Argos Card & JB Debt Recovery

[N.P]

Na, their address wasn`t on the envelope. It was one of them plain `UK Mail` envelopes that everyone has had.

 

I`d like to send it back to them, so they cover the cost, to p**s them off a bit more.

 

Know what I mean?

[Hopeful1]

Please let us know when you've worked out what on earth that was that they sent you or the point of it

[N.P]

Please let us know when you've worked out what on earth that was that they sent you or the point of it

 

 

Hah hah, well, it`s exactly what it looks like. A silly `With Compliments` slip and a Argos statement from May 2007.

 

Mmmmm, come to think of it. I can`t see any anything about PPI on that, yet I was paying it, unless I`ve totaly missed it

[fuzzybobble]

Mmmm, just thought, Argos having been dishing my details out, including my phone number to these knob heads, yet I can`t see anything anywhere that looks like I`ve agreed to that.

 

Any idea`s anyone?

 

 

 

N.P

 

Actually that is a very very, good point. Could you have stumbled on something? May be worth checking this out and using it against them if we can.

[N.P]

Actually that is a very very, good point. Could you have stumbled on something? May be worth checking this out and using it against them if we can.

 

 

Hi fuzzy,

 

Thanks for that. Does anyone else agree?

 

With only a dodgy single sider for a so-called CCA, which I can`t even read. With no permission, surely they must be in breach of the DPA, especially handing out our home number, which is ex-directory.

 

If anyone can come up with something to send, then I`ll glady send it

 

We`ll all pulverise them!

 

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

May be worth a new thread asking that question directly, so everyone sees it, and also a link to this one to save explaining why you're asking the question in the first place.

[N.P]

Evening all,

 

Well, after nearly two months of peace and quiet (except for the damn kids), I have received another silly letter.

 

This time they have got Columbo on the case.

 

It goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

After done some investigating of my own. It looks like these goons are part of BJ Debt Recovery. These empty heads must think highly of themselves to think they can trace and invcestigate me, considering I told Argos where I was in the first place.

 

I`m thinking of just ignoring this nonsense.

 

Does anyone think otherwise?

 

 

 

N.P

[ScarletPimpernel]

Hmmm....

 

Oh what a tangled web they weave:

 

No registered office address on the letterhead, so in breach of the Companies Act.

 

Perhaps they don't want anyone to look at Companies House website, which shows that Asset Collection and Investigation Ltd is a dormant company, whose accounts are overdue by several months.

 

Then again, maybe they don't want anyone to check out the Information Commissioner's website, which reveals that the company does not appear to be registered as a data controller, so they should not be processing any data. They aren't registered as a trading style of JB Debt Recovery, either.

 

The consumer credit licence appears to be genuine - except that it comes back to yet another address, and with a registered office address that is different to the one registered with Companies House. They are registered as trading under the name JBW Debt Collection (see below).

 

Companies House says:

Registered Office -

7 LEMON STREET

TRURO

CORNWALL

PL1 2NS

 

OFT Consumer Credit Licence database says:

Registered Office -

Homelea House

Faith Avenue

Qarriers Village

Bridge of Weir

PS11 3SX

 

The principal place of business is shown as 176, Bath Street, Glasgow, G2 4SE - the same as JB Debt Recovery! JBW Debt Collection, on the other hand, is shown on the ICO website as a trading style of an entirely different company - JBW Enforcement Ltd., whose address is:

 

RESPONSE HOUSE

16 HEWETT STREET

LONDON

EC2A 3NN

 

JBW Enforcement Ltd. is a new company, formed at the end of Sept 08 - and yet they have been registered ith ICO since 2004. However, it is known that this is Jamie Waller, the bailiff who performs on television. So, it seems that Asset Collection & investigation may be posing as another company - potentially leaving themselves open to a charge of passing-off.

 

In summary, then, this dormant company appears to be a front for JB, who, with Argos, have third party responsibility for their activities. Processing data without registration is illegal, and they have lied about their registered office to either the OFT or Companies House. Their demands for payment are unlawful because JB are in default of a CCA request.

 

Personally, I'd have no confidence in having any dealings at all with a company which appears to be based upon a foundation of deception and non-compliance with legal obligations. Any contact, other than a suitably worded invitation to refer to Arkell v. Pressdram might be seen as condoning this gang of wretches' unlawful activities - and that would never do.

 

What would do is a robust complaint to Argos, enclosing copies of reports to all the relevant enforcement agencies.

Edited November 4, 2008 by ScarletPimpernel

[N.P]

HI SP,

 

Thanks for that. I must say I`m very impressed with your detective skills. They are probably better than our new friends skills of investigation.

 

Quite a little bundle of foul play you`ve reveiled there, but where do I start? I`m not much good at wording letters, but I can see what you mean.

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

I`ve just read your edited post.

 

This is getting VERY interesting. Does this mean I`m going to be on TV with that idiot?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I`ve just read your edited post.

 

This is getting VERY interesting. Does this mean I`m going to be on TV with that idiot?

 

 

I think not; Waller has JBW Enforcement Ltd., and J.B.W. Enforcement Ltd. registered at Companies House. It is this company that has registered the trading style JB Debt Collection as a trading style with Information Commissioners Office. I don't theink there's any connection - indeed, Waller's company might have a cause of action against JB Debt Recovery if they were first to use the JB Debt Collection name, and could show that JB Debt Recovery are profiting by using their trading name - this is known as passing-off. This may be a bit of a red herring, but I thought it worth mentioning.

 

According to the OFT, the people behind JB Debt Recovery are:

 

Celia & Jack Bunyer

 

The people behind Asset Collection and Investigations are:

 

Ann Neville

James Aitken

James Sherry Brown

 

It gets more interesting, however, because JB Debt Recovery don't have a consumer credit licence - it lapsed and has not been renewed.

 

The company registration number that JB Debt Recovery shows on their entry in the consumer credit licence database, and which is on their comp slip above, when entered on Companies House search, is returned as 'not found' - unsurprising really, because JB Debt Recovery Ltd., the company which held a consumer credit licence, doesn't exist - the registration number belongs to JB (Ventures) Ltd. - another company with a lapsed consumer credit licence - it was called JB Debt Recovery Ltd until 2001. Surely 7 years is long enough to sort their admin out?

 

JB's website says:

 

All of our tracing and collection activities are undertaken in full compliance with the relevant legislation. JB DEBT RECOVERY can present licenses for the key authorities:

 

CSA

OFT

 

Several self-stroking trade associations

 

So, JBDR can't legally collect debt if they don't have a consumer credit licence, and Assets etc. is dormant and can't process data.

 

It goes without saying that the pompous CSA is not a licencing authority. However, JB say that they comply with the CSA Code of Practice - indeed, they claim to have written it. We all know that CPUTR considers that failing to comply with a code a trader has subscribed to is unfair trading, and the very first sentence of the CSA Code is (drum roll) that business must be conducted lawfully. So, add a complaint to the CSA to the list, and follow it up to Trading Standards and FOS.

[N.P]

Hi SP,

 

Well, I don`t know what to say about that. Where do you get all this information. I must admit though, you are good.

 

So, you think a letter to Argos, informing them of our findings, followed up with similar complaints to the CSA, TS & FOS?

 

I`ll need to buy some more ink, at this rate, as my printer is flashing.

 

I`ll catch up with you tomorrow on this, as it`s getting late now, but that really is interesting.

 

I could also add mis-sold PPI, as the person in store simply ticked the box, and there was no follow-ups or other information supplied. I don`t know id you know, but on their statements, they add any charges and the PPI together, so both amounts show as one sum. How the hell are you supposed to know what is going on there? And not to mention, their seriously shady CCA!

 

Thanks again mate, you really are full of info.

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Just another thought.

 

What about a snotty letter to BJDR and Assets telling them to get a licence before I will correspond with them on matters that are none of their business?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'd hold fire on that for the moment, and let them keep digging.

 

I'll stick something up later that you could send to Argos, and something for OFT.

[ScarletPimpernel]

It seems that Jack Bunyer, who was named as a former 'officer' of JB Debt Recovery on the OFT website, is the owner of Global Debt Recovery. Debt collecting does seem to be a somewhat incestuous world, doesn't it?

 

Incidentally, it seems that a Celia and Jack Bunyer gave £50 to 1 LANCS who did the London Marathon for charity, so at least a tiny bit of their ill-gotten gain is going to good use.

[N.P]

I'd hold fire on that for the moment, and let them keep digging.

 

I'll stick something up later that you could send to Argos, and something for OFT.

 

It seems that Jack Bunyer, who was named as a former 'officer' of JB Debt Recovery on the OFT website, is the owner of Global Debt Recovery. Debt collecting does seem to be a somewhat incestuous world, doesn't it?

 

Incidentally, it seems that a Celia and Jack Bunyer gave £50 to 1 LANCS who did the London Marathon for charity, so at least a tiny bit of their ill-gotten gain is going to good use.

 

 

Hi SP,

 

Thanks for the posts today. We`ve been to the Metro Center today and have just got back in.

 

I`ll hang fire on a response untill your say so.

 

Yep, Debt Collection is a dodgy business, it seems they just do whatever they want. That`s probably a trick of theirs to try and intimidate, bully and lie to people to try and get something out of us. i wouldn`t mind so much if these empty heads actually played ball, but as they don`t they can eat my ****!

 

You should start up an investigation business yourself, you seem pretty good at it, heh heh

 

As for the £50 charity donation. I don`t think that`s as generous as it may sound, that`s about what it costs to run the damn thing. The Great North Run is £40, and that`s just a Half Marathon.

 

Thanks again bud, I`ll catch you again soon.

 

 

 

N.P

Edited November 5, 2008 by N.P
Crap grammar and dodgy spelling

[N.P]

Just another thought.

 

If I just let them get on with their useless claim and it goes to Court, couldn`t I just have it thrown out as they shouldn`t be processing my data anyway, which in itself is a breach of the DPA?

 

An invalid CCA, with dodgy PPI and charges added and a breach of the DPA going to Court, sounds quite amusing that, doesn`t it?

 

 

 

N.P

[ScarletPimpernel]

Indeed. The further they go, the more trouble they will end up in. In many ways, letting them go to court would be the best way to ensure that they get a good shoeing. The various enforcement agencies are flaccid to say the least.

 

If they brought a claim, the defence would be most interesting!

 

I think it's worth chasing Argos. I had an unexpectedly busy day today, but will doa suitable letter later on.

[N.P]

Ok SP, roger that

 

I`ve got a letter to Cetelem to print out now for a PPI claim.

 

My printer is flashing low on ink, so I hope I can get the thing printed before it bombs out.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Dear Argos

 

I am writing to you because under the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection, you have third-party responsibility for the behaviour any debt collection agency you employ.

 

In this case, one of the debt collection agencies, JB Debt Recovery Ltd of 176 Bath Road, Glasgow G2 4HG has been pursuing me, as has its alter-ego Asset Collection and Investigations Ltd.

 

This letter is a formal complaint about the following points:

 

JB Recovery does not possess a valid consumer credit licence; trading as a debt collector without the correct licence is a criminal offence. The company registration number on their stationery is false, and belongs to a different company. This company appears to have supplied different registered office addresses to the OFT and Companies House.

 

Asset Collection and Investigation is a separate company, and is shown as dormant, i.e. not trading. Its statutory returns are considerably overdue. It's letterhead fails to show its registered office, contrary to the Companies Act. Asset Collection and Investigation is not registered as a data processor with the Information Commissioner, yet is clearly processing data - an offence.

 

Notwithstanding your choice of debt collection agencies, the facts remain that Argos remains in default of a formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Whilst in default, no payment may be demanded, and yet the agents you have employed have continued to ignore their legal obligation - but then, they seem to have had plenty of practice.

 

Whilst I will be reporting the above companies to the relevant enforcement agencies, I still require your proposals to resolve my complaints.

 

Yours etc

 

Alter to suit.

[N.P]

Alter to suit.

 

 

Hi SP,

 

That`s brilliant! Many thanks.

 

I`ll print it out now, before my printer bombs out. I`ll order some more ink now, also

 

This will definately get a response from them, not sure what kind, but I`ll definately get one.

 

Did you know, this is the 4th DCA now, this account has been with? As well as Bryan Carter Solicitors, but he was just an empty head anyway. Why don`t they just whack in a Court claim and get it over with?

 

Thanks again, no doubt I`ll be back soon with a dodgy reply

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Just a quickie before I print that out.

 

Do I need to change the paragraph regarding the `s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974`?

I DID receive a CCA, but it was seriously bad quality. It appear`s to be missing the required Terms and is pretty much un-readable.

Thanks.

N.P

[alanalana]

Hey NP have I seen your thread in PPI?

 

On the subject of DCA's have a quick look at this and see if it is of any use to you to fight an action against them. It was aimed at DCA's logging in as guests to see what was going on within the CAG site.

 

This Thread is aimed at you so you are all aware of your actions Within the Law or in fact Without the Law of the land. Please take note and absorb before you act Illegally.

 

Please have a look at this link harassment is against the Law...

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

These are a couple of extracts

 

England and Wales

 

1 Prohibition of harassment

 

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows—

(a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

© that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

 

2 Offence of harassment

 

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(3) In section 24(2) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted—

“(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).”.

 

3 Civil remedy

 

(1) An actual or apprehended breach of section 1 may be the subject of a claim in civil proceedings by the person who is or may be the victim of the course of conduct in question.

(2) On such a claim, damages may be awarded for (among other things) any anxiety caused by the harassment and any financial loss resulting from the harassment.

 

This is purely advice to help you ensure you are remaining within the Legal boundaries of the Land. Remember it is against the Law to harass:shock:

 

aa

 

 

I hope this is of use to you:)

 

aa

[N.P]

Hey NP have I seen your thread in PPI?

 

On the subject of DCA's have a quick look at this and see if it is of any use to you to fight an action against them. It was aimed at DCA's logging in as guests to see what was going on within the CAG site.

 

This Thread is aimed at you so you are all aware of your actions Within the Law or in fact Without the Law of the land. Please take note and absorb before you act Illegally.

 

Please have a look at this link harassment is against the Law...

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

These are a couple of extracts

 

England and Wales

 

1 Prohibition of harassment

 

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows—

(a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

© that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

 

2 Offence of harassment

 

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(3) In section 24(2) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted—

“(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).”.

 

3 Civil remedy

 

(1) An actual or apprehended breach of section 1 may be the subject of a claim in civil proceedings by the person who is or may be the victim of the course of conduct in question.

(2) On such a claim, damages may be awarded for (among other things) any anxiety caused by the harassment and any financial loss resulting from the harassment.

 

This is purely advice to help you ensure you are remaining within the Legal boundaries of the Land. Remember it is against the Law to harass:shock:

 

aa

 

 

I hope this is of use to you:)

 

aa

 

 

 

Hi AA,

 

Thanks for joining in on this one. Yes, you have seen my thread in the PPI Forums. I have a letter ready to fly tomorrow. I finally printed the thing out.

 

I`m confused now, you seem to have highlighted that this particular thread was for ME, and then also highlighted in Red certain Offences Of Harrassment and Civil Remedys.

 

Do you mean I may be acting illegaly or Argos, DCA`s are acting illegally? Excuse the dimness but it`s getting late, and I`ve had a few lazy days off

 

Thanks again, it`s good to see their are people still willing to help out.

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

I think I get it, you mean I could possibly quote these particular paragraphs to Argos / DCA`s etc?