Argos Card & JB Debt Recovery

[N.P]

Hi people,

 

Would you beleive while I was looking on CAG (now) the phone has just rang with a dodgy Scottish accent, so I knew exactly who it was.

 

RING RING

 

ME: What?

 

HIM: Can I speak to N.P please?

 

ME: Why?

 

HIM: Because he asked us for some information and I would like to know who to get it to him.

 

ME: Why?

 

HIM: Why what?

 

ME: What info has he supposed to have requested?

 

HIM: Who is this?

 

ME: It`s me.

 

HIM: This is (some clown who sounded muffled) from BJ Debt Recovery and we have been requested to call you and need to speak to you.

 

ME: So what! I know who it is and I don`t need to speak to you.

 

Click!

 

Can anyone help me with a suitable letter outlining I beleive Argos have breached Data Protections as they haven`t shown up with an eligible CCA stating that I gave them permission to use my information.

 

Something I could throw at these imbeciles too, that will miff them off and scatter them for good.

 

All help, comments info is much appreciated, thanks

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Right, we have an UPDATE again.

 

This morning I received the following letter from BJ.

 

It goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at it, it seems to be another bog standard threat.

 

The thing is, I sent them pt`s letter which disposed of Bryan Carters shabby outfit, so I`m, not sure if the idiots read it.

 

Any idea`s anyone?

 

Thanks.

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Just bumping this up for the night shift

[Brassed off]

Yep, looks like another bog standard BS letter NP.

 

If you sent PT's letter recorded and you have proof it was signed for, then that's all you need IMO. They probably didn't read it or if they did, they probably didn't understand it

 

Bumping up for further comment

[N.P]

HI Brassed off,

 

Thanks for your post on this one.

 

Yeah, I DID send PT`s letters to these morons as soon as I heard from them in the first place.

 

I agree with you on they either didn`t read or they didn`t understand, or perhaps, they read it and totaly ignored it.

 

My girlfriend text me at work this morning to say they actually rang again this morning before 9, which she never answered. They left some BS on the answer machine.

 

Do you think I should send them another copy with a big DO NOT IGNORE - IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS UNDERSTANDING THIS THEN PLEASE CONSULT YOUR LEGAL TEAM OR SOME OTHER EMPTY HEAD THAT DOES. ?

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Brassed off]

Nope, I wouldn't bother NP

 

Have you sent the telephone harrassment letter yet?

[N.P]

Nope, I wouldn't bother NP

 

Have you sent the telephone harrassment letter yet?

 

 

Err, no. I do have one saved, but I also noticed a good one the other night, which went somwhere along the lines that these idiots are hogging up a Private phone for there own annoying use. I can`t think what thread / it was on. I beleive it was originally posted by DMD.

 

I was wanting to add the contents to my own letter I have saved, to REALLY give them a page full, shall we say?

 

Thanks

 

 

N.P

[Brassed off]

It will be on his infamous Rob Way thread no doubt

 

Drop him a PM and I'm sure he will oblige

[N.P]

It will be on his infamous Rob Way thread no doubt

 

Drop him a PM and I'm sure he will oblige

 

 

Good thinking,

 

I`ll do that now, before I forget, I keep forgetting to do stuff lately

Edited July 11, 2008 by N.P
Dodgy spelling

[Brassed off]

Welcome to my world

[sillygirl1]

Don't forget to include an 'invoice' to them for your services - list the following

 

£9.50 per hour for research

£50 per hour for legal advice

£12 for sending the letter and secretarial services

 

You could 'round it up' to £100 with phone calls and 'other disbursements'....

 

Also state that your terms are 28 days for payment, if no payment received then automatic legal proceedings will commence.....

[N.P]

Hi sillygirl,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

Can we actually charge them for that lot? I`ve been doing more than an hour`s worth of Research.

 

The thing is, if I did put that down and it goes further, they may want evidence of these costs.

 

£9.50 per hour for Research - I have heard of this before, but don`t know if it`s true or not.

 

£50 per hour for legal advice - That could be PT`s fee ;-)

£12 for sending our lass to the Post Office etc, LOL.

 

Does that sound about right?

 

If these costs can genuinely be added then I`ll put them down.

 

I could also do with a good letter to go with it, I could send them another copy of the one they either haven`t or couldn`t read.

 

Thanks again.

 

Keep the posts coming people.

 

 

N.P

[sillygirl1]

Not sure if a lot of the costs are actually chargeable to them but it is well worth a try, especially if they are 'blowing in the wind'!

 

£9.50 per hour is what you can charge if you are a 'litigant in person' at court for fees so I think it is worth trying.

 

I get really fed up with DCAs who send out the letters without looking at the accounts, if that stopped happening the postman would be better off as well. Their threatomatic machines go into action and nobody wants to stop it until the magic words "PAID IN FULL" appear. Regardless of whether the person actually does need to pay the debt in question in the first place.

 

I have my own particular battles going on - one on this forum will be updated shortly and I am going to list all the possible charges from my side in a letter to the courts for a 'wasted costs' order as well as various other bits and pieces. Its the lovely Crap 1 who don't even know they have ALREADY taken me to court and lost (so there is now another lot of letters regarding their admission going out on Monday).

[sillygirl1]

For the letter to go with it I'd try

 

Dear DCA Drone

 

Thank you for your letter dated .... this is clearly NOT in reply to my letter to you of xxx (attached). I therefore need a proper reply to my letter before I will even begin considering your letter.

 

If this has crossed in the post then I apologise, otherwise you have 14 days from the acknowledgement of receipt on the Post Office website to reply.

 

REMEMBER NOT TO SIGN IT..... after all they use a squiggle and not a proper signature.

[pt2537]

N.P. i would resend the letter i posted with a covering letter, saying,

 

Dear Sirs

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my letter dated XXXXX

 

this letter was sent to your company via recorded delivery and was delivered on xxxxx. Todate i have not received a reply only more frivolous demands for payments

 

Until you address the points raised in my letter dated xxx you have failed to substantiate a legal claim to any monies and furthermore, as previously pointed out the credit agreement is irredeemably flawed and could not be enforced even by a court order

 

 

Furthermore you will no doubt be aware of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Your conduct by ignoring my correspondence places you in a clear breach of these regulations and i suggest you take immediate steps to deal with this situation, firstly by acknowledging my letter and by responding favourably and not with some lame template reply

 

I look forward to your reply no later than 7 days from delivery of this letter

[N.P]

Hi people,

 

I`m back again, been out for the day with the little un` and other half.

 

Right, hi Paul, thanks for that letter. It`s good to here from you matey

 

Sillygirl was on the right track, but it`s a case of finding the right wording, you know what I mean? Something simple these imbeciles can understand ;-)

 

Do you think it would be ok to paste in the `Telephone Harassment Letter` onto the bottom of that? Maybe starting with `Further to the above, with reference to you recent nuisance calls (then rest of letter)

 

Thanks again.

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

I find it best to do one thing per letter. If you give them too many things in one, they tend to ignore most of it.

 

I have been known to send 4 letters in one week to the same DCA. Gets better results most of the time.

 

Failing that,CAPITAL LETTERS, no joined up writing, and written in crayon works too.

[N.P]

It will be on his infamous Rob Way thread no doubt

 

Drop him a PM and I'm sure he will oblige

 

 

 

I DID PM diskmandave and he replied with 3 different letters. what a guy, the guys a `MegaStar`

[Brassed off]

Yep, he's "the man" NP

 

Told you so

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Right, just a quickie to let you know that the following 2 letters are enveloped up and ready to fly. They`ll go Recorded Delivery first thing at Sun Rise.

 

 

 

 

 

13th July 2008

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

 

 

Dear JBDR,

 

Reference:

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my letter dated 1st June 2008.

 

This letter was sent to your company via recorded delivery and was delivered on 4th June 2008.To date I have not received a reply, only more frivolous demands for payments.

 

Until you address the points raised in my letter dated 1st June you have failed to substantiate a legal claim to any monies and furthermore, as previously pointed out the credit agreement is irredeemably flawed and could not be enforced even by a Court order.

 

Furthermore you will no doubt be aware of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Your conduct by ignoring my correspondence places you in a clear breach of these regulations and I suggest you take immediate steps to deal with this situation, firstly by acknowledging my letter and by responding favourably and not with some lame template reply.

 

I look forward to your reply no later than 7 days from delivery of this letter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

N.P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

 

 

 

 

Dear JBDR,

 

Reference:

 

 

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

This account is in Dispute.

 

On 24 July 2007 I wrote to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd requesting that Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account. Some eight (8) months later, in response to this request, Fredrickson International Ltd supplied me with a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The cover letter was dated 6th March 2008.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:

 

1) Number of repayments;

2) Amount of repayments;

3) Frequency and timing of repayments;

4) Dates of repayments;

5) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Further more, since the prescribed terms referred to above do not appear within the agreement your client has supplied, the agreement is rendered totally unenforceable, as the prescribed terms must be contained within the agreement and not a separate document, case law confirms this opinion

 

I refer you to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

”[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Schedule 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest miss-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1."

 

Therefore the prescribed terms cannot be contained within a separate document outside of the agreement

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

As it stands, the document supplied by your client is not a valid credit agreement nor is it enforceable by any court

 

 

What I Require

 

Firstly, I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to Trading Standards, the Financial ombudsman service and the Office of Fair Trading. In addition I may report your conduct to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Law Society

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that your clients do not hold a signed copy of a credit agreement containing the prescribed terms. Therefore the fact that they do not hold such document means that you cannot obtain an enforcement order in court. The case of Wilson-v-FCT sets this out as previously referred to above.

 

Should you believe that you have grounds to enforce this agreement, please provide me with a signed copy of the credit agreement that you would consider relying upon? Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement your clients have supplied as it stands is unenforceable, should you be unable to produce a compliant agreement it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

I trust this out lines the situation.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

N.P

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right, that`s it. I hope every approves.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[Hopeful1]

Look at you with your no messing letters

 

Doubt they'll understand it, but they look good to me

Edited July 14, 2008 by Hopeful1
it's too late / early to type AND make sense!

[N.P]

Look at you with your no messing letters

 

Doubt they'll understand it, but they look good to me

 

 

Hi Hoppeful1,

 

Hah hah, yeah they probably won`t understand it, but at least it looks good

 

I`ll probably get auto-responder 3 or 4, or some crap :?

 

Are you on night shift or something?

 

 

 

N.P

[Hopeful1]

 

Are you on night shift or something?

 

 

Yep, it was a night shift of sorts - the little one woke me up at 2 'cause he'd wet the bed. As i was still awake at 3am thinking about all the things i needed to do for work today, i decided it was best just to get up and do them!! Obviously once my laptop's on, i cannot resist a quick peek at CAG

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Right, not much to report really.

 

Just BJ rang twice this morning. One from their 0800 number leaving no message on the answer machine. The second call was from a witheld number, but they left a dodgy sounding message asking me to call them back immediately quoting a case number. Derrrrrrrr, ok, I will, IMMEDIATELY.

 

The letter I posted the other day still hasn`t been signed for, so we`ll wait and see.

 

 

 

N.P

Edited July 16, 2008 by N.P
Dodgy spelling

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Looks like BJ signed for that letter this morning, we`ll see what they do next.

 

 

 

N.P