Seriously Confused Could Use Some Insight and Advice.

[Curlyben]

This is very twisty, but I'll try and explain.

 

Starts like this.

Had two loans A1 and A2 these where combined into one loan A.

Now loans A1 and A2 all signed correctly etc. Combined loan A not signed for at all and I was completely unaware of it until I received SAR.Had a store card B1 (first purchase) B2 (second purchase), why each purchase has a seperate account number is beyond me, could be B1 was first year free and B2 wasn't. This card was filled in in store and issued. The normal story.

 

Now I got into payment difficulty so A + B1 + B2 = Loan C.

 

So my SAR shows A, B1, B2 and C.

Now C was completely to pay off the others, but as I didn't sign or have knowledge of A where do I stand ?

 

Can they do this basically put a loan I have no knowledge of into a combined loan to pay off the whole debt ??

The SAR does show the elements of C above, but no mention of the original A1 and A2 loans. After going through my bank statements I have found the numbers for the missing loans, but still nothing for A.

 

As you can imagine I'm rather confused.

I'm going to have to CCA them anyway as the SAR didn't have any mention of interest rates, just transactions with codes for charges etc.

Yes I am going for the charges.

I know I owe money, but I'm not prepared to pay for something I'm not liable for. All I want is the total I owe without all of this concealment.

 

Any help, advice, comments gladly accepted.

I can see this is going to be a right pain to sort out especially as A1 and A2 date back to 1998.

[Curlyben]

On the CCA front as there are 6 seperate account numbers would I need to make 6 £1 payments or does one cover all of them ?

[sequenci]

On the CCA front as there are 6 seperate account numbers would I need to make 6 £1 payments or does one cover all of them ?

 

my understanding is that you would have to CCA each agreement. although a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should cover all accounts. The CCA request would bring up any unenforceability arguments, however.

[Curlyben]

Thanks sequenci, that makes some sense.

So far though my SAR hasn't produced any information about accounts A1 and A2.

Also I need the CCA for the interest rate and/or PPI charged on each account.

[Curlyben]

Jusst drafting a letter to send regarding partial compliance of SAR.

I have the missing account numbers and I'll get this information from them somehow.

Honestly I'm not holding my breath but we'll see what happens once I shake the tree some more.

[rory32]

Good luck.....I had a similar problem with MBNA "forgetting" about one of my accounts when SAR'd as they had closed it about a year ago and I couldn't remember the account number.

[Curlyben]

Luckly in this case I have the "missing" account numbers.

What really concerns me is the fact they have combined two accounts into one without my authorisation or signature. So basically I'm repaying a potentially completely unexcuted debt.

 

Where do I stand with this ?

[rory32]

I don't know the legality of it but I know in my Nationwide account t&c's they state "At any time we may, without notice, combine two or more accounts or set off any debit balance on one account against a credit balance on another account."

However, as both accounts in your case are loans and by combining the loans they are effectively refinancing you they would need a new agreement. Especially if interest rates or the length of the loans were not exactly the same.

 

Oh, got the MBNA account number as a DCA were stupid enough to contact me recently regarding the account.

[rory32]

Just had a thought....when I incorporated my overdraft into an existing loan that I had with the bank a few years ago I had to sign a new agreement as it was effectively a new loan. I don't see how the same would not have to apply here.

[Curlyben]

Rory that's my though entirely.

Now if, as I suspect, loan A is indeed not properly executed then how does that leave loan C which was specifically signed to combine all existing debt ??

[rory32]

Simple answer is I don't know, but it seems dodgy. I think you need some proper legal advice on this one. Don't know if CCCS or CAB could help you but there's no harm in asking them.

[Curlyben]

I seem to remember that the loans A1 and A2 where for around 4-4.5k each, so adding them together gives less than the 12k of loan A.

Hmm something odd is afoot.

[Curlyben]

So getting somewhere with this, but VERY slowly.

 

I've SAR'd them for accounts A1 and A2 as I found the numbers.

Now I have received ONE account, but nothing on the other.

So basically it looks like they have over charged me by several grand.

Just before I received this latest SAR I got a letter from their complaints dept saying that they are looking into my complaint and will update me soon.

Now I haven't complained, yet .....

[rory32]

But you will

[diskmandave]

This looks very in depth!

 

** Now C was completely to pay off the others, but as I didn't sign or have knowledge of A where do I stand ?

 

Just picking through this time and time again seems to shout out that this is where the crux of it is...? This seems to be the one that ties it all together.

 

On my LTSB thread the O/S amount is a combined debt, and I remember having different account numbers and numerous loans with different account numbers that were all tied together with a master account number.

 

If C was to tidy everything up, I think attacking that may be the way forward as C would effectively close the agreements of the others.

 

Just about tied up in knots now!

 

Regards, Dave.

[Curlyben]

I see where you're coming from there Dave, problem with that is the paperwork for C is correct, but as it's to pay off other indebtedness which doesn't added up there's my problem.

 

I'll try and simplify things a little and put some numbers in.

 

A1 - 4.5

A2 - 4.5

A - 12

B1 - 1

B2 - 1

 

C - 14

 

In theory A1 +A2 = A (4.5 + 4.5 = 9 NO 12)

A + B1 + B2 = C (12 + 1 + 1 = 14 )

 

So as a rough calculation A is overstated by 3, and this is before taking charges into account which I believe are around 2.

 

So all in all over charge is 5 !!

This is withot any interest or PPI.

 

Also I have S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info for A1, A, B1, B2 and C, NOTHING for A2 at all.

I also correct have CCA for C.

Think I'll have to CCA the remaining ones and see what turns up.

 

A doesn't show what it was used for, so I'm guessing really.

[diskmandave]

Would it not be an idea to put these figures down in the form of a complaint and see what they come back with, as they certainly don't seem to add up...?!

[Curlyben]

OK guys I could use some help with a killer letter for this one.

I have received a letter from their central complaints concerning charges and they are willing to refund £90 odd.

Well this is no where near what it should be. On a rough estimate the total charges are around £2k and there some serious doubt over how this whole mess was put together.

 

Now as previously mentioned I have SAr'd these people and not really received a satisfactory response.

I have some information, but a whole account (5k) is missing, no records at all. I even supplied them with the account number for it.

 

Now what I want them to do is explain, in detail, how the final loan C was made up and everything leading into it.

 

Basically as loan C was to repay ALL indebtedness then if they can't prove the progression then surely something has gone seriously wrong and I want them to ackonwledge this fact.

 

At the end of the day there IS a debt, but I'll be damned if I'll pay their charges ontop of the laon and interest.

 

So guys what do I say ??

Other than the obvious, "bugger off I ain't paying you squat" !!

[rory32]

Umm will need to have a think.

[Curlyben]

Cheers Rory.

I'll post a few thoughts and see what you all think.

ANY help will be accepted with this.

 

I have a feeling this will exceed my five pager to monument.

[Brassed off]

Umm will need to have a think.

 

Concur with Rory on this one

 

***Brassed Off goes to lie down***

 

Was never good at this sort of stuff at school, however, grammar and spelling pretty good.

 

Post your letter and I will try and make them get their dictionaries out;)

 

Bo x

[tomterm8]

Hi, Curly, I need to do some thinking here, too.

[Curlyben]

Cheers TT.

A little more information.

 

This is an OC not a DCA.

This all started off in 1999/2000

It's not one of the big high street names, but one of Dave's friends.

I don't want to give away too much, just in case

 

If you need anything else, shout.

[Curlyben]

I am not requesting a refund of the charges, per se, but a full investigation into the validiity of loan C.

This loan was originally set up to consolidate outstanding indebtness to your company. Despite several S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'s I have failed to reconcile the complete value of this loan. I am of the belief that some serious mismanagement has occured to my financial detrement.

 

 

Ok just thinking aloud here.

 

Should I give them all the account numbers I have now or leave that for a follow up letter ?

Basically this letter can set out the opening arguements and see what their response is ??

[Curlyben]

Is financial mismanagement a valid reason to pursue this issue ?

How would I go about resolving charges on loans that have been combined in this way ?

Can they consolodate loans without my knowledge/signature ?

Would a CCA/SAR failure on earlier loans make loan C invalid ?

 

Comments/thoughts