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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.


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Don't think I can post - don't have a forwarding address if you catch my drift!

:lol:

 

and as you will also know what the thing is i can't mention you will know how happy i am :)

Hello Andie, congratulations on your success!! I've just started a claim against them myself :-D

 

Strangely I received a defence today bodged together by someone called Mr P. Wonder if it's the one and only??? ;-)

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Many congratulations to Andie

 

I had a previous incarnation on this site and have changed user name incase anyone thinks I'm a newby, I was being followed around the site I think!

 

Anyway, advice needed, can Welcome register a default on your account if you have never received & they have never issued a default for that date? Mine should have dropped off but they have changed the date of the default to keep it on file for another 6 years!! Help and advice really needed about the legalities of this? Raised with the ICO and CRAS but no joy as yet.

 

Ta in advance :mad:

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Awesome news Andie.

 

Well done honeybun.

 

My complaint to Nottingham was replied to by letter the other day and I was pleasantly surprised.

 

More details soon but suffice to say the woman at the Feltham Branch will not be harassing me again and my phone number has been removed from their records ( in writing too ).

 

The letter fully upheld my complaint.

 

Back soon when I have more time.

 

Are you opening a bottle of champagne to celebrate? :D

 

Take care

 

Voda

 

xx

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Awesome news Andie.

 

Well done honeybun.

 

My complaint to Nottingham was replied to by letter the other day and I was pleasantly surprised.

 

More details soon but suffice to say the woman at the Feltham Branch will not be harassing me again and my phone number has been removed from their records ( in writing too ).

 

The letter fully upheld my complaint.

 

Back soon when I have more time.

 

Are you opening a bottle of champagne to celebrate? :D

 

Take care

 

Voda

 

xx

 

Hi Voda Hpe your are well and keeping wf busy!!.

I am now going on the advice from Postggi getting hand writing expert in as paperwork from wf is not mine and I can now prove it.

Whoever did write my signature you can bet they will be visiting the job centre BEFORE wf reply to my solicitor.

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Hi Voda Hpe your are well and keeping wf busy!!.

I am now going on the advice from Postggi getting hand writing expert in as paperwork from wf is not mine and I can now prove it.

Whoever did write my signature you can bet they will be visiting the job centre BEFORE wf reply to my solicitor.

 

Im new to this saw your message, just wanted u to know I had some papers sent yesterday and can tell u there is no way it was my signiture. The boxes r not even the same width ive got loads of problems with them got a car for 8 grand i now owe them 16 grand !!

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Im new to this saw your message, just wanted u to know I had some papers sent yesterday and can tell u there is no way it was my signiture. The boxes r not even the same width ive got loads of problems with them got a car for 8 grand i now owe them 16 grand !!

 

Hi CAT 101, everyone on here are well up with wf.

 

Type in google 'POSTGGI' he's an ace with wf problems, having had a few of his own and with signatures.

I know he's always busy, but always very very helpful.

try www.welcome finance are now officially dead.

Don't mean to pry but are you working??

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Hi BC,

 

I am well thanks and trust you are too.

 

That's terrible what the WF employee did.

 

It's a criminal offence surely.

 

Take care

 

Voda.

 

Hi Voda Hpe your are well and keeping wf busy!!.

I am now going on the advice from Postggi getting hand writing expert in as paperwork from wf is not mine and I can now prove it.

Whoever did write my signature you can bet they will be visiting the job centre BEFORE wf reply to my solicitor.

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Hi BC,

 

I am well thanks and trust you are too.

 

That's terrible what the WF employee did.

 

It's a criminal offence surely.

 

Take care

 

Voda.

 

Yep they have messed up big time.

Will get hold of Postggi to gain advice on what he did.

How you doing?

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I actually have an 'ok' experience with welcome -

 

I had poor credit rating and actually got a loan for a reasonable apr considering - 30%ish i think (poor for loans but better than most for welcome) ... the car was 7.5k and I'll pay a total of £12.7k over 4 years ... it really could be worse than that for someone with CCJ's like me. (£270 per month but adjusted because of my ppi overpayments)

 

I took the PPI and Gap insurance foolishly and realised later that the total cost of £5k over the 48 month loan and sent a letter during cooling off period to cancel. That was ignored so I battered the head office and chairman with letters and it all got sorted in the end. This was back in early 2008, a nuisance but even better branded companies have caused me more hassle than that.

 

I missed the news of them going bust at the end of last year, it was the car dealer phoning to tell me to come and get another car off them and give this one back to welcome to cancel the agreement because they had gone under that revealed the news. The facts were that I can hand it back under T&C after half the loan is paid regardless of Welcome going bust so I'll stick it out for now unless I get a guaranteed loan for less APR.

 

Anyway the reason I write on here is different. Are welcome still actively chasing payment? At the end of last year when I was blissfully unaware of them going bust they phoned me every month to check I'd still be paying and arranged new payment dates over Christmas and so on.

 

This month I have changed banks and cancelled all direct debits 2 weeks ago. Within a day or so of cancelling my direct debits all the companies like insurance have contacted me and asked for new DD details which I have provided. Except for welcome.

 

I have now missed the due payment and heard nothing. I'm now a few days later and heard nothing so I'll keep the money aside and hope they have forgotten about me!

Edited by tmsix
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I actually have an 'ok' experience with welcome -

 

I had poor credit rating and actually got a loan for a reasonable apr considering - 30%ish i think (poor for loans but better than most for welcome) ... the car was 7.5k and I'll pay a total of £12.7k over 4 years ... it really could be worse than that for someone with CCJ's like me. (£270 per month but adjusted because of my ppi overpayments)

 

I took the PPI and Gap insurance foolishly and realised later that the total cost of £5k over the 48 month loan and sent a letter during cooling off period to cancel. That was ignored so I battered the head office and chairman with letters and it all got sorted in the end. This was back in early 2008, a nuisance but even better branded companies have caused me more hassle than that.

 

I missed the news of them going bust at the end of last year, it was the car dealer phoning to tell me to come and get another car off them and give this one back to welcome to cancel the agreement because they had gone under that revealed the news. The facts were that I can hand it back under T&C after half the loan is paid regardless of Welcome going bust so I'll stick it out for now unless I get a guaranteed loan for less APR.

 

Anyway the reason I write on here is different. Are welcome still actively chasing payment? At the end of last year when I was blissfully unaware of them going bust they phoned me every month to check I'd still be paying and arranged new payment dates over Christmas and so on.

 

This month I have changed banks and cancelled all direct debits 2 weeks ago. Within a day or so of cancelling my direct debits all the companies like insurance have contacted me and asked for new DD details which I have provided. Except for welcome.

 

I have now missed the due payment and heard nothing. I'm now a few days later and heard nothing so I'll keep the money aside and hope they have forgotten about me!

 

I hope you realise you will have been charged £10 for each of those calls!!!

 

Welcome don't forget, they'll turn up out of the blue and repossess your car at no notice!

Take care please.

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I hope you realise you will have been charged £10 for each of those calls!!!

 

Welcome don't forget, they'll turn up out of the blue and repossess your car at no notice!

Take care please.

 

Thanks and I will take care. I have never missed a payment so I can argue the phone calls were unnecessary so they shouldn't charge £10. And my defence for not contacting them about my change of bank details is that the local office I dealt with is now shut and the phone number unavailable.

 

I'm about 60% paid so I'm above the half way threshold and therefore they need a court order to snatch the motor.

 

I actually do expect them to ask for the money soon but it's worth a gamble. It won't be the first company to "forget" that I had owed them something!

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Thanks and I will take care. I have never missed a payment so I can argue the phone calls were unnecessary so they shouldn't charge £10. And my defence for not contacting them about my change of bank details is that the local office I dealt with is now shut and the phone number unavailable.

 

I'm about 60% paid so I'm above the half way threshold and therefore they need a court order to snatch the motor.

 

I actually do expect them to ask for the money soon but it's worth a gamble. It won't be the first company to "forget" that I had owed them something!

 

Quite right, they cannot rock up and take your car, that would be theft. Unless you hand over the keys they cannot do this without court intervention. Sure you know this but better safe than sorry ;)

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Quite right, they cannot rock up and take your car, that would be theft. Unless you hand over the keys they cannot do this without court intervention. Sure you know this but better safe than sorry ;)

It's true they would need a court order to repossess and have served a valid default and termination notice, but it's never beyond Welcome to break the law!! I'm in court with them next week :D

All I'm saying is don't trust them an inch, we all know what they should do. Whether they do it or not is another matter! :eek:

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Yeah lol don't trust em.

 

I sent a letter recorded delivery, they had it Tuesday, which specifically said do not contact by phone, writing only.

 

What did they do today? So and so please contact me at welcome on no xxxx.

 

eff off I thought. I've sent a letter saying we won't pay so take us to court etc PMSL on the floor!

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Postggj, just to say hi, and how are you, sorry to hear about your knee... from one of the many you have greatly helped against those evil scumbags.... you were brilliant and were always there when I needed support, many many thanks & best wishes from Pru

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Well, all great news that Welcome is crumbling......but there seems to be enough staff left to issue me with a LBA!! They deny I'm entitled to the documents I've requested in my SAR, curiously by quoting Section 7 DPA 1988.

 

I will be updating my thread Welcome Secured Loan Mess, but, in the meantime, can anyone tell me why signing the 'agreement' in a Welcome office is significant? I didn't.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!!

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Yesterday I paid off my welcome finance loan. It was a small unsecured loan taken out over two years. I haven't ever had any phone calls from them, and the only correspondence received was my yearly statement. I paid each month on time, which is why I think I was left alone.

 

I'll be leaving this forum now, something a lot of people will no doubt be happy about, but my parting message is this:

 

To all those who have genuinely been mis-sold a product, lied to or or been deliberately misled, I wish you the very best of luck in your claims.

 

And to those who knew exactly what they were getting in to, but chose to throw caution to the wind, or never really intended to pay the loan back in the first place (and they do exist - you know who you are), I hope welcome get back every penny they are owed.

 

bye x.

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Yesterday I paid off my welcome finance loan. It was a small unsecured loan taken out over two years. I haven't ever had any phone calls from them, and the only correspondence received was my yearly statement. I paid each month on time, which is why I think I was left alone.

 

I'll be leaving this forum now, something a lot of people will no doubt be happy about, but my parting message is this:

 

To all those who have genuinely been mis-sold a product, lied to or or been deliberately misled, I wish you the very best of luck in your claims.

 

And to those who knew exactly what they were getting in to, but chose to throw caution to the wind, or never really intended to pay the loan back in the first place (and they do exist - you know who you are), I hope welcome get back every penny they are owed.

 

bye x.

Bye Bye
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Well, all great news that Welcome is crumbling......but there seems to be enough staff left to issue me with a LBA!! They deny I'm entitled to the documents I've requested in my SAR, curiously by quoting Section 7 DPA 1988.

 

I will be updating my thread Welcome Secured Loan Mess, but, in the meantime, can anyone tell me why signing the 'agreement' in a Welcome office is significant? I didn't.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

you cant cancel it

 

no cooling off period

 

but they wont tell you that

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