Chalkitup v DCA's

[Chalkitup]

Hello All.

Sorry this is a little long but first thread for me so will give a little back ground history.

I have been gathering info on this site for a few months now and already it has helped me.

Three years ago my business sales dropped considerably so borrowed from cards to try and keep going. End of 2006 I realized my problems and started DMP with CCCS paying multiple accounts off between 9 creditors and in all a six figure sum. All going well until recently when three original creditors decided to use DCA’s. These are 1st Credit, CBS Transcom and Unidebt Collections (last one is for sole trader business account overdraft with Nat West).

Basically I have been receiving the usual nasty phone calls at all hours (I refuse to give any security details which as we know totally confuses the DCA worker) plus been receiving the normal “just within the law” threatening letters from all three. Last week during two calls after being asked for security details many times and refusing plus adding all correspondence must be in writing and then being told that the calls will continue until I submit my patience snapped and I told two of the DCA’s that I was recording their calls and they immediately told me that I can not use the recording for anything because I did not inform them at the start of the call that I was recording etc etc. From information received on CAG site I knew my rights and told them they were wrong and surprise surprise they both hung up on me. In one of the calls from 1st Credit I decided enough was enough and I went into full flow about CCA and Deed of Assignment and asked if they had actually purchased the debt but alas they cut off the call before any answers to my questions.

CHALKITUP THEN THINKS TO HIMSELF “CRICKEY THESE PEOPLE REALLY HATE TELEPHONE RECORDERS” SO I PURCHASE A TELEPHONE RECORDER FOR REAL!!!

Yesterday 1st Credit left the normal message on my answer machine to call them but this time with my new recorder running I eagerly oblige and call and when they reply I offer my reference number that they told me to give. I was informed the person I wanted to talk with is not at their desk and they will be told to phone me back. Hour later phone rings and it is 1st Credit person who originally called me but they were so polite it was sickening! They told me they have contacted CCCS direct and arranged for my monthly payment to CITI card to now go 1st Credit each month and they will review this procedure in six months time. Plus they added that no interest or charges have been or will be added other than a default fee which I queried as I have received no default notice from 1st Credit. I was told I do not get a default notice so I asked if they owned the debt now to which I was told that 1st Credit have purchased the debt from CITI.

And there you have it.

Help please on the following would be kindly received:-

 

1) When 1st Credit called me back they only asked if I was Chalkitup and I said yes, they did not ask ANY SECURITY QUESTIONS and I did not give my REFERANCE NUMBER to them. How did they know it was me? Have they not broken a data protection law? The call has been recorded by me!

 

2) Advice please on my next move with 1st Credit, obviously they have accepted the CCCS monthly payment BUT should I not CCA them for proof they can legally collect the debt? As I see from other threads that at anytime they can start getting nasty again.

 

3) Regarding CBS Transcom – I presume I now CCA them to see if they can legally collect this debt which was with original creditor MBNA.

 

4) Regarding Unidebt Collections (for sole trader business account overdraft with Nat West) – Can I CCA? Also the debt has risen in six months and Unidebt refuse to tell me what the charges are for so do I S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Nat West or Unidebt?

 

Thank You.

Chalkitup

[PriorityOne]

Hello All.

Sorry this is a little long but first thread for me so will give a little back ground history.

I have been gathering info on this site for a few months now and already it has helped me.

Three years ago my business sales dropped considerably so borrowed from cards to try and keep going. Did you borrow on business cards or on your personal ones ? End of 2006 I realized my problems and started DMP with CCCS paying multiple accounts off between 9 creditors and in all a six figure sum. Business accounts or personal credit cards/loan accounts ? All going well until recently when three original creditors decided to use DCA’s. These are 1st Credit, CBS Transcom and Unidebt Collections (last one is for sole trader business account overdraft with Nat West). You need a SAR (by recorded delivery) to re-claim any unlawful charges on this one. You can do this for all the others as well... but if they are personal accounts, you can use the CCA route to check and see if they can lawfully collect payments from you in the first place.....

Basically I have been receiving the usual nasty phone calls at all hours (I refuse to give any security details which as we know totally confuses the DCA worker) plus been receiving the normal “just within the law” threatening letters from all three. Last week during two calls after being asked for security details many times and refusing plus adding all correspondence must be in writing and then being told that the calls will continue until I submit my patience snapped and I told two of the DCA’s that I was recording their calls and they immediately told me that I can not use the recording for anything because I did not inform them at the start of the call that I was recording etc etc. From information received on CAG site I knew my rights and told them they were wrong and surprise surprise they both hung up on me. In one of the calls from 1st Credit I decided enough was enough and I went into full flow about CCA and Deed of Assignment and asked if they had actually purchased the debt but alas they cut off the call before any answers to my questions.

CHALKITUP THEN THINKS TO HIMSELF “CRICKEY THESE PEOPLE REALLY HATE TELEPHONE RECORDERS” SO I PURCHASE A TELEPHONE RECORDER FOR REAL!!!

Yesterday 1st Credit left the normal message on my answer machine to call them but this time with my new recorder running I eagerly oblige and call and when they reply I offer my reference number that they told me to give. I was informed the person I wanted to talk with is not at their desk and they will be told to phone me back. Hour later phone rings and it is 1st Credit person who originally called me but they were so polite it was sickening! They told me they have contacted CCCS direct and arranged for my monthly payment to CITI card to now go 1st Credit each month and they will review this procedure in six months time. I wasn't aware that 1st Credit would have any authority to tell CCCS where to send your money to... Plus they added that no interest or charges have been or will be added other than a default fee an unlawful charge which I queried as I have received no default notice from 1st Credit. I was told I do not get a default notice That's complete bowlarks.. you're meant to... so I asked if they owned the debt now to which I was told that 1st Credit have purchased the debt from CITI.

And there you have it. In that case, you should have received a Notice of Assignment from either/both parties involved in the sale.

Help please on the following would be kindly received:-

 

1) When 1st Credit called me back they only asked if I was Chalkitup and I said yes, they did not ask ANY SECURITY QUESTIONS and I did not give my REFERANCE NUMBER to them. How did they know it was me? Have they not broken a data protection law? The call has been recorded by me! Yes, they have...

 

2) Advice please on my next move with 1st Credit, obviously they have accepted the CCCS monthly payment BUT should I not CCA them for proof they can legally collect the debt? I'm not sure that you can do this for business accounts, which is why I asked you what kind of accounts they were.As I see from other threads that at anytime they can start getting nasty again.

 

3) Regarding CBS Transcom – I presume I now CCA them to see if they can legally collect this debt which was with original creditor MBNA. If it's a personal loan/credit card account, then yes.

 

4) Regarding Unidebt Collections (for sole trader business account overdraft with Nat West) – Can I CCA? I don't believe that CCA law applies here, but you can re-claim all unlawful charges through a SAR.. and bring the account down to its true balance. Also the debt has risen in six months and Unidebt refuse to tell me what the charges they won't, but if you send a SAR, then they have no choice are for so do I S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Nat West or Unidebt? The SAR should go to the original creditor in order to see what charges were added before it was passed/sold to anyone else. It may be worth you sending a SAR to Unidebt somewhere down the track, but since charges would have been added before it was passed/sold, it makes sense to start there.

 

Thank You.

Chalkitup

 

[Chalkitup]

Hello PriorityOne and thank you for your assistance.

Here are answers to the questions you raised:-

I borrowed on personal cards, one personal loan account and one business bank account overdraft.

I will send off SAR to Natwest regarding business account overdraft charges tomorrow.

I will send off CCA requests to 1st Credit (original creditor Citi card) and CBS Transcom (original creditor MBNA card) tomorrow also.

So the default fee added to the debt by 1st Credit is infact an unlawful charge then? I will await the CCA outcome and if needed I will then SAR them.

I agree with you in that I wasn't aware that 1st Credit would have any authority to tell CCCS where to send my money. I feel very uneasy that CCCS have just accepted 1st Credit’s word over the phone and not contacted me for my permission and views on the subject. This is making the DCA’s job a lot easier!

Not sure how to proceed on 1st Credit not asking me any security questions at the start of the telephone call I recorded. They could have been talking to anyone about my account.

Regarding the Natwest business account overdraft. I read a thread only the other day on here and there was a little confusion as to whether we can CCA or not. I will have another look or perhaps someone will drop in and advise.

Onwards and upwards.

[PriorityOne]

Make sure all of your CCA requests go off by rec. delivery (one for each account) and keep the receipts... as these are your proof of when each legal request was made.

 

Keep all correspondence that they send you from now on and if you receive any 'phone calls, make a note of the date and time, but do not talk to them. Hang up and walk away.... or they will come out with the usual bowlarks in order to get a payment from you.

 

I am fairly sure that the business account overdraft is not covered by CCA law...but if anyone can come along and correct/contradict me, that would be great.

 

[Chalkitup]

Hello Again,

I have now sent the CCA requests to 1st Credit, CBS Transcom and Unidebt Collections (this one for the business account as another thread says an overdraft is covered by CCA!) plus a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to NatWest for business account.

Should I CCA the other creditors as well (all original creditors bar Amex who passed it on to RMA and HFC Marbles are making noises about selling debt on) even though my CCCS debt management plan is running smoothly with them at present and they have given me no hassle yet.

Advice appreciated again please.

 

Thank you,

Chalkitup.

[Chalkitup]

Whoops .... forgot to add ..... another reason I wondered about CCA all the rest is to find out if charges and interest are still being added to the debts because I believe they have to supply me with the up to date amount still owed in a CCA request.

 

Thanks,

Chalkitup

[PriorityOne]

Hi again,

 

It's up to you whether you want to CCA the rest now or not. As they are still with original creditors and not hassling you, you may want to leave it for a while.

 

The only way you will find out what's been added to the accounts in charges and interest though is through a SAR to each creditor.... the CCA request will simply place the accounts in dispute. A lot depends on whether you think you are owed more in charges than what they claim is owed by you.... as if there turns out to be no CCA.... then they can't enforce anything anyway.

 

So, you would need to decide which route you want to go down. SAR for charges now and carry on paying... or CCA to see if they can legally collect from you or not..... stop paying if they don't have it.... and forego the charges.

 

[Chalkitup]

Thank you.

I will just carry on paying the original creditors at present as I have only sent CCA requests to the above DCA's owing to the disgusting tactics that they tried on me. However I will review the situation in a few months.

 

One other point ... Default Notices ... OFT state date of service of notice is the date on which notice is sent or notice is delivered. Where a notice is sent by post allowance should be made for delivery time when calculating the date by which the breach must be remedied.

14 days is the given time as we know ....

Hence would the following be legally invalid Default Notices as they have given 14 and 13 days only from date of notice:-

Arrow Global ....... notice dated 05 July 2007 ..... told must remedy breach by 19 July 2007

and

Citi ..... notice dated 08 May 2007 .... told must remedy breach by 21 May 2007.

 

Royal Mail site shows x2 CCA's + x1 S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) have been delivered today ... countdown commences.

 

Only one CCA still to be delivered.

 

Thank you

Chalkitup

[PriorityOne]

There are others on the site who know more about Default Notices than I do... but I've read threads where Default Notices have been faulty in some way, so wouldn't be surprised if your ones are as well....

 

[Chalkitup]

Latest Update.

 

In reply to my CCA request I received the standard 1st Credit letter this morning as follows:-

----------------

REQUEST FOR COPY AGREEMENT

I refer to your communication asking 1st Credit Ltd to provide you with a copy of the relevant agreement.

 

We will shortly be advising our client of your request. This document will be sent to you as soon as possible. This process may take at least one month.

 

Once you have received a copy of this agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of this debt.

 

--------------

Take at least a month !! .... 12 + 2 days and then 30 days are ticking !!

 

Stand by your beds for further developments!

 

Chalkitup

[Hopeful1]

Just subscribing Chalkitup - tick tock tick tock

[PriorityOne]

Once you have received a copy of this agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of this debt.

 

Yeah right....

[Chalkitup]

Greetings Again and Hello to Hopeful1,

 

I need someone to just confirm that I am doing the right thing here with CBS Transcom DCA this time ....

---------

I sent CCA request to CBS Transcom on 28/07 ... they received and signed for it 30/07.

Today 04/08 I receive the following from them dated 03/08...

---------

OUR REF : XXXXXXX

DEBT VALUE : XXXXXXX

As you are aware, we have been instructed by ARROW GLOBAL in respect of the above debt.

We cannot trace a response to our last letter to you nor any recent payment. It is imperative that you let us have your proposals for payment of this outstanding debt immediately to avoid further action being taken.

 

Please find enclosed a standing order mandate, which we requireyou to complete and return to us in order for all future payments to come to us directly.

 

We look forward to receiving your completed standing order mandate by return and should you wish to contact us to discuss your account, our telephone number is 01727 816670.

----------------------

 

I am on a DMP with CCCS and have told CCCS to keep paying the original creditor MBNA for the time being until a CCA arrives!. This CCCS are doing.

 

The standing order mandate that CBS Transcom have sent is a childish typed out form asking for all my bank details and my home, work and mobile phone numbers!!

 

I intend to ignore this last letter from CBS Transcom and sit back and wait as 12 + 2 days are ticking for CBS / MBNA as they are for the other DCA's.

 

Am I correct ?

Thanks

Chalkitup

[Hopeful1]

I would be inclined to ignore them too. If you're still making payments and have an honourable witness in the form of CCCS to confirm that, i wouldn't worry. I think they are more intersted in trying to obtain personal details from what you've said.

 

Best wishes

[Chalkitup]

Latest Update.

 

In reply to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on my sole trader business account overdraft and my private account overdraft received by Nat West bank on 30/07/07 ... I received a letter this morning (11/08/07) from Nat West which is dated 02/08/07 telling me they can not send my details to my P.O. Box and I must give another address or collect from a local branch.????

HOWEVER they have been sending all my communications since 2001 to my P.O. BOX !!

-----

Nevermind .... I intend to reply saying I will collect from local branch.

Please advise me ... does the 40 days time limit still run from when they received the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on 30/07/07 or does it start afresh now?

------

 

Also received today from Unidebt Collections a letter giving me 7 days to contact them or they may proceed with court action and instruct their local debt collection agent to call. They do not mention my CCA request at all in their letter.

This debt is for the Nat West sole trader business account overdraft -Unidebt Collections received a CCA request from me on 31/07/07 (I sent it because another CAG thread says an overdraft is covered by CCA!)

-------

Please advise me ... Do I still just wait for the 12+2 days to pass?

I also intend to send Unidebt Collections the following letter (I found it on this site some weeks ago) ...

Dear Sir/Madam,

Ref xxxxxxxx

Please be advised that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing and therefore, if it remains your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property, and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

---------

Incidentally I am still on a DMP with CCCS and have told CCCS to keep paying the original creditors and not to pay DCA's unless instructed by me. This should stop the DCA's calling CCCS and getting payment changed to themselves as happened with 1st Credit.

I intend to keep my DMP running with CCCS and pay all the creditors who have proved they are legally entitled to collect the debt and who do not harass, threaten or intimidate me.

 

Stand by your beds for further developments!

 

Chalkitup

[Hopeful1]

The 40 day time limit starts when they receive your request. It is the limit within in which they have to send the required information.

 

I shall leave the experts to comment on the business account

[PriorityOne]

They "may" proceed with court action.... Just wait for them to go into default.... if it's an account with an overdraft, then you should be covered.

 

If you have not yet sent the bog off letter.... you can add the following paras at the top.

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

With reference to your letter of xx/xx/2007, a request for my Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) was received by yourselves on xx/xx/2007. Therefore, until such times as you are able to comply with this legal request for information, no payments will be forthcoming.

 

[Chalkitup]

Thank you for all the assistance.

 

I shall write the letters tomorrow and send recorded again on Monday.

 

Chalkitup

[remus]

subscibing chalkitup,

[linz2011]

subbing good luck x

[Chalkitup]

Hello remus and linz2011 .... Welcome aboard.

Funny enough I have recently been following threads that you two have started.

The information on this site is very good.

 

My letters sent off recorded yesterday.

 

Incidentally before I found out we do not have to tell creditors that we are recording the calls I let slip to a couple they were being recorded. Since then no calls at all from them!!

 

Onwards and Upwards.

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Whoooops...

 

Regarding my remark in last post .... "Incidentally before I found out we do not have to tell creditors that we are recording the calls I let slip to a couple they were being recorded. Since then no calls at all from them!!""

 

Spoke too soon ......... CBS Transcom have called again ..... However unlike every other call from them they were polite and on being told I will not give security details as I want to correspond only in writing their operative finished the call with Thank you and Goodbye!

 

I think they have obviously taken note of the fact that I record all calls.

 

Onwards and Upwards.

Chalkitup

[PriorityOne]

It begins to feel good when they start bowing to your rules.... so to speak.

[Chalkitup]

Latest Update.

 

CCA requests:-

 

12+2 days deadline was last Friday 17/08/07 for CBS Transcom/MBNA.

12+2 days deadline was last Friday 17/08/07 for 1st Credit/CITI.

12+2 days deadline was yesterday 20/08/07 for Unidebt Collections/Nat West overdraft on business account.

 

Nothing received from any of them.

-----------------------

These are my next moves ..... are they correct:-

 

1) As previously explained I will keep paying the original creditors for the time being through my Debt Management Plan with CCCS as this will be a plus point if court action is ever started against me. Hence I intend to wait now for 30 days and then complain to the proper authorities if the correct paperwork does not show and then review my payments.

 

2) Regarding the fact that approx three weeks ago 1st Credit contacted CCCS direct and arranged for my monthly payment to CITI card to go to 1st Credit each month without my knowledge ..... I now intend to contact CCCS and reverse the instruction so I am paying CITI direct from CCCS again.

 

Also:-

 

3) The default fee that 1st Credit told me has been added to my account ..... This I have been told is an unlawful charge plus I have not received any letters what so ever about a default from 1st Credit .... should I be contacting them to get the fee removed (I have not checked it has been added) or just sit tight for the 30 days etc. One other point which I hope somebody can help me on is ... Default Notices ... OFT state date of service of notice is the date on which notice is sent or notice is delivered. Where a notice is sent by post allowance should be made for delivery time when calculating the date by which the breach must be remedied. 14 days is the given time as we know ....

Hence would the following be legally invalid Default Notices as they have given 14 and 13 days only from date of notice :-

Arrow Global ....... I received a notice dated 05 July 2007 ..... it stated I must remedy breach by 19 July 2007

and

Citi ..... I received a notice dated 08 May 2007 .... it stated I must remedy breach by 21 May 2007.

 

4) Finally yet another creditor (HFC Bank/Marbles) phoned me the other day and spoke with me about my account without asking any security questions at all. I tried not to have much conversation with them as they were breaking the Data Protection rules by not checking who I was but they continued to give out my account information and amounts involved etc. Yet again how did they know it was me? Call was recorded as usual.

 

Thanking you in advance for help!!

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Help Please…

 

Following on and updating last post ….

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 17/08/07 for CBS Transcom/MBNA.

**CBS Transcom telephoned me on Wednesday and when I asked why they were calling as there is a CCA request in operation I was asked by the CBS chap “What is a CCA request and can I explain it to him”!**

-------------------

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 17/08/07 for 1st Credit/CITI.

Regarding the fact that approx three weeks ago 1st Credit contacted CCCS direct and arranged for my monthly payment to CITI card to go to 1st Credit each month without my knowledge ..... I HAVE NOW contacted CCCS and reversed the instruction ….. so I am now paying CITI card direct from CCCS again.

--------------------

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 20/08/07 for Unidebt Collections/Nat West overdraft on business account.

 

I read on CAG site that overdrafts come under CCA guidelines because interest in payable so I sent CCA request for my National Westminster business account overdraft (Sole trader hence - Chalkitup trading as XXXX) to Unidebt Collections who are part of Nat West group. Had reply today from Credit Management Services Nat West saying …

**

There is no CCA regulated agreement for the above account, the overdraft facility would have been confirmed by way of letter which does not require a customers signature. However, no authorised overdraft would have been sanctioned for the above type of account as Step Accounts are only to be operated with a credit balance.

We are required to give you a Statement of Account. Therefore, please find below all the relevant details that are compulsory under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Debit balance --- £XXXXXX

Interest Rate --- X% + base rate

Accrued interest from 3 June 2007 --- £XXXX

There are no charges accruing on the account.

**

 

NOW THIS IS WHERE I REQUIRE HELP …. I feel that yet again Nat West are trying to confuse me OR they have the wrong information themselves!!! The letter from them is signed (absolutely unreadable) and under the signature it reads Recovery Manager. No name is given in print and as previously stated the letter is from Credit Management Services.

 

Help Please:-

1) What is a Step Account?

 

2) I am an ordinary member of the public and by their sentence “However, no authorised overdraft would have been sanctioned for the above type of account as Step Accounts are only to be operated with a credit balance” I take that to mean they would not give an overdraft on that account …. So how come since 2001 I have had an overdraft in place on that account which every year I have paid a FEE to renew?

 

3) The figure they give as Interest Rate is infact 1% lower than I have been / am paying.

 

4) Surely this letter from them does not constitute their full obligations under a CCA request … Does it? And who is correct regarding Sole Trader business account overdrafts … are they or are they not covered by CCA guidelines?

 

------------------------

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

I have also today received paperwork in answer to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to Nat West. Incidentally after all the past hassle they posted it in normal post to my P.O.Box after all.

 

All they have sent me are copies of my statements from 08/2001 to date.

 

5) Again surely just copies of statements does not represent their full obligations under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Should I not have transcripts to telephone calls and copies of letters received from them plus all notes made on my account?

 

6) Also they are still charging interest at a higher rate than my DMP monthly payment to them ….. what can I do about it? Pointless paying a DMP really as I can never clear the debt, infact it grows more every month!

 

-----------------------

 

Onwards and Upwards.

 

Chalkitup