happens when you have more details, hopefully it's resolved.

Hi again.

 

Good news for me

 

What a day!!! It seems there may be a positive outcome for me.

 

At this moment in time I can't give any details about this as I'm still waiting for more details myself.

 

Thanks for support and for making this happening.

 

I will be back as soon as I have more details.

 

THANK YOU ALL

If the news is that good, that means they are taking back the French crap and replacing it with a real car

mbrad, there is no point in writing Linda Jackson as she may never see your letter. Even if she did you would be very lucky to receive a reply.

You have received the usual story from Citroén Uk and it's dealers----"There is nothing wrong with your car".

Incompetence and nonchalance is the norm here.

Best wishes anyway.

Hi guys

Citroen Spain has given a big like to my story on their FB page !!!

facebook.com/citroen.es

Hi guys.

Some little news.

I have an email saying that tomorrow I will, hopefully, receive more details about a possible happy ending.

Good stuff, mbrad26, you've got us hooked:-)

Hi guys.

 

Some little news.

 

I have an email saying that tomorrow I will, hopefully, receive more details about a possible happy ending.

Hi

Thanks but you have to believe that this is not my intention but it does seem to work so far:).

All I can see is a load of Spanish rubbish.

All I can see is a load of Spanish rubbish.

Scroll down until you rich posts from April 13 and you will find mine.