SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[mcuth]

I think most of us have ceased making payments and are sitting back waiting for them to respond now.

 

In my case I have instructed CCCS to not make payments on any accounts where a CCA request hasn't produced the full true copy. if it does appear by some miracle then they have the money to resume payment including those witheld.

 

Yup, that's pretty much what I'm doing too

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[ecobabe]

thanks tamadus, any ideas of what to put on n1? do i put the statement,"taking money by deception" ?

[pj41]

Hi All,

 

 

This thread is so busy its getting muddled (in my opinion!)

 

A CCA request for a true copy agreement and (a deed of assignment if you are being persued by a DCA) after 12 days and then they are in default PLUS another month its then a criminal offence.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

pj41

 

ps look at message 755 THE CCA is an ACT OF PARLIAMENT and makes these financial institutions take note of what you are asking for.

[ecobabe]

pj, thanks for that, but I'm way past that stage(defaulted in July). it's the stage after all of that is done that I'm at. I'm sure there are quite a few folks now at this stage

[pj41]

Hi ecobabe,

 

If you send me a pm I will copy you what I put on my N1 to reclaim money I had paid to a DCA who defaulted on me under the CCA.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

pj41

[noomill060]

Let me get this straight- a finance company or DCA who fails to provide true copy agreement and/or a deed of assignment in the specified time frame cannot enforce that alleged debt under the original agreement (I get this so far) but can also be sued for all payments made under the original loan. Is that what we are saying here?

[ecobabe]

well if they can produce the agreemnet later they can have it enforced later. in my case there never was an agreement, but when i started paying dca 6-7 yrs ago my finances were in chaos left with a child and a sh** load of debt I agreed to make payments without knowing anything about debt. now that i know a bit more about these things it's not even a debt that i took out, my other half took it out and i've been paying it and dca led me to believe that i had to, so i'm now turning that around. but technically i believe that if the company cannot provide a copy of the agreement then it not enforceable

[tamadus]

thanks tamadus, any ideas of what to put on n1? do i put the statement,"taking money by deception" ?

 

I dont know the exact details of your case ecobabe but you seem furthest along this route than any of us now :o

 

PM me and we can discuss your N1 Poc.

[pj41]

Hi All,

 

Re' the above :I have gone for it and sued a DCA for money I paid them before I knew anything about the CCA letter.

 

I decided to do this because the DCA initially sued me for £5.5K from a Credit Card that they had alleged they had bought I sent the CCA letter and my quid and THEY had it stayed. No docs no proof!

 

So i sued them for the money that I had be conned into paying them.

 

They have defended and I have just today filed my Allocation questionaire A N150. I have respectfully, requested that the judge keep it to the small claims track as it's not complicated its an issue of fact and not LAW NO docs no claim (in the first instance) so if they wont continue with their claim and have also defaulted on my request and committed an offence by not producing the docs in time, why should they even demand never mind collect money under a deed of assignemnt and agreement that they can't produce a copy of!

 

Time will tell!!!

 

 

pj41

[elsinore]

Hi All,

 

Re' the above :I have gone for it and sued a DCA for money I paid them before I knew anything about the CCA letter.

 

 

I'm completely with you pj, it's exactly what I plan to do. Have you a thread for this or will you post progress on here?

 

Elsinore

[pj41]

well if they can produce the agreemnet later they can have it enforced later. in my case there never was an agreement, but when i started paying dca 6-7 yrs ago my finances were in chaos left with a child and a sh** load of debt I agreed to make payments without knowing anything about debt. now that i know a bit more about these things it's not even a debt that i took out, my other half took it out and i've been paying it and dca led me to believe that i had to, so i'm now turning that around. but technically i believe that if the company cannot provide a copy of the agreement then it not enforceable

 

There can be a lot of issues here, where you married to your other half?

did you counter sign the agreement?

 

An argument you may want to use later could be "before I was aware of my rights" if the comment "well ecobabe has paid us £x for x months /years so there must be a debt"

 

I am of the opinion that the best form of defence is attack. Did they obtain a "pecunary advantage by deception"? Don't quote me on this I need to look it up!! lol

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Paul

[pj41]

I'm completely with you pj, it's exactly what I plan to do. Have you a thread for this or will you post progress on here?

 

Elsinore

 

Err well, Cough ,Cough, I have replies in a thread originally started by martin3030 Hillesden Securities default entry in "other institutions" .

 

Which I am sure you will be delighted to read elsinore as it has some relavence to our friends Citi Bank.

 

I will post progress in both threads as I feel that the outcome of my action is going to be quite important to others.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

pj41

[elsinore]

Thanks for that pj, I've subscribed to martin's thread.

That's one problem with this site, it's so big there are forums/threads that I've never ventured into!

 

Elsinore

[SHERLOCK]

reading through this thread, Studio have stated in my CCA reply:

 

'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your first order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, to return one copy to us and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of making immediate payment in full for the goods. Your subsequent repayment decision demonstrates that the first option was your clear and obvious choice'.

 

However it is clear a debt exists and that, at present, we realise the courts could not grant an enforcement order should a default summons be issued by us because of non-payment. It is only in such circumstances that it would be justified to recover originals from our archives.

 

Is this the correct stance or as I do not remember signing or agreeing to the alleged account OR sure I received the goods should I insist these are supplied and that the CCA Request has not been adhered to??

 

ta,SHERLOCK

[tamadus]

reading through this thread, Studio have stated in my CCA reply:

 

'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your first order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, to return one copy to us and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of making immediate payment in full for the goods. Your subsequent repayment decision demonstrates that the first option was your clear and obvious choice'.

 

However it is clear a debt exists and that, at present, we realise the courts could not grant an enforcement order should a default summons be issued by us because of non-payment. It is only in such circumstances that it would be justified to recover originals from our archives.

 

Is this the correct stance or as I do not remember signing or agreeing to the alleged account OR sure I received the goods should I insist these are supplied and that the CCA Request has not been adhered to??

 

ta,SHERLOCK

 

They have given you nothing but waffle, they have not satisfied your CCA request by any means of the imagination.

 

I'd drop them a letter telling them in no uncertain terms that your request is legally binding under the CCA sec. 77/78 and unless they comply with it you will take further action. Failure to comply will result in the account becoming unenforceable and a claim for a refund of any money paid to them.

[Number6]

reading through this thread, Studio have stated in my CCA reply:

 

'We would remind you that the original credit agreement was sent with your first order when the account was opened in September 2004. Our customers are asked to sign both copies, to return one copy to us and to keep their copy in a safe place should they decide to choose repayment by credit terms instead of making immediate payment in full for the goods. Your subsequent repayment decision demonstrates that the first option was your clear and obvious choice'.

 

However it is clear a debt exists and that, at present, we realise the courts could not grant an enforcement order should a default summons be issued by us because of non-payment. It is only in such circumstances that it would be justified to recover originals from our archives.

 

Is this the correct stance or as I do not remember signing or agreeing to the alleged account OR sure I received the goods should I insist these are supplied and that the CCA Request has not been adhered to??

 

ta,SHERLOCK

 

As tam said, a load of twaddle.

 

Write back to them reminding them of the LEGAL OBLIGATION to provide you with a copy. Also remind them that the clock is still ticking from the date of your original request.

 

Pete

[un1boy]

Does the sec 77/78 request force them to suplly default notices? This is a fact i am still uncertain about. also, if they do not provide a statement of account (which is?!) are they still in breach?

[jamesbond]

how will the new cca 2006 affect cases that are being disputed now in regards to having no agreement? does this mean we have to get the case into court and settled before the new act comes into place? will the banks be able to reopen cases of non compliance with the previous 1974 act? or will this new ruling only be applicable to loans taken out after april 2006?

i have a thread with some issues regarding no agreement here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/50380-no-credit-agreement-ppi.html

if any one could take a look and offer some ideas on the way forward i would be thankful.....007

[ecobabe]

as i have read it the new act comes into being in April 2008(the part that covers this) and will only affect agreements made after this date not existing ones.

[me_n_my_kids]

i have read this entire thread and found it truely amazing that more people dont seem to be making it harder for these companies to get money out of them. until now i have been thudding along doing as best as i can and paying everything possible to these companies, including there interest and charges at sometimes around £30 a time! im shocked.

 

is the bottom line that we can write to them after the 12 working days, plus the further 30 days are up, saying that we relinquish the debt and dont need to pay anymore?

[me_n_my_kids]

and i forgot to ask, this applies to debts currently being paid under a debt management plan monthly with payplan?

[baileyboy]

i have read this entire thread and found it truely amazing that more people dont seem to be making it harder for these companies to get money out of them. until now i have been thudding along doing as best as i can and paying everything possible to these companies, including there interest and charges at sometimes around £30 a time! im shocked.

 

is the bottom line that we can write to them after the 12 working days, plus the further 30 days are up, saying that we relinquish the debt and dont need to pay anymore?

 

 

I have been very interested also in this thread. I think the object of the game, and that is what it is, is to ensure and make these big financial institutions obey the law to the letter, and not ride roughshod over the consumer and the law, as they have done for many a year.

 

If your object is to refuse ownership of the debt that you have incurred, then this is probably the wrong forum. If my assessment is wrong then someone please comment.

[pj41]

and i forgot to ask, this applies to debts currently being paid under a debt management plan monthly with payplan?

 

Hi There,

 

After the initial 12 days with no satisfactory response from your creditor they are "in default" of your request. So you can legitamately stop payments to them. The criminal offence aspect is (after a further month)the last nail in their coffin.

 

Criminal offences are arrestable!! lol Just think of all the chairpersons we could have arrested for demanding money with no documentation to support their claim for it.

 

I would contact your debt management company and TELL them that that is what you ARE going to do. As I doubt that they will have very much knowledge of what you have done/acheived re' the CCA letter, but I may be wrong.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

pj41

[pj41]

I have been very interested also in this thread. I think the object of the game, and that is what it is, is to ensure and make these big financial institutions obey the law to the letter, and not ride roughshod over the consumer and the law, as they have done for many a year.

 

If your object is to refuse ownership of the debt that you have incurred, then this is probably the wrong forum. If my assessment is wrong then someone please comment.

 

Hi B ailyboy,

 

I do not, and dont think anyone else in here either, would encourage people to or try to find themselves a way to wriggle out of paying what they legitamately owe.

 

However, financial institutions produce very lengthy terms and conditions on the reverse of loan application forms, and on the front it will say "this agreement is covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 do not sign it unless you want to be legally bound to its terms. (or words to that effect).

 

They if we dont pay through hardship or whatever then issue a default notice in accordance with the same legislation. The Act is two way traffic and as we now know can offer us some protection.

 

All we are asking is show me a copy of the doc I signed and send me a statement. The repercussions that follow by not complying is there own fault.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

pj41

[me_n_my_kids]

Baileyboy - i understand what your saying, and i didnt mean my only reason for pursuing this was to stop paying money i legitimitly owe, but as the others have said, im getting constantly hounded with letters as soon as a payment is a day late, telling me they are adding charges etc. i just cant afford to pay these and at the moment pay every penny we have that we can affford goes to these companies and their charges. we pay £130pm and due to some of these charges our debt is not reduced by even £100 a month. this is what i feel needs to be fought.

 

the managed loan is another story. i was forced into that and told lies by the bank, which i need to know somehow how to follow this up, and im starting with the cca letter as advised here, and was advised by cab to get a copy of it to see what was actually signed 5 years ago when i took it out.

 

i am not trying to get out of debts, purely trying to get back in control of who im paying, how much, and get stress free leading to debt free