saddler10 v DLC/egg

[saddler10]

Try again!

 

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd232/saddler10/arc121207.jpg

[saddler10]

Hi all, have now received a letter from Trevor Munn Solicitors on the instructions of ARC on behalf of Egg. Have written back informing them that the debt is unenforcable. I have also now complained to my local Trading Standards. Also had a call from an unrecognized number today which i did not answer, but on investigating, it appears to be an ARC number. Any comments/advice gratefully received.

 

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd232/saddler10/munn.jpg

[Hopeful1]

I had a few letters from Trevor Munn, but whenever i wrote to inform them the account was in dispute for whatever reason they backed off.

[saddler10]

Hi Hopeful, thanks for the response. that is exactly what happened with DLC's solicitors, will see if the same thing happens now.

 

Thanks again for the response.

[saddler10]

Hi, latest on this, a letter from Trevor Munn arrived today stating that a County Court Claim is being prepared for issue in Northampton County Court. They appear to be ignoring my recent letter stating that this debt is unenforcable. Hopeful, did Trevor Munn solicitors get this far with you?

 

thanks, Saddler10

[Docman]

I think the admission that they don't have a copy of the agreement just stuffs them up completely. Their response is a variation on the RBS/Tesco answer which we posted on a couple of months ago, i.e. we haven't got a signed agreement but we will send you a copy of the current terms in the hope that it complies with the Copy Document Regulations 1983. That may avoid a local TS prosecuting for demanding money after therir 30 days are up but it does nothing if the creditor takes you to court.

If Trevor Munn does issue proceedings, then you will of course insist on them producing a true copy of the executed agreement. They won't be able to do so and you should win hands down. Problem of course is all the hassle of having to defend their claim.

Personally, I would write back to Trevor Munn and inform them that as egg have already admitted they don't have an agreement, egg will be unable to succeed. Inform Trevor Munn that not only will you immediately ask the Court for egg's claim to be struck out, but that you will ask the court for a Civil Restraint Order under CPR 3.11 since egg, in bringing an action they know cannot succeed in because they do not have an agreement, will be acting as a vexatious litigant. Further, if Trevor Munn acts for their client knowing their clients claim cannot succeed and that egg will be acting as a vexatious litigant, you will make a formal complaint to the Legal Complaints Service about Trevor Munn’s conduct.

[Hopeful1]

Hi Saddler. As Docman has said you need to write to the solicitors again. Have you sent them a copy of the letter Arc sent you re no agreement? I would also make a complaint to Trading Standards. If you do choose to make a complaint you can inform Trev Munn of this too.

[saddler10]

Thanks Hopeful and Docman. I have already written to Trading Standards (not heard back from them yet) and informed Munn of this in my last letter. I will now get another letter sent to them and will include a copy of the ARC letter.

[saddler10]

Hi all, not been around for a while and thought this one had gone away, having not heard anything since January. Today I received a letter from Cabot informing me that this account has been bought by them from Egg.

Would like some advice on my next step, do I CCA Cabot on this, or just inform them that the account is in dispute.

Also, where do I stand as far as Egg are concerned, have they committed an offence by selling my information without a Credit Agreement?

 

Thanks, Saddler10

[postggj]

jere is hoping for you

 

all ime going to say is

 

welcome to the dca merry go round

[twofoot]

Tell crapbot that it's in dispute and tell them why. Tell them the alleged debt is totally unsunstantiated. No need for another CCA. Like it's been said welcome to the DCA merry-go-round

[saddler10]

Thanks for the replies. Should I be making any complaints at the moment, and if so, who to? Also, with regard to my question about Egg, am I right in thinking they have committed an offence under the Data Protection Act, in selling my details when they have admitted they cannot supply a credit agreement?

 

cheers again, Saddler10

[saddler10]

Hi, after another big gap (this has been ongoing for 2 years now!), I have another letter from Cabot. They have sent what they claim to be a copy of my original agreement. Having seen similar 'agreements' posted by others, I don't believe it is enforcable. Interestingly on the left hand side of the letter, under the heading Notes, it says 'With this letter we have enclosed: Application Form'

It also states Application Form at the bottom of the 'agreement'

Am I right in thinking an application form is not a credit agreement?

 

any advice appreciated, Saddler10

 

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd232/saddler10/05-07-2009154631.jpg

 

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd232/saddler10/05-07-2009160017.jpg

[Honeypot]

Hi Saddler10

 

I am starting on the long road with Egg/DLC and wondered if you may have a copy of the letter you sent Egg regarding reclaiming penalty charges (your post number 14) as I am about to do the same?

 

Regards

 

 

Vicky

xxxx

[saddler10]

Hi Honeypot, will post if I can locate it, however I think it may have been saved on my old computer in which case it is now lost forever!

 

Saddler10

[saddler10]

Hi, anyone got any thoughts on the 'agreement' that Cabot sent me? (see post 38). Don't think it's enforcable, am I right?

 

thanks, Saddler10

[saddler10]

bump, any help would be appreciated.

 

Saddler10

[gh2008]

Hi, anyone got any thoughts on the 'agreement' that Cabot sent me? (see post 38). Don't think it's enforcable, am I right?

 

thanks, Saddler10

 

Why don't you think it's enforceable?

 

There is a lot of info re. the Egg Credit Card agreements -

 

I think it's safest to say that they haven't been proven to be enforceable yet.

 

gh

[saddler10]

Thanks for the reply gh, much appreciated. I have spent some time reading this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html and much of what is said seems to apply to my agreement, particularly the use of the term 'approved credit' and also the agreement fails to state the rate of interest for cash withdrawals. From my understanding, the agreement states an APR, which is insufficient?

 

thanks again, Saddler10

[saddler10]

Hi all, just to add, on inspecting my correspondence from Cabot, they appear to have added about £170 to the original balance since purchasing the debt from Egg, despite the debt being disputed.

[gh2008]

Thanks for the reply gh, much appreciated. I have spent some time reading this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html and much of what is said seems to apply to my agreement, particularly the use of the term 'approved credit' and also the agreement fails to state the rate of interest for cash withdrawals. From my understanding, the agreement states an APR, which is insufficient?

 

thanks again, Saddler10

 

That's certainly the thread to read

So yes, for all the points you've raised the agreements may be unenforceable.

 

re. APR, I've been away from here for a while, but I know that there were a few of us discussing APR vs Interest and the considered opinion was that APR is not good enough to qualify as an interest rate BUT you'd be *very* had pushed to win on that point alone.

 

gh

[saddler10]

Thanks again for the relpy gh, just needed someone to confirm my thoughts, will get a letter off to Cabot!

 

Saddler10

[saddler10]

Hi gh, have comtinued to read the thread by pt2537 last night and this morning. I have got as far as page 40 but now must get ready for work! Although I am still no expert, it is good to see that pt won his case, that gives me hope. I will try and read the rest when I return from work tonight, then I really should get my letter sent off to Cabot.

 

Saddler10

[saddler10]

Hi all, below is my letter to Cabot. I have also posted their reply below. As expected, they are completely ignoring my dispute, continuing to ask for payment and add interest.

Would appreciate a bit of advise on my next move, should I be making a complaint now and to whom?

 

Many thanks, Saddler10

 

 

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

PO Box No.241

West Malling,

Kent

ME19 4NA

 

 

 

Ref Egg Card

 

Please note I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Thank you for your letter of dd/mm/yy and the document enclosed.

Unfortunately, the document you enclosed does not comply with the Consumer Credit

Act 1974 Section 60 (2) and Consumer Credit (Agreements)

Regulations 1983 schedule 1 in that not all the 'prescribed' terms are present.

 

1. The terms 'Limit' 'Approved Limit' and 'Individual Limit' are not prescribed

terms, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 schedule 1 para

8 as the meaning of such terms cannot be exactly ascertained by the debtor.

 

2. The document does not state a rate of interest for cash withdrawals. The document

only states an APR, this is not sufficient and therefore another presribed term is

missing.

 

3. Paragraph 22 of schedule 1 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations requires that

the agreement details the default charges payable and this document does not.

 

I also note that since purchasing this alleged debt, you have increased the debt by

approximately £xxx. I am sure you are aware, that while a debt is disputed, you may

not add further charges or interest to the account. In addition to this, I also

remind you that you;

 

-are not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement -may not

demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you

-may not pass the account to a third party

-may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit

reference agency

-may not issue a default notice related to the account

 

This alleged debt remains IN DISPUTE. According to OFT debt collection guidance July

2003 (updated December 2006) section 2.6

(Phsyical/Psychological harassment) states that it is an unfair business practice to

ignore or disregard claims that debts have been settled or are DISPUTED and continue

to make unjustified demands for payment. The lack of a properly executed credit

agreement is a clear dispute.

Please note, you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under section 10

of the Data Protection Act (1998) to cease processing, with immediate effect, any

data in relation to this account, both within your own internal records and records

with any third party agencies, that may cause substantial damage or substantial

distress to me or to another. Should you not comply, you must within 21 days provide

me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to cease

processing all such data. I reserve the right to report your actions to any relevant

regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to

resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. In the absence of a signed

compliant agreement, I would invite you to consider reducing any alleged debt to £0

and enter a 'full and final settlement' as discharged on the alleged account and

with any third parties.

I would ask you to note that I will not enter into communications

regarding this matter except in writing by post. I would appreciate you due

diligence in this matter.

 

Your Faithfully,

 

saddler10

 

 

[saddler10]

Hi all, sent the letter below to Cabot, but have been looking back through correspondence and have seen a couple of interesting things which I will detail in my next post.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

PO Box No.241

West Malling,

Kent

ME19 4NA

 

 

dd/mm/yy

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref: xxxxxxxx

 

PLEASE NOTE- I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

 

Thank you for your letter of dd/mm/yy, the contents of which are noted.

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of

Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you

would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an

alleged debt which was disputed with Egg prior to your first contact with me, and

has yet to be resolved.

According to OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst

investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt." is considered an unfair

practice. You should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with

a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.

 

I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and

will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall

report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial

Ombudsman Service.

 

As stated in my previous correspondence, the document you enclosed does not comply

with the Consumer Credit

Act 1974 Section 60 (2) and Consumer Credit (Agreements)

Regulations 1983 schedule 1 in that not all the 'prescribed' terms are present.

 

1. The terms 'Limit' 'Approved Limit' and 'Individual Limit' are not prescribed

terms, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 schedule 1 para

8 as the meaning of such terms cannot be exactly ascertained by the debtor.

 

2. The document does not state a rate of interest for cash withdrawals. The document

only states an APR, this is not sufficient and therefore another presribed term is

missing.

 

3. Paragraph 22 of schedule 1 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations requires that

the agreement details the default charges payable and this document does not.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I

am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this

than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Saddler10