Argos Card & JB Debt Recovery

[ScarletPimpernel]

I note that s.36(A) of the CCA 2006 imposes a duty upon holders of consumer credit licences to notify the OFT of any changes to its circumstances, such as registered office address. It is already an offence to fail to notify Companies House of any change. I suspect that if you look at my earlier posts the DCAs involved here may not have complied with their obligations.

[N.P]

I note that s.36(A) of the CCA 2006 imposes a duty upon holders of consumer credit licences to notify the OFT of any changes to its circumstances, such as registered office address. It is already an offence to fail to notify Companies House of any change. I suspect that if you look at my earlier posts the DCAs involved here may not have complied with their obligations.

 

 

Hi SP,

 

Should I add this section to my letter and also some snippets from Post aa`s Harassment Act post above?

 

Or should I just leave it as it is?

 

I`ll be printing it out later after my tea

 

 

 

N.P

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just back from a wedding...

 

Change this:

 

Notwithstanding your choice of debt collection agencies, the facts remain that Argos remains in default of a formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Whilst in default, no payment may be demanded, and yet the agents you have employed have continued to ignore their legal obligation - but then, they seem to have had plenty of practice.

to (unless they sent you an agreement, T&C at the time of execution, and a compliant statement of account - which I doubt):

 

Notwithstanding your choice of debt collection agencies, the facts remain that Argos remains in default of a formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, in that all the required documentation was not supplied. Whilst in default, no payment may be demanded, and yet the agents you have employed have continued to ignore their legal obligation - but then, they seem to have had plenty of practice. From the papers that were supplied, it is clear that the document your agent averred is the executed credit agreement does not contain the terms prescribed by s.61 of the CCA 1974, and is thus unenforceable by virtue of s.127(3).

Personally, I'd leave the illegibility bit out for the moment.

 

I mentioned the bit about s.36(A) for when you report the DCA to OFT/TS/FOS/Companies House. I think we've given Argos enough to think about for the moment.

[N.P]

Right,

 

Letter edited, a big thanks for that SP.

 

Just tried printing it out to post off tomorrow and my damn printer has bombed out, due to no ink. I`ve just ordered some, but it may take a couple of days to gets here. Blummin` typical.

 

Anyway, thanks again. I`ll let you know when I`ve posted it.

 

Ciao for now.

 

 

 

N.P

[alanalana]

Hello NP,

 

Hi AA,

 

Thanks for joining in on this one. Yes, you have seen my thread in the PPI Forums. I have a letter ready to fly tomorrow. I finally printed the thing out.

 

I`m confused now, you seem to have highlighted that this particular thread was for ME, and then also highlighted in Red certain Offences Of Harrassment and Civil Remedys.

 

Do you mean I may be acting illegaly or Argos, DCA`s are acting illegally? Yes they must follow the Law. Excuse the dimness but it`s getting late, and I`ve had a few lazy days off

 

Thanks again, it`s good to see their are people still willing to help out.

 

 

If you are being harassed then this is the law to quote to get them to lay off. Harassment is Against the law. (Posted earlier)

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

These are a couple of extracts

 

England and Wales

 

1 Prohibition of harassment

 

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows—

(a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

© that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

 

2 Offence of harassment

 

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(3) In section 24(2) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted—

“(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).”.

 

3 Civil remedy

 

(1) An actual or apprehended breach of section 1 may be the subject of a claim in civil proceedings by the person who is or may be the victim of the course of conduct in question.

(2) On such a claim, damages may be awarded for (among other things) any anxiety caused by the harassment and any financial loss resulting from the harassment.

 

This is purely advice to help you ensure you are remaining within the Legal boundaries of the Land. Remember it is against the Law to harass:shock:

 

aa

[N.P]

Evening everyone,

 

Right, my printer ink arrives this morning, so I have now printed the above letter, ready to fly tomorrow.

 

Keep watching this space !!!

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Right, we have an UPDATE!

 

While I have been waiting for my letter to be signed for, on the Royal Mail Track & Trace, a reply from Argos dropped through the door this morning.

 

First we have the cover letter. It seems BJ and ATI (weren`t these bought out by AMD? ) are the same bunch of knob jockeys.

 

Their BS goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next up we have another cpoy of the CCA, this is still a very rough copy and most of it, if not all, is not clear to read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finnaly, I have scanned one of the pages from their recent Terms & Conditions, which is dated March 2007. This card account was originally opened in 2001, so I`m not sure why they are trying to fob me off with a scan of their current T`s & C`s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The page is regarding their PPI. It mentions a Certificate Of Insurance, which I was never issued with and also goes into detail about what is covered and how to claim etc. None of this information was given at the time, so they must have updated their PPI info to cover themselves.

 

On that thought, shouldn`t you receive a Certificate Of Insurance with all insurance policies? You do with Car cover. I thought they are supposed to follow up your policy to make sure it is suitable for your needs, instead of just a of tick in the `Yes or No Box`.

 

Also, to the above, I have found this CashQuestions - Report calls for PPI crackdown It seems there`s an even bigger crack down on PPI. Not sure if I could use this towards a defence though, together with other links available on CAG.

 

So, in summary, my concerns are, still the CCA is a shady copy, their PPI appear`s to be mis-sold (possibly), and their Statements show the monthly Interest and Charges added together and shown as one amount, called `Other`. AND, Royal Mail are charging double the amount to post a letter to have it signed and Tracked, then don`t even get a signature. That must be a [problem] too...........

 

I would appreciate any feedback and help on where to go next with this.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

Best also to check the actual agreement too. I can't read the block of text down the left hand side to check everything,but it looks to me like an application from. Does it contain all the required pescribed terms?

Also pull them up on the T&C's being from a different year. If the T&C's are refered to in the signature document, then they have to be the actual ones that were current when the document was signed.

 

It's unsual for Argos to come up with anything, especially from 7 years ago. Mine is on it's 4th DCA now and not one of them, or Argos have produced anything at all.

[N.P]

Hi Fuzzy,

 

Thanks for that.

 

I can`t actually read the see to determine if the terms are there or not.

 

I scanned this one in at 300dpi and even the copy they sent me was seriously blurred, very dark and basically unreadable.

 

I think this account is now with it`s 5th DCA, and has also been with Bryan Clark Solicitors.

 

What do you think about the PPI thing I mentioned above?

 

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

Write and tell them that the copy they sent is illegible. If the terms of the agreement cannot be read, then it can make it unenforceable.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

[ScarletPimpernel]

So, Argos say:

 

We can confirm that JB Debt Recovery and ATI (Asset Trace & Investigation) are trading names of J B Ventures Ltd.

 

What they don't explain is the total absence of any mention of ATI under the ICO registration:

 

Data Controller: JB VENTURES LIMITED

Address:

176 BATH STREET

GLASGOW

G2 4HG

Other Names:

JB DEBT RECOVERY

 

Nor do they explain why the letter you had was from ATI Ltd., a limited company in its own right, which, as previously revealed, is dormant and has failed to file its accounts.

[N.P]

Write and tell them that the copy they sent is illegible. If the terms of the agreement cannot be read, then it can make it unenforceable.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

Hi Fuzzy,

 

Thanks for that. I was wondering what section of the Act I needed to remind them of was.

 

I`ve been trying to read it all and see if there`s any sections regarding giving them permission to hand over my information and data to third parties.

 

The only bit I can make out, which has taken me about 10 mins to decode fro mthe dodgy copy is that I have signed and gave them permission to hand over my data and information for marketing purposes only. There`s no mention about giving it to Debt Collection Agencies, or Solicitors, for that matter. Any comments on this?

 

 

 

 

So, Argos say:

 

What they don't explain is the total absence of any mention of ATI under the Information Commissioners Office registration:

 

Nor do they explain why the letter you had was from ATI Ltd., a limited company in its own right, which, as previously revealed, is dormant and has failed to file its accounts.

 

Hi SP,

 

Thanks for that, also.

 

Won`t that be under the Data Protection Register? They have quoted a Registration Reference of Z7075075.

 

Sorry to keep asking people, but can anyone help me with a strategically worded letter for these empty heads? I`m not up to scratch yet with this legal nonsense

 

Thanks again folks.

 

 

 

N.P

[ScarletPimpernel]

Won`t that be under the Data Protection Register? They have quoted a Registration Reference of Z7075075.

 

 

 

ATI is not shown under that registration number, or any other.

[N.P]

ATI is not shown under that registration number, or any other.

 

 

They are saying JBDR and ATI are part of the JB Ventures group.

 

Does each company name used under JB Ventures need to have it`s own registration number? I`m not sure how it works.

 

Ihad this nonsene with BLS who were under and part of Lloyds TSB. I was then passed to SC&M, then a bunch of goons called Debt Managers. How many of these companies does the world need?

[ScarletPimpernel]

JB Ventures are registered under the number given. However, they are supposed to also register all 'other names' that they use, and this is what they have not done.

 

There is no registration relating to ATI as a seperate company - which the letterhead they sent you shows it to be. If the company is a 'trading name' of another company, then they shouldn't be using the letterhead showing it to be a company in its own right.

[N.P]

JB Ventures are registered under the number given. However, they are supposed to also register all 'other names' that they use, and this is what they have not done.

 

There is no registration relating to ATI as a seperate company - which the letterhead they sent you shows it to be. If the company is a 'trading name' of another company, then they shouldn't be using the letterhead showing it to be a company in its own right.

 

 

Ok, thanks SP,

 

Now I`m with you

[lihi]

Hey NP

 

Looks like things are getting interesting for you now on Argos. My account has just been passed to Fredrickson and I've received a couple of letters and am just about to reply asking them to get lost.

 

Im going after Argos for mis-sold PPI and I'll be reclaiming 29.9% and 8% interest on top of the mis-sold PPI. They did the same to me as they did to you, never even asked if I wanted it just ticked the box and it was through my own ignorance that it took me 9 months to pick up they added it to the application form. Once Ive got that off the total and it reduces the grand total I'm then quite happy to pay the outstanding balance.

 

Lewisham Trading Standards and Kent Trading Standards have looked at my Argos agreement and have both referred to it as an application form, the interest is not stated and neither is the box for complaints and referring them to trading standards, therefore the agreement does not contain all the presribed terms and is unenforceable. I have forwarded all the bits to my new local trading standards as I've moved out of the area and shes going to pass it to Milton Keynes.

[fuzzybobble]

Hey NP

 

Looks like things are getting interesting for you now on Argos. My account has just been passed to Fredrickson and I've received a couple of letters and am just about to reply asking them to get lost.

 

 

A word of caution about Frederickson's. Bryan Carter their guy in a fancy dress solicitors costume has a habit of taking people to court for a part claim.

 

I'm just waiting for him to spring one on me at the moment. But it has been 7 weeks now since I last heard from them. But that may be because he's filed the court claim at a previous address so I can't defend it . (he has a habit of doing that too.)

 

If he takes that course with me, I'll drag his sorry carcass through the courts that fast he won't have chance to hide his cheque book before he has to pay me costs. And I will go for every penny I can possible claim.

[N.P]

Hi lihi and fuzzybobble,

 

Thanks for the posts.

 

Yep, things are definately warming up, although I`m not flapping just yet, LOL.

 

My account was with Fredrikson and Bryan Carter too, but that was quite a few months ago now.

 

I`ve read too that this Bryan (empty head) Carter, (you can quote me on that) likes to try and rip people of for costs. Not sure which costs though, so he must be desperate.

 

I had a cool letter from pt2537 which quickly dispatched that idiot, that was after I blanked Fredrikson

 

I also had some tosser called `Ben` on the phone from Fredrikson asking me for money. When he told me what his name was I just laughed and told him to F*&k O£F. How the hell can I take a Debt Collector with a name like Ben serious?

Edited November 19, 2008 by N.P
Naff spelling

[fuzzybobble]

Yep just like Emma from Capquest. She was really peed off with me for wasting some of her saturday bonus. Then a week later I get sent a link to her myspace profile. Then my fantasy about being dominated by her was shattered when I saw her drunken, ugly, chavvy photos.

 

Not to worry, tonight on Facebook I found the waitress from my local pub from 5 years ago who I used to work with and had a laugh with. She had a b/friend at the time, but now she's single again.

 

One happy fuzzybobble tonight.

[pigsic]

Hi

Last time mum heard from argos was from capquest and that was in June to say they where sorry they did not release the account was in dispute and that they handed it back to argos. And touch wood that was the last time we heard anything. Just reading ur threads made me think what if they have filed it to the courts would we ahve already heard something by now

\lisa

[N.P]

Hi Lisa,

 

Perhaps the letters we are sending them, are keeping them at arms length?

 

I`m sure mine has now been with 4 or 5 DCA`s and Bryan Clarks Solicitors. If they had a 100% rock solid case I`m sure they would have done something by now.

 

Lets just keep picking faults with their shabby agreements, that we can`t even read and remind them of their faults.

 

How long is it before you get something back once a claim has been issued to the Courts? Anyone?

 

 

N.P

[pecky1]

Hi NP

See your fight is still going strong, Glad to see trading standards agree yours is an application form as mine is the same as yours. I am on hold at the moment with Cabot I just refuse to speak to them. I to have charges on the account but waiting for the next move from Cabot.

Pecky1

[N.P]

Hi NP

See your fight is still going strong, Glad to see trading standards agree yours is an application form as mine is the same as yours. I am on hold at the moment with Cabot I just refuse to speak to them. I to have charges on the account but waiting for the next move from Cabot.

Pecky1

 

 

Hi Pecky,

 

Good to here from you again, but on the other hand I guess you`ve been quiet because you haven`t been chewed much, which is a good thing, I suppose.

 

Yeah, the fight, as you say still goes on. I think I might send Argos another something, just to let them know I`m not giving in and certainly not going to entertain any of the arse wipes they send chasing me

 

What do you think of that silly letter from AC&I?

 

Anyways, thanks again for the post. I`ll catch up with you again soon.

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Evening people,

 

Right, something interesting happened tonight, sort of.

 

I had a call from someone at ipsos mori research.

 

It went something like this -

 

 

 

Unknown number ring, ring, ring -

 

Me - What?

 

Lady - Can I speak to Mr N.P please?

 

Me - And you are?

 

Her - This is someone I never heard of, from ipsos mori research, can I ask you a few questions about your Argos Store Card?

 

Me - Not interested!

 

Her - But, I need to ...........

 

Me - P*$& Off!

 

Click!

 

 

 

Mmmmm, not sure if they have anything to do with this, but who know`s?

 

What the hell are they asking about that for? I they spying for them other commies at BJ?

 

 

 

N.P