Ebay item sold buyer wants refund help!!!!

[rachaelc]

Hi All,

Dunno if i have posted this in the right place but ill give it atry anyway!!

My partner has sold his car privately on ebay on 30th April 2006

On the listing he stated what problems there was with the car and ehat has been done to the car since he has had it.

When the seller can to look at the car he brought his friend (who he siad was a mechanic) they looked at the car and found 2 additional things that we wrong with the car, so my partner took some more money off the selling price.

My partner gave him the reciepts for all the the work that had been done and also all the required document.

The buyer has now sent a letter (6 weeks after purchasing the car) stating that he has sought legal advice and will be entering the case into small claims court to obtain a refund for the car and the costs of the repairs he has had to pay for. However, as far as my parnter is concerned, he has done everything correct, we understand that the only obilgation that the seller has is to list the item truthfully, which is what he has done, and it is up to the buyer to check that the car matches the description.

One of the items that he has listed that he has had to replace is the drive shaft, which we ourselves replaced in December 2005 (and provided the receipts to the buyer)

He also stated that the oil in one specific part has dryed up so he has had to replace something in it and is wanting to charge us for it.

Can any one please advise on this?

[Don Quioxte]

Well I hope someone who is more knowledgable than I on general consumer issues will be along soon to help... I am just going to get my otherhalf to come along and post to see if she can help - she is a bit of an Ebay whizz..

 

questions:

 

1. did you retain copies of the receipts you passed to the buyer (please say yes - or that you can obtain duplicates from the original vendor that carried out the repairs on your behalf).

 

2. what correspondance has the buyer had withyou prior to filing this claim with the court?

 

 

I would not worry too much - I cannot in my lay experience, see this has legs at all. I just hope the buyer is not harrassing you and your partner unduly?

[overcharged_consumer]

What car was it and how much did it sell for?

 

Do you have a link to the comleted listing (or the item number)?

 

OC

[mahala]

it does seem a little previous for them to be threatening legal action without having contacted you first.

 

In any case though, when you buy a second hand car it is generally up to you as the buyer to ensure that the car is in an acceptable condition, unless it has been grossly misdescribed or somesuch. If they brought a mechanic with them and you knocked money off for additional problems found, I can't see they've got a leg to stand on.

 

As far as Ebay goes, they certainly haven't. Ebay car sales are not final and binding in that once you win an auction, it is not a binding contract because obviously you could get to the car and it could be a complete wreck. But that only covers the buyer up until they actually go ahead with the purchase. Ebay just protects them so that if they win an auctiona nd the car is crap they are not required to follow through and pay,

 

The buyer was obviously satisfied when they looked around it, so that satisfies the ebay side of things.

[pmhread]

Sounds like they have a nice little [problem] going there. Buy a car, threaten legal action, get a refund and I presume they also want to keep the car?

 

Report em to ebay for a start and send something back saying see you in court...

[Don Quioxte]

Sounds like they have a nice little [problem] going there. Buy a car, threaten legal action, get a refund and I presume they also want to keep the car..

 

That was my initial gut feeling. But I have no Ebay experience. sounds like a right [problem]. Bid for the car. Bring along a mechanic mate. Get more money knocked off. Drive off with receipts of work done to prove condition. Carry out additional work that you desire (rather than at best request returning the vehicle to the vendor) - then have the cheek to claim for that work?!? You can't do that?!? - you don't buy a hot dog from a street vendor, eat some of it, go and buy a ciabatta bread from Waitrose to put the sausage in, return to the hot dog seller and demand that he pays for the ciabatta. (dunno where that analogy came from?!?)

 

anyway legally speaking I cannot see that you are in any way liable - you have broken no law, nor are in breach of any relevant consumer legislation or sales of goods acts that I can think of. In fact I might be tempted to pop a letter back saying that you intend to defend any litigation in full, claim for your costs, and request that the court considers entering the claimant onto the Vexatious Litigants register.

 

That'll put a new drive-shaft right where it belongs.

[MondeoST24]

I agree, there is nothing to worry about here. I would do nothing until a claim form arrives, if it does which is unlikely then post the particulars on here.

 

If it doesn't and they continue to harrass you, inform the police.

[Overdrawn]

I am just going to get my otherhalf to come along and post to see if she can help - she is a bit of an Ebay whizz..

 

Glad to see that DQ offered my humble assistance to you on this one, but as he promised I'm here...

 

It's true to say that I do have a knowledge of ebay but have never ventured into the realms of car sales and I believe that there are different rules to cover such sales, as mahala has pointed out in her post.

 

Just to cover another angle, am I correct in thinking that this was a cash sale?

 

I would go with what all the others have posted, it was sold as seen...the buyer came and checked it out and was satisfied, end of.

 

In fact I might be tempted to pop a letter back saying that you intend to defend any litigation in full, claim for your costs, and request that the court considers entering the claimant onto the Vexatious Litigants register.

 

That'll put a new drive-shaft right where it belongs

 

I would also give some serious thought to a DQ style letter...

 

You may find some useful info here:

 

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/callist.cgi

 

There is a dedicated motor vehicles section.

 

Please let us know how you get on with it...

[alanfromderby]

Just one concern - I am assuming that this was paid by cash or cheque, and not Paypal. If it was then you would have a problem.

 

The other question, did the buyer leave feedback. If positive feedback was left I would class that as almost as good as a signature of acceptance.

[rachaelc]

Just one concern - I am assuming that this was paid by cash or cheque, and not Paypal. If it was then you would have a problem.

 

The other question, did the buyer leave feedback. If positive feedback was left I would class that as almost as good as a signature of acceptance.

 

The car was paid for with cash when he came and looked and it and drove off in it!!

 

The buyer left feedback about a week or so after - and it was positive feedback!!

[pmhread]

That was my initial gut feeling. But I have no Ebay experience. sounds like a right [problem]. Bid for the car. Bring along a mechanic mate. Get more money knocked off. Drive off with receipts of work done to prove condition. Carry out additional work that you desire (rather than at best request returning the vehicle to the vendor) - then have the cheek to claim for that work?!? You can't do that?!? - you don't buy a hot dog from a street vendor, eat some of it, go and buy a ciabatta bread from Waitrose to put the sausage in, return to the hot dog seller and demand that he pays for the ciabatta. (dunno where that analogy came from?!?)

 

anyway legally speaking I cannot see that you are in any way liable - you have broken no law, nor are in breach of any relevant consumer legislation or sales of goods acts that I can think of. In fact I might be tempted to pop a letter back saying that you intend to defend any litigation in full, claim for your costs, and request that the court considers entering the claimant onto the Vexatious Litigants register.

 

That'll put a new drive-shaft right where it belongs.

 

Hot Dog on a Ciabatta?? What is the world coming to....

[alanfromderby]

The buyer left feedback about a week or so after - and it was positive feedback!!

 

That would seem to be a very useful piece of evidence to wave under his nose. I would get a screen print to include with your defence.

[rachaelc]

What car was it and how much did it sell for?

 

Do you have a link to the comleted listing (or the item number)?

 

OC

 

It was an X Reg Vectra, will find listing for you and ill post link when i can figure out how!!!

 

Think it sold on ebay for £1690 but partner accepted £1600 as the mechanic 'found' things that needed to be done

[rachaelc]

1. did you retain copies of the receipts you passed to the buyer (please say yes - or that you can obtain duplicates from the original vendor that carried out the repairs on your behalf).

 

We can obtain duplicates, original receipts were given to the buyer

 

2. what correspondance has the buyer had withyou prior to filing this claim with the court?

 

This is the 1st we have heard from the buyer, a letter listing what 'repairs' we have to pay for and asking for a refund.

 

Could we also wave under his nose the fact that he has not contacted us before now to inform of these repairs? Instead, he has just done the repairs and is now attempting to claim the money?

[alanfromderby]

Really six weeks down the line I don't think he would stand a chance in court anyway, and he would have to pay £150 to make a claim in the first place.

 

I think he is trying it on in the hope that you will back down - if he sought advice, as he claims, then it was probably from a mate down the pub...it certainly isn't from anybody with any legal knowledge as they would know that complaining about a second hand car six weeks after purchase is a complete waste of time.

[dolly]

Personally, I wouldn't let it bother you overly, which I know is easier said than done.

 

You are not a car trader. He bought a second hand car, in a private sale, with a 'mechanic' present, paid for it and drove away. As far as I am aware, that is the end of the matter. What happens after that is of no concern to you. He is trying it on BIG style and I doubt very, very much that he will take you to the small claims court.

 

Let us have the user ID it was sold under and we'll suss him out

[chrismc]

The car was paid for with cash when he came and looked and it and drove off in it!!

 

The buyer left feedback about a week or so after - and it was positive feedback!!

Did you give him a receipt for his cash? did you write anything on the receipt, eg 'bought as seen'

 

Positive feedback on a public forum would in my view be as good as a 'letter of satisfaction' if it went to court. They had 7 days to decide if it was up to scratch or not, you don't even get that long at car auctions.

 

Second hand cars sold privately I would assume come under the term 'Caveat Emptor' Buyer beware!! 'The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying'

 

therefore no recourse for future action unless the goods were not fit for purpose, or they were purposely described to be much better than in fact they reallly were with the intent of defrauding the buyer!

 

Tell them to take a hike!! they are trying it on!! and if in the unlikely event they do follow through with a claim, do as DQ says mention reporting them to the courts to be entered on the Vexatious Litigants Register

 

Chris

[lisamellor]

this is utter bull. BUT its happening all around. trying to get their money back whilst keeping the car. if they had legal advice surely they would have contacted you without the threat of legal action. people usually use legal action as a threat (sometimes when they havent even had legal adivice to scare people). my fella is a mechanic and he buys cars and sells them. it is known in private sales for this to happen. (do you remeber it happened in coronation street a while ago, but the mechanic recognised him). do report him to ebay though.

 

dont worry i very much doubt anything will happen. and i would not even reply to his stupid letter.

 

good luck lisaxx

[dw190]

It was an X Reg Vectra, will find listing for you and ill post link when i can figure out how!!!

 

Just post the item number

[rbrears]

If you buy a used car without a warranty the old adage applies - caveat emptor - buyer beware. As long as you have not told him something about the car that is untrue and which induced him to buy it he hasn't got a leg to stand on.

 

The vehicle was examined by his "mechanic", he was given a list of faults that you were aware of, and agreed a price. He bought the car "as seen" and he won't win his claim IMO.

 

Doesn't mean he won't claim though and you might have to go through the drag of defending it. But don't budge - it was his responsibility to check the car and he did - that's that

 

Just a suggestion - if you sell another car get the buyer to sign a piece of paper that says, for example:

 

Date: XXXXX

 

Buyer: [name]

 

£xxxxx paid to Mr [name] for vehicle Reg no XXXXXXX. Vehicle bought as seen and inspected and no warranty given.

 

Signed......................

(Buyer)

[overcharged_consumer]

It was an X Reg Vectra, will find listing for you and ill post link when i can figure out how!!!

 

Think it sold on ebay for £1690 but partner accepted £1600 as the mechanic 'found' things that needed to be done

 

In a trade / retail environment the buyer would have much more protection. However, this was a private sale and as such, the buyer has very little protection indeed.

 

If the vehicle was listed honestly, which from what you say sounds like it was, and the buyer inspected it and agreed to buy it, they have effectively accepted all the faults on it - especially as they inspected it and negotiated a reduction in the price based upon further faults which they allegedly found.

 

If this was a retail sale, the goods sold must be fit for use for a reasonable amount of time after sale (the same probably applies to private sales too although if it's properly described then this should be covered). However, there are a number of factors to take into account when determining this which include age and price. Whilst £1,600 is a lot of money, it isn't a huge sum of money for such a car and as such, you could probably argue that the price reflected the condition of the vehicle. Further, it is a six year old car and as such, no buyer can expect a six year old car to be completely fault free and must take the rough with the smooth (the faults with the low purchase price).

 

As others have mentioned, by leaving positive feedback they have effectively confirmed they are happy with the vehicle and the matter is closed.

 

If they had issues with the vehicle then they should have contacted you BEFORE effecting repairs done and allowed you the opportunity to arrange for repairs yourself (not that you would have been liable anyway) or to allow you to take the vehicle back and offer a full refund.

 

As a gesture of goodwill you could possibly offer a refund and take the vehicle back but state that you would not be willing to pay for the repairs as they should have contacted you before authorising such repairs. However, I would say that you are under no obligation to do this and therefore would not recommend it.

 

I don't think they have a leg to stand on and think that you could defend this quite easily if it does come to court.

 

Finally, just to really wind them up, you could respond suggesting that they persue their mechanic friend in this matter because, as far as you're concerned, they inspected the vehicle and should have spotted these faults (which you were not aware of and therefore hadn't disclosed) at the time of inspection BEFORE the vehicle was purchased.

 

Keep us updated.

 

Good luck

 

OC.

[chrismc]

In a trade / retail environment the buyer would have much more protection. However, this was a private sale and as such, the buyer has very little protection indeed.

 

If the vehicle was listed honestly, which from what you say sounds like it was, and the buyer inspected it and agreed to buy it, they have effectively accepted all the faults on it - especially as they inspected it and negotiated a reduction in the price based upon further faults which they allegedly found.

 

If this was a retail sale, the goods sold must be fit for use for a reasonable amount of time after sale (the same probably applies to private sales too although if it's properly described then this should be covered). However, there are a number of factors to take into account when determining this which include age and price. Whilst £1,600 is a lot of money, it isn't a huge sum of money for such a car and as such, you could probably argue that the price reflected the condition of the vehicle. Further, it is a six year old car and as such, no buyer can expect a six year old car to be completely fault free and must take the rough with the smooth (the faults with the low purchase price).

 

As others have mentioned, by leaving positive feedback they have effectively confirmed they are happy with the vehicle and the matter is closed.

 

If they had issues with the vehicle then they should have contacted you BEFORE effecting repairs done and allowed you the opportunity to arrange for repairs yourself (not that you would have been liable anyway) or to allow you to take the vehicle back and offer a full refund.

 

As a gesture of goodwill you could possibly offer a refund and take the vehicle back but state that you would not be willing to pay for the repairs as they should have contacted you before authorising such repairs. However, I would say that you are under no obligation to do this and therefore would not recommend it.

 

I don't think they have a leg to stand on and think that you could defend this quite easily if it does come to court.

 

Finally, just to really wind them up, you could respond suggesting that they persue their mechanic friend in this matter because, as far as you're concerned, they inspected the vehicle and should have spotted these faults (which you were not aware of and therefore hadn't disclosed) at the time of inspection BEFORE the vehicle was purchased.

 

Keep us updated.

 

Good luck

 

OC.

 

More or less what I said

Did you give him a receipt for his cash? did you write anything on the receipt, eg 'bought as seen'

 

Positive feedback on a public forum would in my view be as good as a 'letter of satisfaction' if it went to court. They had 7 days to decide if it was up to scratch or not, you don't even get that long at car auctions.

 

Second hand cars sold privately I would assume come under the term 'Caveat Emptor' Buyer beware!! 'The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying'

 

therefore no recourse for future action unless the goods were not fit for purpose, or they were purposely described to be much better than in fact they reallly were with the intent of defrauding the buyer!

 

Tell them to take a hike!! they are trying it on!! and if in the unlikely event they do follow through with a claim, do as DQ says mention reporting them to the courts to be entered on the Vexatious Litigants Register

 

You could have a lot of fun with this if you were so inclined!! and really have them on!

[Guest Alison82]

You should make them pay you back the pay you would have missed out from your for having to go to court!

[rachaelc]

Im going to sound really stupid here but wat is 'Vexatious Litigants Register'

 

Thank you all for your fantastic advice so far, we are currently compiling a letter to send back to him high lighting our points and have also spoke to the person who had done any repairs on the car when my partner owned it and he is also writing a letter/report of his opionion of the car. Ill keep you all posted!!

[chrismc]

Im going to sound really stupid here but wat is 'Vexatious Litigants Register'

!

A vexatious litigant is a person who has been forbidden by a High Court Judge to issue proceedings in any County Court in England and Wales without permission.

 

You can get a list from HMCS Her Majesty's Court Service.

 

Chris