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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Liability Orders.

You could contact your local Council office and explain your position, BUT make sure you take as much evidence of your move, time, date etc as you can, because they will then have more to go on, but

It is important to realise that if your local council have obtained a Liability Order against you for unpaid Council Tax or Business Rates, then you are not alone….during the year to 2007, there were approx 4 million Liability Orders granted.

Bailiff action to collect unpaid Council Tax or Business Rates can only begin once a liability order has been obtained by the relevant Local Authority. Liability Orders are granted in the Magistrates Courts. Very few debtors bother to attend this hearing. This is mainly because unless the amount claimed is wrong, or you are not the person named on the summons, the application will be granted.

To obtain the Liability Order, a representative of the Local Authority will present a spreadsheet to the Magistrates Court consisting of the names, addresses and reference numbers of those debtors in arrears with Council Tax and Business Rates. This is called a "Complaint's List". Unless there are objections, which is rare, the Court merely rubberstamps this list. . This has the effect of confirming the legality of the debt. It is rare to be shown a Liability Order; however you could ask to see it.

By law, the local authority must give you 14 days written notice that the Liability Order is being transferred to their relevant bailiff company for collection. Therefore, it is vital that you try to stop this process if you are unable to pay.

It is also worth noting that a Liability Order is not recorded with a credit reference agency and will therefore not affect your credit rating.

Please note that although my advice is offered, you should consult your legal representative before taking ANY action.

 

 

have a nice day !!

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Thanks Baz for your reply which is valued.

 

But could someone out there plese tell me whether or not i am still liable for the whole years amount?

 

I had a liability order againist me but as you know it is for the whole year.

 

Can i contact council and get the amount amended as i only owe half the bill?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks.

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Was the liability order given to you because you defaulted on a payment or two. Because if it was then they always send letters requiring the twelve months payment.

You can defend a LO but you must be able to prove that the debt is not correct.

When you say you left the property, did it then become vacant ? because a vacant property is excempt from charges, so you wouldnt have to pay for the time that youre not there because you are not liable for that period in question.

 

The Valid Defences are:

 

  • An unauthorised officer of the Council is attempting to obtain the Liability Order.
  • There is a defect in your payment instructions (your bill has been calculated incorrectly).
  • Less than 14 days has elapsed from the issue of your demand notice and your first instalment falling due.
  • Payment has been made in full.
  • No reminder notice was issued.
  • The Council has defective computer evidence.
  • You have an Administration Order in progress through the County Court, which includes your outstanding Council Tax.
  • Documents have been served incorrectly.
  • YOU ARE NOT LIABLE FOR THAT PERIOD IN QUESTION
  • You are subject of bankruptcy proceedings that have been commenced against you.
  • The debtor is deceased.

The above outlines the valid reasons for defending against a LO.

 

Hope they help.

 

 

Good luck.

Please note that although my advice is offered, you should consult your legal representative before taking ANY action.

 

 

have a nice day !!

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  • 10 months later...

Hi,

 

Today i have received 2 letters from a council I previously lived under. The first one is dated 26th Aug and is a copy bill and is for £445.42. It says it is for 2009/2010. The next is dated 31/08/09 and says at the top NOTIFICATION OF BAILIFF ACTION FOR OUTSTANDING COUNCIL TAX. It goes on to say on Wednesday 12th April 2006 the council was granted a liability order against me for non-payment of council tax. Previous efforts to recover the balance have failed ect ect ect.

 

I have a few problems. I can't remember when I moved out of this address and have no proof of address for this date. I also can not afford to pay the arrears as i am currently on maternity leave and only getting £100 week! Please can someone give me some advise?

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  • 4 years later...

can someone tell me if i'm right on this. is it true if someone moves from a property owing council tax and the council obtains a liability order but uses the first address for court purposes and later traces the debtor to another address and sends bailiffs. is it true the liability order is defective

:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.
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It is not the LO, but the warrant of execution that would be wrong. The bailiffs should go back to the court to have the address changed, but from what I read, they don't appear to do this.

 

You should have posted this to the bailiffs page.

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For a bailiff to proceed for council tax arrears they are instructed by the council tax to collect the arrears due, the courts have no involvement in the process (after the liability order is granted) - unless the council have used the (very) unusual route of a county court.

 

The bailiff action is not taken against a specific address, it's taken against a specific person at whatever address they are at when the bailiff catches up with them.

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