Mbna Making Husband Ill

[dpick]

Hi Leyla just looked at your application and as far as I can see it's just that also first requirement is that the copy is readily legible that is not by a long way. There is no way that you would be able to check if all required prescribed terms are in the document, some people are of the opinion that if application has all prescribed terms and is signed by both parties that it is an agreement. I am not sure of that myself.

 

Anyway it is not legible so they have not complied with CCA 1974.

 

all the best dpick:)

[LEYLA]

Appreciate you responding pdick.

 

I'm going to write back to them, saying that an "application form", particularly when it's such a terrible photocopy, isn't acceptable.

Their original deadline was the 25th August. Do I give them extra time, to see what comes of this, or do I now gather my points of complaint and write to relevant authorities?

 

Sorry to be a pain with all these questions, but because different organisations appear to have involvement with this account, I can't get my head around what I'm actually looking for and what would be deemed non compliance, and by whom?

LEYLA

[Goldlady]

Hi Leyla, sorry to hear of your problems but as you are realising there are lots of us in the same situation.

 

Have a read of this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

 

MBNA are no longer a part of my life as they couldn't find anything at all:(. Hopefully you will get there too.

 

It will be MBNA themselves you need to reply to - although with mine I sent everything to the DCA who then forwarded it on.

[dpick]

Appreciate you responding dpick.

 

I'm going to write back to them, saying that an "application form", particularly when it's such a terrible photocopy, isn't acceptable.

Their original deadline was the 25th August. Do I give them extra time, to see what comes of this, or do I now gather my points of complaint and write to relevant authorities?

 

Sorry to be a pain with all these questions, but because different organisations appear to have involvement with this account, I can't get my head around what I'm actually looking for and what would be deemed non compliance, and by whom?

LEYLA

 

Hi LEYLA dpick again welcome to the MBNA haters club I have been chasing MBNA since February to get agreement declared unenforceable and am going for them on two fronts, OFT complaint regarding the methods used by MBNA IE trying to enforce account when that account in dispute and all the phone calls, ignoring all written communication apart from letters that acknowledge receipt of my letters. Absolutely no attempt by MBNA to resolve the issue of agreement or charges. MBNA now have seven days left on LBA before I issue proceeding re agreement and charges.

 

all the best dpick

[LEYLA]

What a wonderful supportive group you all are. Bless you for keeping me going, cos there are times when all this makes me feel like rolling up in a ball and giving in.

I am definately writing back to MBNA today stating that photocopy is unnacceptable. However, still not so clear and confident in my mind as to what I send to authorities and which I approach first!

 

The statement we received with MBNA's terms and conditions is July's, so do I take it that this is now classed as a true and accurate statement of account which was requested with CCA?

Also unable to get my head around BOS original application form from 1997, but MBNA terms from 2005 (with nothing signed by hubbie or self).

 

Thanks Goldlady for the link about CCA. I have read through it several times now, but again, it boils down to the above points, original application from BOS, and terms etc from MBNA at a much later date. So glad to hear that you are now free from them. Good to know that it's possible to "break the shackles".

 

Hi LEYLA dpick again welcome to the MBNA haters club I have been chasing MBNA since February to get agreement declared unenforceable and am going for them on two fronts, OFT complaint regarding the methods used by MBNA IE trying to enforce account when that account in dispute and all the phone calls, ignoring all written communication apart from letters that acknowledge receipt of my letters. Absolutely no attempt by MBNA to resolve the issue of agreement or charges. MBNA now have seven days left on LBA before I issue proceeding re agreement and charges.

 

all the best dpick]QUOTE]

 

dpick, as always, thanks for encouraging me to continue the fight. I really have become a fully fledged member of the club !

It seems they really do believe they are above the law in this country. Good luck, and l would like to know how things progress. LEYLA

[LEYLA]

Feeling really bogged down and unsure of my ground.

Any chance one of my forum friends could help?

 

A letter was sent to mbna last month as mentioned in previous posting. A reply was received stating they were investigating, and would give a response by Sept 25th.

Meantime, one of their lovely pink forms came from customer assistance, with lots of warnings and how they might be able to help (yeah right!!)

 

Two further letters arrived dated on 14th Sept. One regarding financial difficulties and contacting debt team,other thanking us for "recent communication" and query re credit rating. Interesting as this was not queried! I seem to recall that they were told that as the account was in dispute - Quote:-

You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

Please also note that to register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute.

 

This week the long awaited response came.

 

Firstly, their enclosures consisted of August's copy of statement, with overlimit fees, late fees plus interest for good measure.

There was no copy of original agreement with Bank of Scotland, which had been impossible to make out the first time round.

There were 4 pages headed CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974. This had all their latest terms and conditions.

 

Now we come to todays exciting postal delivery, which has got poor hubbie a quivering wreck, and me unsure of next move.

 

If they had played fair with us in the first place, I wouldn't have been inclined to try and fight back! It would seem that even in dispute, their systems continue full steam ahead. One of the major issues included in our letter was the use of three different collection agencies being involved, but I notice that this isn't even mentioned by them!

 

Could really do with some input to bolster my confidence once again! Is it better to contact these bullies and try to sort something out, or do we stick to our guns? Would seem as though all is stacked against us - is it? Or am I just getting scared too easily and not being logical enough?

 

Would be great to hear from someone. Leyla

[Goldlady]

Hi Leyla, I have a file full of letters just like that one. In fact we have successfully got a summons withdrawn and another one about to go (I hope) on the basis that the CCA is not worth the paper it is written on. Do not try and contact them by phone - they will just stress you more. I think, in my experience of such things which is growing rapidly, that YOU have THEM in panic mode. After all what are bullies? People who are insecure. Defaults are part of life for me - I have lots which I am about to fight as MBNA seem to have at least four for the same debt:mad:.

 

As far as I am concerned once a debt is in dispute, which yours certainly is, they can send as many letters from their 'threatomatic' as they want - just file them away and ignore them.

[dpick]

Hi leyla as goldlady says a load of bog standard replies to you question. I think they just look at you letter see say s85 and use standard paragraph number 185 for reply to that question I have seen so many of this form of letter now on the forums. The last letter you received is another threatogram they know they do not have an enforceable agreement in any way shape or form. I would send reply "Please take me to court so I can bring your conduct to the attention of the press and also get your case struck out at court for not having an enforceable agreement"

 

Or as I have done ignore them while you have a good search through the various threads in the forums to find parts of CCA 1974 that reflect your application form/agreement then you take them to court re agreement and charges.

 

To keep you up to date my case I have a hearing 15th October to remove/amend stay. MBNA have now been served with court papers, notified that the case had been stayed and then notified that a hearing for lifting/amending stay had been made. My response from MBNA nothing.

 

all the best dpick:)

[LEYLA]

Gold lady and dpick, great to hear from you.

It helps steady the old nerves, when you hear that these letters are the "bog standard " ones they send.

 

Just a couple of questions. Whenever the debt collector agencies continue to be put on this account (3 so far and probably counting). Do I continue to send them the usual do not acknowledge debt letter? Would this include payment of £1 to request their rights of assignment?

 

Also from what I've read, any complaints to the authorities about MBNA conduct, isn't amounting to anything. Is this something I should still do?

A bit nervous on this one, as I'm bothered that authorities will think we are just trying to get out of paying debts, so would want to be perfectly clear about what is written to them, and that I don't mess it up.

 

Any thoughts? LELA

[Goldlady]

I would just send them the usual letter - I don't think you would need to send them £1 - they might apply it to the account and use it to say that you have acknowledged the debt .

[LEYLA]

Hi Dear Mbna Friends.

 

Been a while since I've updated thread; but once again could do with hearing from someone - pleaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssee!!!

 

Nothing much had changed. I never bothered to make a response to the above reply from Mbna, although perhaps I should have done. Didn't send anything to the authorities, because from what I'm reading on other threads, it doesn't seem to be doing a lot of good!

Anyway over the last couple of weeks, we have received several of the pink letters stating they haven't washed their hands of hubbie and want to offer assistance before terrible things befall him etc etc!

Today postie delivered following letter, which as you will note was dated the 16th.

 

W

Need to bounce this around with someone:???:

Is it time to think about going down the charges route which then acknowledges debt? Or do we continue as we are, and hope they will back down or at least deduct the charges and interest that have been added on whilst account has been in dispute ( although as you will see from their reply on a previous posting, they argue this is not the case).

 

Would appreciate any response - Leyla.

[Goldlady]

Hi Leyla, still here! I think it is just another one of their desperate attempts, but it is difficult to know how to play it if they are so adamant that their application form is valid. In my situation I really can't afford to pay anyone so I do just ignore all their 'threatograms' because really if they do decide to go to court there is very little I can do - other than fight tooth and nail to defend of course;). From all I have learned on here it is a sort of game of 'oneupmanship' and you have to be either pretty tough or pretty unable to pay up to stay in the game.

 

I'm not sure if going down the charges route does admit the debt. After all, what you are saying in disputing the application form is that they don't have the right to claim charges and interest as there is no valid agreement. You are not saying that you didn't borrow the money in the first place. We submitted a court defence on the basis that the CCA was not valid, and added into that defence that if the CCA was found to be valid we wished to reclaim charges, interest and mis-sold PPI. In any event the claimant withdrew their claim.

 

I can;t see anywhere on the thread where you say how much money is at stake here. But I seriously don't see that trying to claim back charges will invalidate the fact that they haven't complied with the CCA.

 

I stand to be corrected;). I think in your situation it is a case of sorting it out asap for your hubby's sake. You can refuse to allow them to visit - we need tomterm's letter - if no-one posts it I will find it for you.

 

Don't give up yet - sorry if I don't make a lot of sense, had a tough couple of days.

 

Goldlady

[dpick]

Hi Leyla another standard letter you notice we MAY take proceedings thats same as me saying I may slap someone in the face don't mean I going to do it.

 

I would send something like this

 

While you MAY have complied with my s77-s79 CCA 1974 request the documents that you have sent are NOT in any way, shape or form comply with an enforceable agreement under CCA 1974. No further payments will be made with regard to this account etc.....

 

As for we will be sending thugs to visit you this is a copy of a copy of a copy etc.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Please be advised that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

 

Yours sincerely,

Its funny MBNA must be getting desperate this is the third time I have posted this letter on an MBNA thread this week.

all the best dpick:)

[Josie8]

Hi Leyla, still here! I think it is just another one of their desperate attempts, but it is difficult to know how to play it if they are so adamant that their application form is valid. In my situation I really can't afford to pay anyone so I do just ignore all their 'threatograms' because really if they do decide to go to court there is very little I can do - other than fight tooth and nail to defend of course;). From all I have learned on here it is a sort of game of 'oneupmanship' and you have to be either pretty tough or pretty unable to pay up to stay in the game.

 

I'm not sure if going down the charges route does admit the debt. After all, what you are saying in disputing the application form is that they don't have the right to claim charges and interest as there is no valid agreement. You are not saying that you didn't borrow the money in the first place. We submitted a court defence on the basis that the CCA was not valid, and added into that defence that if the CCA was found to be valid we wished to reclaim charges, interest and mis-sold PPI. In any event the claimant withdrew their claim.

 

I can;t see anywhere on the thread where you say how much money is at stake here. But I seriously don't see that trying to claim back charges will invalidate the fact that they haven't complied with the CCA.

 

I stand to be corrected;). I think in your situation it is a case of sorting it out asap for your hubby's sake. You can refuse to allow them to visit - we need tomterm's letter - if no-one posts it I will find it for you.

 

Don't give up yet - sorry if I don't make a lot of sense, had a tough couple of days.

 

Goldlady

 

 

The House of Lords Case Wilson v FCT held that the debtor can enforce the agreement even when the CREDITOR can't because they haven't got an enforceable agreement. It makes no difference if you aacknowledge debt - the House of Lords held that the Creditors loss of any balance outstanding was the financial penalty for failing to comply with the Consumer Credit Act.

[LEYLA]

What great forum mates you all are.

Only just logged on, and so delighted that you've taken the trouble to give me replies. Been babysitting small Grandchildren, so it's the first chance I've had to concentrate on anything else!

 

Afraid I do tend to get my self in a bit of a knot, specially when I see how all this affects other half. He's fine until something new comes through the door, then he's really uptight for days> So thankful to have somewhere that helps answer questions I wouldn't have any answeres to otherwise.

 

Gold Lady, you asked:-

I can;t see anywhere on the thread where you say how much money is at stake here.

 

It is now a few pence short of £2,000! However, they have been adding £24 + £45 in charges and interest monthly, even with account being in dispute. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the balance they are quoting isn't what we originally owed.

I know what you mean about not being able to pay. As you've probably seen from earlier postings, we had several creditors who we approached to make reduced payments. Mbna were the only ones who were truly nasty about it and refused.

Good luck to you with your own battle Gold Lady - I just hope that some day soon, I might be able to offer others on this site words of wisdom and encouragement in the way you have to me.

 

Its funny MBNA must be getting desperate this is the third time I have posted this letter on an MBNA thread this week.

Great to hear from you dpick. Thankyou for such a useful letter, shall definately be using it. I do try to read as many of the threads as and when I can, however it's been a couple of weeks since I've had the chance to (Extra babysitting at the moment)!

 

As always you put things in great prospective,

another standard letter you notice we MAY take proceedings thats same as me saying I may slap someone in the face don't mean I going to do it.

Love it - made me have a good giggle!

 

Hi Josie

The House of Lords Case Wilson v FCT held that the debtor can enforce the agreement even when the CREDITOR can't because they haven't got an enforceable agreement. It makes no difference if you aacknowledge debt - the House of Lords held that the Creditors loss of any balance outstanding was the financial penalty for failing to comply with the Consumer Credit Act.

Really appreciate this piece of of legal info. However, as always, this is where the lack of confidence shows through with me!

In Mbnas response letter from September. Para 4 &5 outline their belief that they have complied in all areas, (even though they didn't actually send me another photocopy as indicated on letter). My understanding is that if they provide documentation at any time, even after deadlines set, then this changes the enfoceability angle!

 

Just voicing thoughts as I go along, so not sure if it makes any sense at all, but would like to know what anyone else thinks?

 

Leyla

 

 

[LEYLA]

Just need to vent out my anger. Where better to do it, than on here amongst those of you who are experiencing underhand deelings of mbna?

 

Sent letter to the customer advocate department yesterday, outlining disagreement with their so called investigation, and continuing statements, charges and use of other collection agencies.

Had just sent post off by recorded delivery and got home to find new statement on door mat, further letter and (wait for it - a post card)!!

 

Statement dated 19th Oct now shows a balance of £2,134.55. Also states that account is scheduled to be defaulted and sold to a third party. Letter dated same day, is stating account in arrears and that if not brought up to date, will be registered as default. They don't give up do they?

 

Now the wonderful postcard with beautiful pumpkins on the front!!

Sent second class and says:

I confirm I will be calling you week commencing 29/10/2007. If inconvenient please call 01244672337 Ext. Ref D.P

Can only assume this is linked to the helpful people in Chester! I actually did ring the number out of interest, and it didn't go through a switchboard or any automated system, didn't even announce who they were, but guess what? Was answered by a real person saying "Hello" - couldn't believe it, put the phone down again in shock:eek:

 

Ok, so perhaps I should have been braver and spoken to the poor guy, but my weekend was spoilt already. What do you reckon - is it time to batten down the hatches in case collectors start trying to crawl through my windows?

 

Leyla

[Goldlady]

They are getting desperate. No-one will call at the house - I am 99% sure of that. They might ring your neighbours (did that to me:mad:) but I have yet to see a man in a black crombie turn up here. I am sure 'calling' means 'ringing' rather than actually visiting. I even had a card handed to me once by the postman saying 'we called today but you weren't in' - that was from MBNA.

[LEYLA]

Hi Gold Lady,

Great to hear from you.

 

I can't get over the way mbna seem to flaunt the law!

 

Have had a bit of a chuckle throughout the day, as I've imagined men trying to fit through small gaps in the windows and me beating them off with my walking stick!

They might just find they've bitten off more than they can chew:lol:

At least the pumpkin postcard has given me some of my sense of humour back.

 

Leyla

[Goldlady]

HI Leyla

 

They are idiots aren't they. Don't give in - you are getting there. Just file all their letters away - that's all I do, although the post is getting a bit boring these days.

 

I have been away for the weekend - but even that tells its own story

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/118539-18-shopping-117-50-a.html

[dpick]

Hi leyla the potty post card as you will have guessed is just another attempt to get you to ring them. They are not known for going to someones home if you are worried send them the letter re common trespass I posted a few posts back. In my opinion just ignore it same as they do all your letters.

 

I like your method of giving them silent calls

 

all the best dpick:D

[Josie8]

What great forum mates you all are.

Only just logged on, and so delighted that you've taken the trouble to give me replies. Been babysitting small Grandchildren, so it's the first chance I've had to concentrate on anything else!

 

Afraid I do tend to get my self in a bit of a knot, specially when I see how all this affects other half. He's fine until something new comes through the door, then he's really uptight for days> So thankful to have somewhere that helps answer questions I wouldn't have any answeres to otherwise.

 

Gold Lady, you asked:-

I can;t see anywhere on the thread where you say how much money is at stake here.

 

It is now a few pence short of £2,000! However, they have been adding £24 + £45 in charges and interest monthly, even with account being in dispute. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the balance they are quoting isn't what we originally owed.

I know what you mean about not being able to pay. As you've probably seen from earlier postings, we had several creditors who we approached to make reduced payments. Mbna were the only ones who were truly nasty about it and refused.

Good luck to you with your own battle Gold Lady - I just hope that some day soon, I might be able to offer others on this site words of wisdom and encouragement in the way you have to me.

 

Its funny MBNA must be getting desperate this is the third time I have posted this letter on an MBNA thread this week.

Great to hear from you dpick. Thankyou for such a useful letter, shall definately be using it. I do try to read as many of the threads as and when I can, however it's been a couple of weeks since I've had the chance to (Extra babysitting at the moment)!

 

As always you put things in great prospective,

another standard letter you notice we MAY take proceedings thats same as me saying I may slap someone in the face don't mean I going to do it.

Love it - made me have a good giggle!

 

Hi Josie

The House of Lords Case Wilson v FCT held that the debtor can enforce the agreement even when the CREDITOR can't because they haven't got an enforceable agreement. It makes no difference if you aacknowledge debt - the House of Lords held that the Creditors loss of any balance outstanding was the financial penalty for failing to comply with the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Really appreciate this piece of of legal info. However, as always, this is where the lack of confidence shows through with me!

In Mbnas response letter from September. Para 4 &5 outline their belief that they have complied in all areas, (even though they didn't actually send me another photocopy as indicated on letter). My understanding is that if they provide documentation at any time, even after deadlines set, then this changes the enfoceability angle!

 

Just voicing thoughts as I go along, so not sure if it makes any sense at all, but would like to know what anyone else thinks?

 

Leyla

 

 

 

Only if they produce an enforceable agreement....................

 

MBNA appear to work on the basis of deny deny deny and hope to wear the debtor out with threats and harrassment. At the end of the day if they haven't got an enforceable agreement to produce to the court then my dear they are well and truely stuffed........................

[LEYLA]

HI Leyla

 

They are idiots aren't they. Don't give in - you are getting there. Just file all their letters away - that's all I do, although the post is getting a bit boring these days.

 

I have been away for the weekend - but even that tells its own story

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/118539-18-shopping-117-50-a.html

Hi Goldlady, see you're from my neck of the woods ( I'm not far from Newcastle). I thought my run of luck was a bit off, but that's incredible. Great presence of mind you have, not sure I would have been so calm!

 

dpick, just read your thread and outcome from court. So pleased, and wishing you the very best of luck. As for being worried by the card! No, I just get a bit unsure of my footing from time to time, and need to clarify I'm going about things in right way, as it's difficult to discuss with hubbie especially when he gets so wound up!

 

Josie8:-

MBNA appear to work on the basis of deny deny deny and hope to wear the debtor out with threats and harrassment. At the end of the day if they haven't got an enforceable agreement to produce to the court then my dear they are well and truely stuffed.................. ......

Thanks for the reassurance Josie. As I pointed out above, sometimes it's a case of me thinking outloud (or rather online) to ensure I'm on right track and not being "brainwashed".

I know I bash on a bit, but if the general consensus from the forum is that the documentation I've posted does not meet the requirements of an enforceable agreement, then that's good enough for me:)

LEYLA

[Goldlady]

I am ignoring about three DCAs at the moment on the basis that they have not supplied valid CCA's. I get letters and phone calls but I have already written to say that I don't consider they have supplied a valid CCA and I really can't be bothered to send them any more letters:p. I live near Heworth by the way.

 

And my dealings with the parking man - I think I must have a degree in crisis management after all life has thrown at me - and still I keep smiling (or is that the effects of the red wine?)

[joesoap]

Probably the effects of the red wine!

[miss muppet]

Daughter got the pumpkin postcard, hadn't a clue who it was from until we got follow up threatening and agressive telephone message which sounded as if the person was speaking with their lips glued around the 'phone mouthpiece ( a bit when like when I went to an Elton John concert and couldn't hear a word he was singing due to his lips being glued to microphone!) Ring on doorbell at 9pm last night gave us pause for thought but think it must have been late trick or treater. Think MBNA must be staffed by failed actors from gangster movies!