natwesty mastercard/triton

[phill123]

hi i had a credit with natwest for just over to years however due to personal circumstance i wasn't able to meet the payment an went on a repayment plan. my card and my account was cancelled without 30 days notice by natrwest , while under repayment plan i made every month the payment agreed by both party . Natwest told me that under few occasion lost my paymnet and couldn't trace my payment ( Three paymnet ) so this accpount was passed to triton without my knowledge claiming that i owed tham 550 poundsmy answer was WTF ???? as on the smae mornin i was making my payment to natwest on the phone they took my detail i asked to confirmed the balance whgich was about 360 pounds on the same card .

 

so i asked triton two weeks ago FOr a CCA request , received a letter from them stating they acknowldge my letter but send back my cheque stating that i forgot to put the date on it which i did by accident so i sent it back again.; however they told me that this account was rolled back to natwest . so where i am standing there ? when i randg up natwest they told me to rang back triton , triton told me they dio noit have any recoird of this account ? really confusing . where should i send back the cheque for the pound s fee for the CCA request? i have no idea what to do next ?

 

triton keep telling me that they will sue me stating that i might lost my home, go bankrupt or even go to prison. iknow this is bullshxt. but i am reallky fed up with them messing me around ...

[Dispirited]

Hi, Natwest have just done that to me as well. I was on a repayment plan for 5 years, never missed one payment, then suddenly, from the murky depths, arose Moorcroft! I have CCA'd Moorcroft but await a reply. If Triton told you to go back to Natwest, I think I'd CCA them next.

[phill123]

hi dispirited this triton answer to my CCA request " in view of the nature of your request

[phill123]

hi dispirited this triton answer to my CCA request " in view of the nature of your request we have passed your letter to our client, Natwest Card Services who will contact you in due course.... " that was on the 6 July so don't know what do to next , any suggestion any one ? thank you

[clutchingatstraws]

Wait for the CCA if it arrives post it up.

[phill123]

hi everyone with all the [sot strike i managed to received my CCA however it is only a copy with no signature of mine and moreover they told me i " i have misconcepion about you entitlement for information " .... etc..... that i shoukld send a 1 pounds cheque which was retruened to me with no reason that there is no date on it even thougfh there was.

 

Anyway this waht they tell me the cop[y they send m,e has a big stsamp on it which only cover the clause of thje agreementy but not mentin of my signature (which is a bit gey ) there response " we are obliged to provide you with a true copy of thre credit agreement and a statement of financial information relating to the accountr, namely, the state of the account, amount currentlyb due,m, with amount and due dates of futures payments that still required to be made ( i thought my account was closed without 30 days notice) . In terms of CCA copy document regualtions, the "true" copy requirement can be sastified by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing that plus a copy of the current terms of the carde agreement". .

 

 

so i should to do next they are taking me gor ride for no reason thre ammount it wrong an di can prove it ? thank you for your help .

 

philipp

[phill123]

sorry but i forgiot to add my MY CCA request doesn't have my signature on the form only my name and my adress is speeled worngly . i asked them a statement of account they didn't give me any only the latest statement and told me that i wil have to pay for these .

[ashmk]

Im kinda lost in what your saying as your typing is not that great.

 

I think your saying that you recieved a copy of the CCA but one without your signature so therefore its not yours.

If thats the case then they have not complied with the CCA request and therefore will default.

 

Im confused as to what you say about a cheque. If they are requesting you send a cheque then I would NOT do that, they could be trying to trick you into supplying your signature so they can forge it onto a CCA.

 

Its my belief that it really does not matter what they do with the £1 fee, they can use it as toilet paper if they wish to do so but as long as you sent it in the first place you are covered.

 

on your next post please slow down a little because its really hard to understand what you are trying to say and is most likely the reason your not getting replys.

[phill123]

sorry asmk just getting really frustatred with them they kept going on with me to book a court day For next week if i don't pay in full what i owed which obviously i can't.

yes i asked a CCA a month ago to triton it only turned up recently they only send me . triton answer was that i wil receive it from natwest. in the meantime triton send me back my cheque stating that there is no date on the cheque. natwest send me my CCA request saying that i am under the misconception about CCA request tand they can only send a copy of term and condition plus my previous balance. However on the firstr page is my adress mispelled and no signature of me anywhere on the document.

 

so i gather i have to default triton and natwest ? or simply natwest? is there any template letter to default your DCA?

[gizmo111]

sorry asmk just getting really frustatred with them they kept going on with me to book a court day For next week if i don't pay in full what i owed which obviously i can't.

?

 

They are talking rubbish for it to get to court they have to issue a claim just like anyone else, they can't book a day!

If the ydo issue a claim then you have a complete defence as they can't supply the agreement.

 

so i gather i have to default triton and NatWest ? or simply NatWest? is there any template letter to default your DCA

 

You don't actually default them, just complain to the relevant bodies which are the FSA and Trading Standards in their area not yours.

[clutchingatstraws]

Phill

 

It sounds as though you are still speaking to these people over the phone.

 

You do not have to.

 

They may phone, just say everything in writing and put the phone down don't answer security questions.

 

We need to establish a couple of things.

 

Did you send your CCA request recorded delivery?

 

When did you send it and who too?

 

Can you post up the letter you sent?

 

Can you scan and post their reply as this will help you, Make sure you remove all personal details.

[phill123]

hi thank you for your answer

 

they keep sending me letter asking them to ring back urgently even though i asked them to stopit.

 

anyway i sent my CCA request by recorded delivery to triton and with the cheque, the cherque was returned as i forgot to put the date on it. the letter i sent was thi sone :

 

 

" i thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above reference.

Please be advised:

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

i require you to suplly the following documentation before i will correspond further on this matter.

1 you must suply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. this my right and your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consum,er Credit Act 1974(s.77(1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extend to providing a statement of account. I enclosed a 1£ pound chequye NO: XXXXXXX

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above refernced agreement that you allege exist should this debt be sold or assigned to your company.

3. Ypou are notified that you are obliged to supply these document, wether you aRE THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR OR NOT UNDER S189 OF THE cca 1974.

nON COMPLIANCE WITH MY REQUEST IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE UNDER THE ABOVE ACT AND WILLL RESULT IN A REPORT BEING SUBMITTED TO THE RELEVANT AUTHORITIES. .

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that i sissued.

take not at this staGE, THYAT ANY LEGAL ACTION YOU MAY CONTEMPLATE WILL BE BOTH VIOROUSLY DEFENDED AND CONTESTED.

WILL YOU PLEASE ALSO CONFIRM TO WHICH COMPNAY YOU ARE REPRESENTIN. tRITON cREDIT SERVICES lTS OR tRITON cREDIT SERVICES AS YOUR CORRESPONDANCE IS NOT CLEAR.

YOURS SINCERELY...."

 

 

this letter was end on the 5th July and natwest confirm that the company i am refering to is triton credit services which is a dormant one, i have not receive a deed of assignment and noe CCA proper ly executed no date and no signature? so i just odenm a default notice but i would like to know to whom i am sending it to natwest or triton or both of them ? sorry about my typo, having a bit of hangover this morning . i told them that no payment will be made until my request is comply with.

 

thank you for any suggestion

[phill123]

sorry this the answer i had from natwest to my CCA request to Triton ( triton passed on my account back to natwest don't know why? but now it is back with triton) . this letter is dated on the 1st august :

 

" Your request for documents contains some misconceptions about your entitlement to informaiton in a specified form an dour obligations to supply that information. So that there are no misunderstanding here we will set the record straight on the format of the information we are obliged to provide you ..... we are obliged to provide you with a true copy of the credit agreement and a statemwent of financial information relating to the account, namely the state of the account, amountr currently due, with amount and due dates of futures payment that still require to be made. In terms of CCA copy document regulations , the true copy requirement can be sastified by providing a copy agreement at the date the card of the agreement was made and providing that plus a copy of the current terms of the card agreement...."

 

I receive the term and condition with a big blue stamp "copy" at the top of the document, a CCA with my name and my adress mispelled with account number, credit limit .. but no signature of me or them , and no date to memtion when the account was opened.

 

so is my CCA request unenforceable as it does not contain my signature and the date of the opening of the account? is it a rpoperly executed CCA ? thank you for your help

[ashmk]

If your signature is not on the CCA then its has not been properly excuted.

 

 

I dont think it matters that your name and address are on it incorrect or otherwise. Anyone could make up a CCA form and type your details on it which is why it MUST have your signature on it.

 

Also if you ever have to do anything like this again, NEVER send a cheque because DCA's have been known to copy peoples signatures.

 

And as already mentioned stop talking on the phone to them, they will try and scare you with lies to get you to pay more. Just refuse to answer security questions and tell them to put it in writing.

[phill123]

thank you aSHMK for your help and i will send them the letter to stop them from harassing me . thank you will send my default notice to natwest and triton so both of them are aware of this . as i am pretty sure that when triton will receive this letter they will passed it on natwest. anyway thank you very much

[phill123]

hi again,

 

afterw i sent a letter bzack to natwest and triton staing that i have no misconception about my right. i receive today a letter from triton mentioning

 

" inview of nature of your query we have passed you rleter to our client , Natwest Card Services who will contact you in due course "

what does it meant? sorry bein g stupid here but since my request they kept doing it even at somepoint they have no idea where my account was. so this time i served them with th enotice under the data protection act to remove all my data they held adn to destroy it. what should i do next ?

[Docman]

I'd wait until Nat West come back to you and then see what they say. If they continue claiming,I would CCA Nat West themselves. Ignore the blurb about they only have to produce a copy to meet your CCA request. This only applies to agreements before 1985 , when regulations came into force AND the original agreemnt has been lost.

 

Personally, I think Nat West may back off. I doubt they have any credit agreement, let alone a valid one.

[phill123]

thank you doc man this reassure me a bit i hve other debt which are more of a priority than this. anyway i know they don't have a sign agreement with me as i don't remebered never signed anything with them concerning a credit card only for a loan aplication whihc was turned down anyway.

 

yhe major problem i have with them is that the mony i owed keep changing form tiome to time . three month ago i woed them about 300 pounds and in the spoace of one month it became 600 pounds ( even though i was making regular payment as agreed by their repayment plan)which when queried they told me this is the interest charged on this bank account.

 

i considering to ask for a SAR i already claimed some bank charge back where i was sucessful but since then natwest have been quite nasty with me ( sorry but for the language but i am fed up ) i seems to be paying but the debt never seem to get smaller . lol

[phill123]

hi , i need some advice here this the response to my previous letter to natwest

 

 

" it is not unlawfull for triton credit services to have information about you, as adviced in your defeualt notice issued to you on 216 january 2007 ( which i haven't received as thius accountwas in dispute due to uunlawfiull charege and in court so even more illegal i think) , failure to restore your account as required, " the bank may also assign your account to a debrt receovery or tak to court action to recoever the debt . your account was passed to triton credit sertvices on 16 June 2007. ( wwhy wait 6 month and triton is dormant company !!!!)

 

 

Any rquest for a copy of agreement under sectio 78(1) ..must mett is staturo requirement ( which they haven't dopne as it wasn't signed on the agreement, i only recdeived a term an d condition and a copy of my l;ast statement showing how much i owed ... they haven;'t provided mewith how much ot is owed how much i already p[aid and how much is left to pay and the date of repayment... )

 

 

the provison of the "true copy" in thi sformn i smade reliance of regulation 3(2) aND 7(1) (B) OF THE Consummer Credit ( cancellation and Copies of documents) Regulations 1983 ( don't know anything about it anyone has any idea .. ?) whihc permit afgreement no to show signatures otr personal detaisl tha rtmnay have appaered on the APPLICATION PART OF THE DOCUMENT/. there is nop stautory requirement under the Act for us to give a coipy to a customer with a signature on it ( maybe to me but to a court i they have to oanyway i asked a signerd true copy ..)

 

.... as we have supplied a copy of the credit agreement form that yopu signed ( no i din;t as i don't have such copy ), copy oif the terms and conditions of that cvard product and a most recent statement showing the balance.. we are therefore met the requirement under section 78(1)

 

after they mentioned that they have not contravened with the data protection act... )"

 

what i can i do now? truly if the agrrement is not signed well they can put any nameany adress and say that you owed the debt surely this is wrong ?

 

thank you for your help and sorry for the typo .

[phill123]

sorry i forgot to mention the end of th eletter which is a bit nasty from natwest

 

" i must therefore inform you that we seee no reason to enter into further correspondence with you about the alleged debt and DPA breach you lay at tour door. if you are not sastified with thi sfinal responses, you may seek whatever legal redress you consider i sopen to you or u ,you may refer your complain to financial ombudn=sman services wuthini six montrhs of the datge of the letter.

you r indebtness on this account remains due and payable and we will be pursuing fo rrhe full repayment. "

well it is allfine with them lol but i am stressing a bit there as they have no todme things by the book and moreover the amount i owed keep changing form month to month.

[phill123]

sorry it is me again after much research on the net i came up with this letter. i hiope thi swill be helpfull for me as i offer them 10 % as a full and final settlement

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxt August 2007, the contents of which are noted.

A copy of this letter was also sent recorded to Triton credit Services Limited, on the same day as this letter was sent recorded.

 

Thank you for confirming again that you have sent on the xx August 2007, “true copy” of the credit agreements that exist in relation to these accounts. As you have sent these documents in response to my requests under Section 77 (1) and 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, then these statements by you are now binding on you as per section 172 of the Act.

However , I also requested a deed of assignment from the Triton Credit Services which you are not yet provided. You are claiming that I received a default letter on the xxJanuary 2007, I can confirm to you that I did not receive such notice as this account was in dispute due to level of unlawful charges and interest applied on this account. If you did indeed, default me while the account was in dispute this a breach of the banking code in which you adhere. This mater was also referred to the Financial Ombudsman Services and this resulted in you refunded me partly these charges.

Section 172 states:

 

172 Statements by creditor or owner to be binding

 

(1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under—

 

section 77(1),

 

section 78(1),

 

section 79(1),

 

section 97(1),

 

section 107(1)©,

 

section 108(1)©, or

 

section 109(1)©.

 

This means that the documents you have sent are the only documents you may now rely on in any attempt at enforcing these alleged debts. Any further documentation you may present is irrelevant as you did not provide it in response to my lawful request.

 

I maintain that these alleged debts are completely unenforceable under Section 127 of the CCA 1974. The CCA 1974 is clear on what agreements must contain in order to be enforceable, even in court. For full details I refer you to the excellent guidance from the Office of Fair Trading.

 

For cancellable agreements, you can find the guidance at:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft018.pdf

 

For non-cancellable agreements, you can find the guidance at:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft019.pdf

 

For your further convenience, I also refer you to the guidance on Debt Collection here:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

 

At the very least, an agreement must contain the following within the signature document to be enforceable, even in court:

A credit limit or a statement as to how this will be determined.

An APR.

A schedule of repayments.

 

These are the prescribed terms as required by the Act and subsequent Regulations. There are also many other things, which are called required terms, that should be in an agreement. These include:

Details of default charges.

Statements of protection for customers.

 

Neither of the agreements you have sent me includes all of the information needed to make it enforceable ( merely no signature is present from me nor you on each document), and therefore they are completely unenforceable under Section 127 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as all document received by me are not signed by you and the debtor ( me ). For your information, you can find a copy of the CCA 1974 here:

 

http://www.johnantell.co.uk/CCA1974.htm

 

I am aware that Section 127 was repealed in the Consumer Credit Act 2006 but this is not retrospective and applies only to agreements signed after 6th April 2007. For information on this, you can see the 2006 Act here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2006/20060014.htm

 

I refer you particularly to the Transitional Provisions outlined in Schedule 3 which confirm that the repeal of Section 127 is NOT retrospective.

 

You deny that the documents you have sent me fail to comply with the CCA 1974. In that case, given the FACTS I have outlined above, perhaps you could direct me to all of the prescribed and required terms in the agreements you have sent me. I think you will find that they are not there.

 

Once you have confirmed for yourself that they are not there, perhaps you would be so kind as to point me in the direction of the relevant legislation that allows you to enforce an agreement that is clearly unenforceable under Section 127. Again, I think you will find that this legislation does not exist.

 

The case law in these matters is clear. The case of Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry makes it clear that if a creditor does not have the correct paperwork to comply with the CCA 1974, then they cannot expect to benefit from this. Under these circumstances, the creditor loses all rights within the agreement, including the right to money already given out. You can find the full judgement of this case here:

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd030710/will-1.htm

 

 

Moreover, I would like again to point out that in the absence of a signed and properly executed agreement you have no legal authority to enter a default with credit reference Agency, as you cannot enforce it even through the Court. which is a breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act.

 

Once again, I challenge you to give me an example of case law that supports your view that you may continue to seek to enforce an unenforceable agreement. At the risk of repeating myself, I think you will find that there is none.

 

In light of all of this information I have given you, I do not see how you can possibly maintain that these agreements are enforceable. Should you wish to try and construct a case (that has a basis in law) then I would be most interested to read it.

The Office of Fair trading point out in their business leaflet that “The court cannot order enforcement where an agreement – even one in the proper form –

was not signed by the customer”. I will remind you that under the guidelines laid down by the Office of fair Trading for debt collection Guidelines of July 1983 that if you intend to pursue me in court without a properly and signed true copy of this agreement then it is a complete defence as the debt is not enforceable( under the CCA 1974) and a judge cannot enforce this agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 .

If you cannot construct such a case, I expect you to confirm (within 12 days) that all collections activity on these accounts will cease.

 

In the light of such fact I understand that you have not a signed and properly executed agreement and that you have committed an offence under the CCA 1974 under section 77 (4).

 

I await your response with interest.

 

It is my understanding that you have failed to comply with my request as such agreement does not exist and by so redeem this debt unenforceable.

However, I want to offer you , about 10 % of the sum to you alleged that I owed ( which is £ xxxxx.00 , or xxxxxxxxxxxxxx pounds Sterlings) as an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released for any liability.

 

We also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full.

So I enclose an xxxxx cheque for the sum of £xxxxxx.xx ( xxxxxxx pounds Sterling and xxxxx pence) , dated on the xx/xx/xxxxwith a serial number xxxxxxx. By accepting this cheque you agree to this offer of full and final settlement and will consider the matter closed. "

 

i don't want to escape my responsability when you are told that you have no right because you owed money, or you are a foreigner, or to get insulktyed by phone by some stranger or you so ill that you can't even to respond to them .. i am getting os fed up with them. then where you drtaw the line thank you for any comment on this letter ?