Any examples of No CCA produced Court Wins

[ODC]

I was pulling your leg mate:)

I thought I better make myself clear for the Men in Black:)

[Fullyskinted]

They do not need a court order to enforce the agreement if they comply fully with the S77/78 request, albeit out of time. The offence is for not supplying within 12+30 days. If they do then supply, they can continue to enforce the agreement as it was before the S77/78 request (Civil Law). The criminal offence does still exist however, even though it has been mitigated (Criminal Law).

 

OK, so they offer up the CCA copy (allbeit a **** one) approx 4.5 mths after the initial request...

They then write to me and in the letter it says that they were within thewir rights to ask for payment and add interest...

 

Err, What the hell!!! As far as I see it, WHILST THEY WERE IN DEFAULT I shouldnt have been paying or being requested payment or any interest added. Am I correct???

 

Can someone shed some light on a case/document that outlines this a bit harder? COs theyre on my case BIG time!

[sequenci]

 

Err, What the hell!!! As far as I see it, WHILST THEY WERE IN DEFAULT I shouldnt have been paying or being requested payment or any interest added. Am I correct???

 

Can someone shed some light on a case/document that outlines this a bit harder? COs theyre on my case BIG time!

 

the only thing i could find was that under the OFT guidance (s2.8k) a creditor should halt all action whilst there is a reasonable query in place.

 

this whole "default" thing has been blown up by CAG members and confuses me somewhat.

[ODC]

Well if you dont think the produced one is genuine then dont pay. If you think its sufficient for a court case then let them explain to a judge as to why it took them 4.5 months to produce it if by the very nature of their threatening letters they were leading you to believe that they actually had one. I believe you would get a fairer hearing from a judge. You have to way things up, eg is the debt worth their while, will their alleged document satisfy the Rules of Evidence. What will the judge do regarding the summary offence they have committed by not producing within the calendar month. Will he fine them more than the interest they are trying to extort from you? If you go down the court route there are plenty of very wise folk on here who will help you and make sure that the DCA have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's. They usually rely on people rolling over once they mention COURT:eek:

[lookinforinfo]

s.77 [4]"if a creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection [1]

a] he is not entitled to, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

and

b] if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

[Fullyskinted]

Well if you dont think the produced one is genuine then dont pay. If you think its sufficient for a court case then let them explain to a judge as to why it took them 4.5 months to produce it if by the very nature of their threatening letters they were leading you to believe that they actually had one. I believe you would get a fairer hearing from a judge. You have to way things up, eg is the debt worth their while, will their alleged document satisfy the Rules of Evidence. What will the judge do regarding the summary offence they have committed by not producing within the calendar month. Will he fine them more than the interest they are trying to extort from you? If you go down the court route there are plenty of very wise folk on here who will help you and make sure that the DCA have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's. They usually rely on people rolling over once they mention COURT:eek:

 

Understood.

 

s.77 [4]"if a creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection [1]

a] he is not entitled to, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

and

b] if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

 

Yes, I am aware of these, but WHERE does it actualyl say the words, 'no interest, no DCAs, no requests for payment etc (rather than just 'the agreement is unenforceable)

 

I want to button it down in the letter I intend to send them this week...

 

I am at this time creating a new thread with all the details and it will hopefully become clearer what Im getting at...

[hisholinessthepope]

It doesn't fully skint. The bits to focus on are "not entitled" .... "to enforce"

 

On what basis do they add interest - it is in the agreement.

On what basis do they chase payment - it is in the agreement.

The DCA is merely also chasing payment as the line above.

 

There are some excellent letters on Zubo's thread below, as you work your way through the thread the letters get "stronger" you might find one that says what you want

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources.html

[tsiman]

Ahh but they have not sent me a Statement of Account!

 

So this will mean they are in default whatever they say about the agreement...

[hisholinessthepope]

As fullyskinted is aware I am currently researching and preparing to go to court to "win" over no credit agreement as thread below

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/94309-no-cca-agreement-unenforceable.html

[Fullyskinted]

Right, see my new thread here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/97485-mbna-cca-received-5-a.html#post904642

[gizmo111]

OK. How about this.

 

They admit they have omitted to send the documents. Can they continue as normal once they have sent a copy of the CCA.

 

I have read on the board that they have to get permission from a court to enforce once they have defaulted (which they did Thur/Fri)

 

The debt is only unenforceable whilst the default reamins - once they supply the docs the debt is enforceable, and no permission is needed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html#post742396

[ODC]

The debt is only unenforceable whilst the default reamins - once they supply the docs the debt is enforceable, and no permission is needed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html#post742396

 

Provided of course the documents are a true and legal copy of an Executed CCA agreement and contain all the prescribed terms and conditions

[sequenci]

s.77 [4]"if a creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection [1]

a] he is not entitled to, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

and

b] if the default continues for one month he commits an offence."

 

so the default is only if no agreement is furnished. so the actually act of sending the cca request doesn't put the account into default itself..

[lookinforinfo]

I totally agree with that Sequenci, though it would seem to be skating on

thin ice to continue enforcement if there is a doubt that the documents can be supplied within the specified time.

 

Though Fullyskinted did say that he had waited for five months for his

agreement to turn up.

[ODC]

I totally agree with that Sequenci, though it would seem to be skating on

thin ice to continue enforcement if there is a doubt that the documents can be supplied within the specified time.

 

Though Fullyskinted did say that he had waited for five months for his

agreement to turn up.

It shows how desperate the DCAs have become that they spent 5 months trying to locate a document that they paid a pittance for. Are we sure that after such a long time it actually is the genuine article.

[joneshousehold]

Going back to the original question, there are no real cases apart from the redoubtable Mrs Wilson. I did help another user The Phantom on this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/48764-being-taken-court-joint.html

From memory the creditor(s) withdrew from action as they could not find the agreement. Have a read and see what you can find out

[tsiman]

Would I be right in thinking that if they do not have a properly executed CCA then:

 

1. They will try everything they can to deny this.

2. Try to bully you into making payments.

3. Initiate court action to show they mean business.

4. Threaten large costs awards

4. Pull out and settle at the last moment.

 

Or am I just dreaming

 

Maybe the thread should have been entitled "Any example of No CCA produced Court Losses"

 

From what I have read this does not work if there is already a CCJ. But otherwise????

[ODC]

Would I be right in thinking that if they do not have a properly executed CCA then:

 

1. They will try everything they can to deny this. YES

2. Try to bully you into making payments. Most Definately YES

3. Initiate court action to show they mean business. NO They will threaten but will not waste the money sending REAL court papers out. The most Probably will send Official Looking Papers:rolleyes:

4. Threaten large costs awards They always do and lead you to believe they will win the case and send the boys round, get an attachment of your earnings, make you sell your house:shock:

4. Pull out and settle at the last moment. Fold at the last moment when they realise they cannot produce. Dont blink before them

 

Or am I just dreaming

 

Maybe the thread should have been entitled "Any example of No CCA produced Court Losses"

 

From what I have read this does not work if there is already a CCJ. But otherwise????

 

:D

[hellhasnofury]

Hello, sorry to jump in. I have been reading this thread for information relating to court issues for the recovery of a debt. and the failure of the supply of a improper excuted agreement. re application form against credit agreement.

 

I am looking as I need to send my defence to the court quite soon. and I am floundering a bit.

 

Could some of you most learned cags have a look at my thread and advise me please

 

revenge is sweet-v-hfc

 

Again sorry for the hijack, but I am getting really confused and I only have one chance at this.

[pudsters14]

I could do with some advice on my thread too, have got mixed opinions about whether the application form MBNA have sent me can be enforced... thanx

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/77464-pudsters14-mbna.html

[pudsters14]

Sorry for jumping in on your thread BTW