CAG CRA S.A.R Club

[sosumi]

I wish it did Allwood - it may be possible to work it out, but I can't see it yet. I know the Equifax SAR helped me pinpoint the old account I had with Citi - with the application form Citi sent yesterday, and the copy of it sent by Hillesden today - which they called an agreement! - I was able to check through all the data I've now got and pinpoint the account that was settled in 2002 - which is the one they sent me the old application form for! I wouldn't have been able to do that without the Equifax SAR, as it showed the account numbers - so between the two I'd say Equifax was more illuminating than Experian. Experian is actually more disturbing, because I've an uneasy feeling about them anyway. That plus the fact that they've cashed 2 of hubby's £2 cheques now and still haven't provided his printed credit report - or even a complaint form!

The next step will be to SAR CallCredit. And chase up the Land Registry.

I'll be writing to Trading Standards tomorrow about Hillesden, and will look again at the SARs from Experian and Equifax. They're illuminating, but not in a straightforward way. Wish they were.

[sosumi]

I already got our property details from Land Registry Online Allwood... What's bothering me is Hillesden's claim to have 'successfully applied' to search the Land Registry - as you say, it costs £3 so they certainly inflated the wording of their letter in that case. I'd actually like to see who has 'successfully' applied to 'search' our property. Our living here was never an issue and Hillesden know it - we've lived here nearly 25 years. So, apart from our own search and legal searches for mortgages, something like Hillesden's apparent 'successful application' would show up? Presumably, a 'successful application' to the Land Registry will have been recorded by the Land Registry. It's a long shot, but I feel it's very important to establish the truth. I did SAR the Land Registry, but they sent a decent letter back. I think I have to go and talk to them about this. I should be able to go to the local office - new job for tomorrow.

[sosumi]

Just come across this - click on 'Janet's Eye' (it's a Shockwave Flash thingy):

The agencies looking at you | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

[sosumi]

Hi Midge and Allwood, it will make no difference to me whether they're recorded or not I agree. I don't think private records should be publicly accessible as easily as they are - but honestly, that isn't what bothers me. I don't have any kind of argument with the Land Registry, but Hillesden Securities wrote me a letter earlier this year that implied my address had changed, when it had not (and they knew it, I have their records confirming my address from their first contact with me.) They also worded their letter in such a way as to intimidate. The first of my posts in this thread explains:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/106969-dlc-big-problem-long.html

If they did a search and it only actually cost them £3, then they magnified this 'successful application' in their letter to intimidate me. If they didn't make the 'successful application' then the whole purpose of their letter was to mislead and intimidate. They knew that I suffer from depression - again it's on record that Payplan told them. If I find out - if their 'application' was as official as they made it sound - there will be trouble. If they didn't make such an application - there will be trouble. Their letter left me feeling violated. They were seeking either to threaten, or to place a charge on our house - one or the other. Either is just as bad.

I believe that there is an issue with the Land Registry - as your post demonstrates. But right now, personally, I just need some answers.

[sosumi]

PS Midge - mistakes like the one you describe will happen. xx

I suppose there's another way of looking at it too... Presumably I could could search Land Registry for the details of any property purporting to be owned by any Debt Collection Agency. Or Credit Reference Agency, even. Or Credit Card Company. Limitless - probably pointless and a waste of three pounds, but in theory the option must be there?

[sosumi]

They did with me:mad: I was too ill to challenge at the time but I definitely did not sign anything:mad:

I'd turn the air blue if I said what I want to BO - bright blue and red as well. Their day will come - sooner rather than later, I hope. xx

[sosumi]

Don't forget signatures are on there too...

Online Mortgage Deeds 'Will Combat Fraud' From PublicServantDaily

 

Online mortgage deeds will 'combat fraud'

Wednesday, August 15, 2007

The Land Registry has denied that their online register leaves homeowners open to identity fraud.

 

The campaign group NO2ID has claimed that the Land Registry has not paid enough attention to e-security whilst placing mortgage deeds and leases available online.

 

NO2ID believe that they could reveal information which could be used to steal identities.

 

Currently, users can pay £3 to download a plan or register for a house they are buying. They can then see details of what land is included, ownership and the price paid, by entering the property's postcode into the search engine. One of the main concerns is, since the Land Registration Act 2002, mortgage deeds have been published online, including the homeowners' signatures.

 

In a statement the Land Registry insisted that an open register is quite normal, and many other countries have been doing it for years without incident.

 

Defending the system, they said: "[its] transparency is designed to combat fraud; no one can say they own a property that is registered to someone else.

 

"There is no evidence that fraud has resulted from the availability of this information from Land Registry. If we receive evidence of a security risk, Land Registry, in conjunction with the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office, will of course investigate."

 

A spokesperson for NO2ID said it was a "terrible shame" that public documents are not accessible in a "safe, consistent and well thought out way".

 

"Instead a blanket approach is being taken which means that potentially sensitive information could be made available for a paltry £3. In the future, as signatures are used less and less as a form of authentication, perhaps signatures will be less of a target for potential fraud, but we are certainly not there yet," the spokesperson said.

The Ministry of Justice said: "Government is keen to ensure that publicly available sources of information wherever possible disclose a minimum of personal identity details that could be used by fraudsters for illegal transactions or to assist in compiling details of personal information about individuals."

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Hubby got his (£2) Credit Report from Experian yesterday. No compaints form, or copy of complaints procedure from them. Looks like the other £2 cheque was eaten by Experian - - but we're content to leave it at that, for now.

We'll never be using 'Loyalty Cards' again. I was looking at the Nectar Website yesterday, to see how to actually close the account, but I think they don't think anyone would want to. then there's also the 'Clubcard' belonging to that other supermarket giant - well, I have to admit I'm tempted to SAR them too!

I wonder if I can? There is actually a serious reason behind this - namely the completely wrong mobile phone bill my m-in-law received.

Anyway, I haven't yet SAR'd CallCredit.

As for the Land Registry - we're both struggling to get out and about just now, but that's still high on my list. I have absolutely no problems with the Land Registry - in exactly the same way that I have no problems with any other legal body having information about either of us. We always make da*n sure we're on the Electoral Roll, because we believe in democracy. Of course, if my voting choice shows up in 'Marketing Data' from a Credit Reference Agency... that's a completely different matter. Again, I think it's great that there should be a Fraud Tsar, but somebody should be watching CRAs too. Our property is our property. We're part of what we're told is an 'open society' and we accept our social responsibility. But you have to wonder, while the Government is actively working to reduce Fraud, why they're letting the Land Registry display signatures? English Law is (through the tireless efforts of people here) helping us challenge the behaviour of DCAs. But there's big business accessing everyone's information, and it's very uncomfortable, to say the least!

[sosumi]

Hi Sarah,

I'm not disputing that there may be a case against having private information so publicly accessible, only that in our case, we are working on the assumption that everything about the Land Registry is legal, and that what they do is in the wider public interest. I don't claim to know anything about the Land Registry except that it is part of the Government, and I have to believe that Government, at the highest level, is working to protect the citizens of this country. Our society is being threatened by outside forces - eg. the London bombings - and it is important that people who perpetrate such attacks should be brought to justice. I might not like it, but I accept that the public interest is at times, best served by withholding some information to citizens, but having it available to statutory bodies. Again, I'm on a quest for answers, but I also need to have faith in Government. The Freedom of Information Act allows me, I think, to access my medical records if I asked for them. I wouldn't, but the option is there. I have to trust, Andrew1 - that's all it comes down to. I have to have faith in the State.

I can give an example. A couple of years ago we drove to Dover as a birthday treat. We booked a room at the Travel Inn in Dover, but didn't know where it (Travel Inn - or Travelodge?) was exactly. So we parked up in a car park in town, bought a couple of foot passenger tickets and took the ferry to Calais and back. We love the journey. We bought some duty-free wine and ciggies, but spent most of our time on deck. It's great to see Dover fade out of view, then the white cliffs greeting us on the way back. People do these journeys all the time I know, but for us it's a rare treat.

So we got back into Dover, got in the car and tried to figure out where the Travel Inn was. The road maps weren't helping, so we asked a cashier in the petrol station on the main road in Dover. She said just turn left, it's at the top of the cliff. My navigation's crap and we drove into the ferry terminal! We realised what we'd done, but were about 50 yards past the barrier so couldn't just reverse out again. So we drove on, met officials, explained we were trying to get to the Travel Inn and they passed us through. We must have met at least four sets of security guards, but we just explained and carried on. They gave us an 'owl' and told us to follow the 'owl' signs. We followed the 'owl', sadly we had to give it back at the last checkpoint (couldn't keep it as a souvenir!), got back out of the ferry terminal and - eventually - found the right road to the Travel Inn. :oops:It was pretty obvious to all concerned that we'd made a mistake, but we were also glad that security was so high at that time.

I'm trying to deal with things one at a time. It's hard, because I'm also writing, hubby's got a broken foot and I'm decidedly wobbly. As far as I know, everyone's argument is sound, but I have to try and focus on what I know I can deal with. When I get to the Land Registry offices I'll be asking a lot of questions though! Particulary re. DCA 'access'!

[sosumi]

I saw this last night but too tired. I've read it again and words fail me. :evil:

[sosumi]

- Do you remember, in the discussion about Credit Today's Debt Collector of the Year Award, how I mentioned a news item on Credit Today, which pictured Malcom Hurlston, about CCCS warning (rightly) that a loan company was trying to replace the proper link to CCCS in Google searches?

That news story has vanished.

[sosumi]

Has anyone seen this? :o:D It's a start.

It's from here: Darling predicts house price 'turbulence'

I'll quote from it:

... "The FSA needs to look at how it regulates banks and whether the alarm bells should have rung much earlier," Darling said.

He added that it should also be asking banks "what's your fallback position?" if repayments are not made.

"I think that lenders need to be clear that firstly somebody can afford to meet the repayments whatever they are that they haven't overstretched themselves," he said.

"We have got to make sure we have a far better surveillance system to spot these problems and take action to head them off."

And he said banks should not rely solely on the advice of credit ratings agencies, who should "simply be giving advice to companies", when making lending decisions

"People shouldn't think that if they [the ratings agencies] say it's okay, that it is okay."

'Message in a bottle'... ?

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Paragraph 9 and 10 from here, the Daily Mail's interview with the Chancellor:

Exclusive: The Chancellor on the City

 

So, why would he say that? And if the CRAs are advising, what's that about exactly? CerebusAlert gave us a clue much earlier in the thread, linking to this post:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/74268-annoying-calls-01772551900-loans-2.html#post1117003

 

[sosumi]

Remember the SCOR Focus Group that Experian was 'leading'?

Here's SCOR again, c/o the Council for Mortgage Lenders:

Steering Committee on Reciprocity (SCOR)

'governing' - not 'Government'.

[sosumi]

'admin error' - here:mad:

Did anyone notice the CRA named in that article?

Conar, my SAR came back with a list of contents:

SUMMARY OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN YOUR DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

CREDIT REPORTS

PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE

ELECTORAL ROLL INFORMATION

EXTENDED SEARCH INFORMATION

ACCOUNT NUMBERS

ARCHIVED SEARCH INFORMATION

MARKETING INFORMATION

CREDITEXPERT MEMBERSHIP DETAILS

[sosumi]

Something is happening with Experian.

I've noticed a couple of websites aren't showing the 'CreditExpert free trial' ad now. I haven't looked at much, but I've got a feeling something's happening.

The BBC hosted Q and A session the other day - no Experian ad. Odd. Particularly as the 'advisor' was from Experian. Was it PR?

The Telegraph's Money page re. handling debt - no Experian ad. Instead there's an Equifax advert. Curious.

 

PS: Experian sent hubby a cheque for £4.00 the other day, out of the blue. No complaint form or copy of their complaints procedure, but the £4 they said they hadn't received - refunded.

Experian has at least seven companies, dealing with information gathering, and part of one provides the 'CreditExpert' 'service' for consumers.

I've just Googled 'Experian SCOR' and found this page.

[sosumi]

Is anyone able to 'cost out' the cost of setting up a Company here?

I want to know what it actually takes, legally and financially, to start a Company that has the rights to access Credit Reference Agency data about individuals.

I'm inclined to believe that there is something very underhand going on, that I think the Authorities need to know about.

If, tomorrow, I chose to become a Debt Collector, what would it cost me, how long would it take - things like that.

 

Some months ago I saw an advert on EBay for the 'sale' of a 'debt management agency' - crooked.

So what's to stop a crook masquerading as a company with sufficient credentials to access what data 'creditors' share?

Do they need any credentials?

Where are the checks and balances?

Allwood's reply from Equifax about BCW's 'trace' is that they must have the documentation to do it. Well what are they required to supply?

What's to stop a crook setting up as a company, accessing data and using that access for their gain?

Credit Reference Files are touted as legitimate, allowing creditors to make decisions about who they lend money to. That's fair enough, I think... but something more is going on. They're often referred to by DCAs in a way that I'd describe as blackmail by any other name.

I don't like DCAs full stop. I think they're grubby little companies making a lot of money out of people's misery. By any means they can. And if they get the wrong person, do they care? Not if the wrong person is so scared they give them money anyway.

Grubby little companies making ****loads of money. Costing lives.

So, how much does it cost? What does it take to become a DCA, just like the DCAs we're all dealing with? What's the list of things you have to do?

[sosumi]

Thanks Buzby.

If you read this (it's very short to read, PDF):

'Starting in Business as a Debt Collecting Agency' - CSA

it's pretty clear that setting up isn't exactly rocket science.

£99 and you've got a Company. Here's a quote from the CSA Factsheet above:

Start Up Costs

Many consider that minimal capital outlay will be needed to start the business.

Although it may be possible to work initially from home, it is more professional to have an office base.

A telephone and preferably a fax machine with a separate telephone line will be necessary.

More than one telephone line will allow callers to get through when the first line is engaged.

If callers can’t reach you, they may well pass their business to someone else.

All-in-one fax, telephone, answer-phone with occasional photocopy facility cost from £150.

To maintain records, keep accounts and deal with correspondence, a PC is a great asset.

A basic computer with word processing facilities and a printer can be bought from around £600, but prices vary depending on the functions needed.

The cost of all relevant insurances which may include cover for libel and professional indemnity, running expenses such as postage, telephone, office rent, electricity, rates etc must be taken into account.

Above all, potential agency start-ups will need sufficient capital to fund their owners’ livelihood during the initial period.

A car will be necessary.

Most people starting in business as a collection agency underestimate the time it takes to gain enough new clients to fund themselves and their business.

It is recommended that a thorough business plan is made at the outset to cover the first three years of operation.

Owner should consider whether their focus will be towards consumer or commercial debts, although working in both areas is quite possible.

Operation

The agency should be streamlined and efficient, with the ability to assess and prioritise debts. It is essential to have a clear contract with clients and a good system for mailing and chasing debtors.

Effective new client sales and customer service procedures are necessary. Good and effective banking facilities should be negotiated.

You'd think setting up as a DCA would be more complicated than that, wouldn't you?

Seems not. Bit of dosh, a nod and a wink.

[sosumi]

:D So, how much are we talking about?

Office - put a table in the front room.

Telephone - front room.

PC - get one easy for under £200. Printer thrown in.

Maybe 2 phone lines, maybe not.

'basic wordprocessing facilities' - ooh for nastygrams!

Easy start up for under £500. If you've got the PC - quids in!

So under £100 - a company.

Seems to me you can buy any information you like.

 

Cost - less than a monkey to be a DCA.

 

So, how would you ask a Credit Reference Agency for data?

How would you word it?

How long would it take?

[sosumi]

:lol:

PS DB - £485 pounds for credit license, we'd be talking £600 then?

What's slang for £1000? Thousand quid could include membership of something a bit financial too.

CSA?

CSA's got a new training course here

Handy.

[sosumi]

Well I never did! Has anyone seen the latest figures from the Credit Services Association?

CSA POSTS LATEST PREDICTIONS ON DEBT

 

CSA POSTS LATEST PREDICTIONS ON DEBT

 

Date: 13-11-2007

The Credit Services Association (CSA), the voice of the debt collection industry, has posted its preliminary predictions for 2007/8 for the amounts passed to its members for collection.

 

The CSA believes that the figure for the total passed for collection will rise to c£22.7 billion by the end of 2007, and that this figure will increase to between £23.9bn - £24.3bn by the end of 2008, although it warns the real figures may be higher still.

 

Work from independent consultants suggest that growth in debt sales over the next three to four years is likely to increase by 20%+ per annumbased on the fact that the debt mountain may be reaching its peak: consumers are tightening their belts against the background of a credit squeeze and access to credit is becoming increasingly difficult as lenders tighten their lending scorecards.

 

The speed of the ‘new’ debt is also going to be increasing. Over-indebtedness will be accelerated by more fixed-rate mortgages becoming variable at higher rates and access to new credit becoming harder.

 

The rise in the LIBOR, and the fact that most UK lenders have still not announced losses that may be linked to the US sub prime exposure, could also exacerbate the situation.

 

Total debt passed for collection:

 

September 00 £5.2 billion

 

September 03 £8.6 billion

 

September 06 £21 billion (this figure comprises £15 billion ‘traditional’ underlying debt and £6 billion of

debt sale*)

 

* The rate of growth in the underlying debt worked by the industry will in future be made up of ‘new’ debt coming in for collection as well as some of the ‘worked’ debt coming out.

Gone up quite a bit then hasn't it?

[sosumi]

Experian Prospect Locator

Experian is looking like a goldmine for enterprising Debt Collection Agencies.

Have a click through the tabs on that webpage and you'll see the wealth of information they offer on every citizen in the UK.

Now who's to say that my theoretical company couldn't buy the data?

I don't think I'd need a credit license.

[sosumi]

Research reveals growing awareness of information rights

- From the Information Commissioner's Office.

[sosumi]

From Telegraph here:

Experian receives credit reality check

 

 

By Philip Aldrick

Last Updated: 12:44am GMT 16/11/2007

 

 

Credit checking group Experian has become the latest victim of the liquidity crunch after warning that organic sales growth will slow due to the turmoil in world financial markets.

The shares tumbled 44 to 430½p after chief executive Don Robert said: "We will be growing at a slower rate than hoped... the second half is likely to be slower than the second quarter, which posted 5pc organic growth."

Experian had guided the market to expect sustainable "mid-to-high single digit" performance.

advertisement

 

 

However, Mr Robert said that the group's problems "came on us rather quickly" in late August as banks started to rein in their discretionary spending as the turmoil "caused everyone to be cautious".

More than half Experian's revenues come from financial institutions who use its credit checking services when chasing new credit card or loan customers.

Mr Robert insisted the business will pick up again once the liquidity crisis is fully digested, though he would not put a timescale on this.

"We do know that these institutions cannot stop attracting new customers and they need us for that," he said.

The revelation came as Experian posted a 140pc increase in first-half profits to $285m pre-tax. Total sales rose 16pc to $1.95bn, but the figure was boosted by acquisitions.

Organic sales growth was 6pc, down from 7pc in the first quarter and 8pc in its previous financial year. Mr Robert said Experian will still meet its full-year forecasts.

Experian was helped by strong acquisition spend in the first half, which totalled $1.7bn – including $1.25bn for a majority stake in Brazil-based Seresa.

Finance director Paul Brooks said he would "expect a quieter second half" as debts have reached $3bn.

Experian, whose shares have slumped since demerging from retailer GUS at 562½p last October, will pay an interim dividend of 6.5 cents on February 1.

[sosumi]

More than half Experian's revenues come from financial institutions who use its credit checking services when chasing new credit card or loan customers.

Mr Robert insisted the business will pick up again once the liquidity crisis is fully digested, though he would not put a timescale on this.

"We do know that these institutions cannot stop attracting new customers and they need us for that," he said.

Use its credit checking services when chasing new credit card or loan customers.

 

Credit checking services used to chase new customers?

This isn't saying someone who's checking the credit file of an applicant for a credit card or loan, is it? It's saying 'chasing new customers' - ie. trying to get new customers!

In other words, more than half the revenue comes from businesses interested in the information they provide, to find new customers. Which means using Experian's 'marketing expertise' and 'uparallelled access' to data on UK citizens. Look at that sentence, "We do know that these institutions cannot stop attracting new customers and they need us for that... "

Does any of this balance in any way with the apparent offer of a 'free credit check'?

They are information brokers, and there's a hell of a lot of stuff going on under the surface.