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    • Is all of this actually on the signage? Don't remember seeing that much detail on other threads.
    • If I have learnt one thing from this forum, it's not to call and communicate via email. I passed this info on to her and they are pushing for her to call them.    "Unfortunately, you will need to call us. The conversation won’t be so black and white as to therefore type over email. In a nutshell we can confirm that the request to not pay for 3 months we cannot put in place"  I emailed them back on her behalf and said that what ever is discussed over the phone will need to be put in an email so that she can review it properly. No decisions will be made on that phone call.    "Once we speak to you on the phone we will follow up with an email to confirm the options discussed. [Phone number]"   Why are they pushing for a phone call? If its not so black and white, why can they then follow up with an email?  
    • Appreciate input Andy, updated: IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;     I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim.   1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. The Defendant has not entered any contract with the Claimant. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 21/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Claimant has been unjustly enriched at the expense of the Defendant by purchasing bulk debt at a greatly reduced cost and subrogating for the original creditor in trying to recuperate the full amount of the original debt 12. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
    • Morning,  I am hoping someone can help, I am posting on behalf of my friend so I will try and provide as much info as possible.  Due health reasons, she is currently not working and unable to pay her contractual car finance payments. She emailed 247 Money and asked for a 3 month payment holiday, they refused this straight away with no reasons as to why. They have told her that instead she can make a payment of £200. She is currently getting £400+ a month ssp so this is not acceptable. She went back to them and explained she cannot make this payment and they have not offered an alternative plan. Its £200 or she falls into default.  She is now panicking as she does not want her car to be taken away. What options does she have?  Thank you, 
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Clarification help needed on cca defaulting please


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Searching through lots of stickies and threads, I'm still unclear as to the difference between the 12+2 working days default deadline and the 30 day calendar date criminal offence timeline. I understand the legal differences but what does it mean to the debtor?

Some posts on here state that after the 12+2 period has passed, the debt is unenforceable by law. But is that correct?

Also, do postal strikes affect the 12+2 period? (once the cca request has been received)

Thanks for any clarification .....

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Intresting question. From what I gather and im no expert is after the 12+2 days they have to goto court to be able to reenfoece the debt. After the 30 days you can report them to the powers that be to drop them in the poo-poo.

 

Im subscribing tom this post as im intrested in the correct answer to.

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It's always best to send by rec/del so you have a delivery date and the 12+2 timescale doesn't come in to it.

 

Beginning the day after delivery, "they" have 12 working days to supply, after that the request is in default and cannot be enforced by anyone. After a calendar month in default a summary Criminal Offence is committed which must be reported to Trading Standards within 6 months. A calendar month is calculated using 30 normal days unless the last day falls upon a Sunday or Bank Holiday in which case it's 31 days.

 

Any clearer now? ;)

 

Regards, Dave.

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Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

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Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

Enforceable again.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

Would have to be enforced by the Court, but if the CCA was ok it probably would be.

 

Forget this +2 thing too, send by rec/del and the clock starts ticking the day after delivery and there is proof that it was delivered.

 

Regards, Dave.

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OK i think i got it so for example you have a debt with abc123 collections. You are paying them and you CCA them. You carry on paying upto the 12th day then you can stop payments untill a CCA turns up on your door.

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It's always best to send by rec/del so you have a delivery date and the 12+2 timescale doesn't come in to it.

 

Beginning the day after delivery, "they" have 12 working days to supply, after that the request is in default and cannot be enforced by anyone. After a calendar month in default a summary Criminal Offence is committed which must be reported to Trading Standards within 6 months. A calendar month is calculated using 30 normal days unless the last day falls upon a Sunday or Bank Holiday in which case it's 31 days.

 

Any clearer now? ;)

 

Regards, Dave.

Sort of, thanks, Dave.

It's probably best if I give specific dates here.

I sent a CCA request, recorded delivery, which was signed for on Saturday 30 June. By my calculations the 12+2 is up today, Thursday 19th July. Am I right?

Or do they get an extra day's grace because there was a one day postal strike in the middle of this period?

(And it's good to see you back on the site :) )

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Sorry to jump in your thread risibilis, if i may i have a question for DMS.

 

What happens if the CCA turns up 1 week after the 12 days have finished.

and

What happens if it turns up 1 week after the 12+2+30 days. or anytime after the timespans.

I don't mind you jumping in at all, Ashmk. In fact you worded the question better than me!

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At the risk of sounding like a pedant - or just stupid - if the cca is enforceable if it's flourished by the creditor after the default deadline, then what's the point of the 12 day deadline?

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Sort of, thanks, Dave.

It's probably best if I give specific dates here.

I sent a CCA request, recorded delivery, which was signed for on Saturday 30 June. By my calculations the 12+2 is up today, Thursday 19th July. Am I right?

Or do they get an extra day's grace because there was a one day postal strike in the middle of this period?

(And it's good to see you back on the site :) )

 

Default - 18 July

Offence - 17 August

 

Forget this +2 thing if you have a delivery date!

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At the risk of sounding like a pedant - or just stupid - if the cca is enforceable if it's flourished by the creditor after the default deadline, then what's the point of the 12 day deadline?

 

The CCA is unenforceable whilst in default. That's just the way the law is written, which is in our favour..

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The CCA is unenforceable whilst in default. That's just the way the law is written, which is in our favour..

Okay, thanks Dave, got it!

So, the really important date is the 30 calendar days one? When the debt becomes unenforceable in law.

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Just to add something to all this.

Once the CCA passes the 12 + Month and the "creditor"/DCA sends letters damanding payment or aking threats then it is time to get Trading Standards involved as this "debt" hasn't been legally proved to exist.

This is the main reason whay it is extremely important to log and document all of your dealings with DCA's.

 

As Dave mentioned without a compliant credit agreement then enforcement or any action is NOT possible. Ths is a FULL defence in law, no matter what the DCA says otherwise.

NO agreement = NO contract = NO debt.

 

Ok over simplified as the debt still exists, but is unenforceable, even in court.

There is a good precdent case that covers non-compliant credit agreements: House of Lords - Wilson and others v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Appellant)

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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