CCA74 - NO CREDIT AGREEMENT - claim all monies back?

[Fullyskinted]

Subscribing...

[Josie8]

The CCA74 came in to force on 1 January 1976.

 

Has no case law re: failure to comply with s.77/78 request and monies paid on debts made unenforceable by the creditor's failure been established yet?

 

No but thats probably because it is generally people who have little understanding (untill now) of their legal rights are the people most affected by the DCA's etc. If there had been case law the bbig bad boys would have put their houses in order by now

[Rodders59]

Hi All

 

Can some kind soul give the case reference for Wilson v FCT?

 

Regards

 

Rodders59

[MAVERICKMAN]

Hi All

 

Can some kind soul give the case reference for Wilson v FCT?

 

Regards

 

Rodders59

 

Here: This is a draft of the judgment to be handed down on ––––– 2000 at ––––– a.m. in Court No –––––. It is confidential to Counsel and Solicitors, but the substance may be communicated to clients not more than one hour before the giving of judgment. The

[don leocornay]

subscribing

[Angel 2222]

Hi,

 

I have been reading various threads with great interest and just wanted to clarify what I have read to be true.

 

I have recently requested a copy of my credit agreement from NatWest who have verbally advised me that they do not have it. I then sent them the formal letter requesting it under the Act. I sent this on 1st October but have not heard anything to date.

 

This is a loan which I took out in 1997 and have been issued with a default. As this was over 6 years ago the default has subsequently been removed from my credit file. I still continue to pay this loan but they are asking that I significantly increase the monthly payment or they will apply for a charging order on my property.

 

Is it true that if they are unable to provide me with a copy of CCA that they cannot enforce this debt? I have found various templates which to send them after 12 working days but I wanted clarification that what they state is correct. Do I need to instruct a solicitor in this regard?

 

I am also pursuing Moorcroft Debt recovery who again have verbally advised that they do not have a copy and again am awaiting a reply to my formal response.

 

Is it true that not only is the debt unenforceable but they have to pay back what you have already paid?

 

I set out below a template for contacting them after 12 working days if no response is received and would be really grateful for confirmation that the contents are correct.

 

..

 

I look forward to hearing any your advice!

 

Many thanks.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Angel 2222

[BelstarBomb]

Hi,

 

I am relatively new to this and the banks way of dealing with things really gets me mad:mad:

 

However, your letters are good to go except for the fact the law had changed earlier this year in that the 30 day period no longer applies, it's just a straight forward 12 working days.

 

Once you send it then the fun will begin. Be aware that if they find a properly executed CCA that they can commence an legal action that see fit.

 

They will probably ignore you and send your case to the DCA's especially as I can't see how they can default you twice!

 

The grey area is the refund of monies paid. There are a lot of companies out there who say that they should be able to get all your premiums paid back but in reality it is probably just the interest payments and that's if you are really lucky and push for it.

 

You will have good days where you are feeling feisty and can fight the world and there will be other days when you think, what have I done. Ultimately, I stay feisty as the law is on my side - they just have to realise that!

 

good luck,

 

BB

[Angel 2222]

Check it out, received a reply from Natwest to my CCA request as follows:

 

 

'We regret to advise that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires.

 

In the circumstances we appreciate that under s.77((4) of the CCA if you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan as they fall due we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan. However we consider that you should continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind that the agreement isn’t void, it remains valid and your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies. S.77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.'

Could someone please advise whether they can still issue a default as it is my understanding that if the debt is in dispute then they are unable to report you to credit reference agencies. I have already defaulted on this but it has been since removed from my credit file. Can you be issued with a default twice?

 

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as to my next move.

 

Angelina

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Angelina,

 

Well they can kiss goodbye to the charging order then!

 

I'm no too sure about defaulting you twice as you have already served your punishment, it would seem a little juvenile to do it again.

 

However, I am waiting to hear back from one bank who has confirmed that they don't have a CCA and therefore cannot enforce it in court as I wrote to their data controller giving him 7 days to cease processing my information efective from the date they defaulted on the CCA request. I quoted the Data Protecion S10 to them. As they have nothing with my signatur eon giving them permission to process my data they are now breaking the law. If it goes before a judge, the data controller is responsible for the information and it would be him that would be fined by the courts. I was advised to write to him as opposed to collections as they obvioulsy have their own agendas even though they all work for the same company!

 

He has 21 days to respond and I will let you know what that is when I get it.

 

BB

[Angel 2222]

Hi there

 

Thanks for your response.

 

Yes they can kiss goodbye to the charging order!

 

I have since received a letter saying that my payment arrangement has come to an end and if I dont significantly increase my monthly payment they will issue ME with a default!

 

Would you be able to tell me exactly where it is stated that:

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring.

 

I have found this on a template but I have taken legal advice and was advised that there was nothing in the Act which states this.

 

With regards to yours, that is interesting, do you think that should be my next move if they persist? Do they really have 7 days to cease prcessing data from the date they defaulted as per the Data Protection Act?

I keep learning more and more!

 

Bye for now.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Angel,

 

A lot of this is down to interpretation however whilst an account is in default, they should not add interest etc. However, the banks try to get around it by saying they have investigated your 'complaint' ie no CCA (how that can be classed as a complaint I don't know!) and that they disagree as they feel they have fulfilled their obligations and therefore as the account is not in dispute in their eyes, they will continue to process info etc. What is in your favour - I think - is the fact that you have already had a default for this debt and I don't think you can be defaulted twice but I don't know for sure. Can anyone answer that for us?

 

My feeling is if it id down to not having the prescribed items etc, but they have your signature, they may argue that they have your permission to still process your info to CRA's. My bone of contention, is the fact they don't have anything in writing at all from the tiem the agreement was taken out or anything since and still feel they have the right to process your info. Laws are there for a reason but the banks don't like it when they are used against them!

 

We are still waiting to hear back from the data controller - he has another two weeks and then we will see. I personally believe that all the info should be removed as they appear to never have had my signature giving them authority ad that's what I will be pushing for.

 

I will keep you posted

 

BB

[Angel 2222]

Hi again!

 

Yes, I have been given conflicting advice about being able to get 2 default notices on one account so not sure about that. I have just put together my response and would like your opinon if thats okay. I feel like Ive spent too long pondering on it and trying to incorporate all the different aspects and I feel Im starting to lose the plot!!!! An honest opinion would be very much appreciated. Here goes!

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT

ACCOUNT NUMBER *****

 

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery (Ref ****) on 1st October 2008 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a £1.00 postal order as the fee payable. This letter was delivered and signed for on 2nd October 2008.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on 23rd October 2008. This account is now in dispute.

 

As you have rightly stated as you are unable to provide the agreement and the law clearly states that you cannot legally enforce this debt but I disagree that you are able to report my continuing default to credit reference agency as I am not defaulting on the agreement. This account is in dispute and will remain so until you have satisfactorily responded to the above. Whilst this account is in dispute, and remains in default – I should remind you that you may:-

 

•Not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

•Not add any further interest or charges to this account.

•Not disclose or pass on this account to any other party/agent.

•Not register any adverse payment history regarding this account with any Credit Reference Agency.

•Not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Be advised, the Consumer Credit Act 1974/2006 makes very clear that, a default may only be issued for breach of a regulated valid agreement. As no such properly executed, enforceable agreement has yet been proven to exist, any attempt at serving default will have no legal standing, and will be vehemently challenged.

 

Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 1998

 

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

 

I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

 

I have taken legal advice on this matter and have been advised that if you pursue this debt then I should report *** to Trading Standards and the OFT and I can assure you that if you attempt to serve a SECOND default notice on me I will not hesitate to take this course of action.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

**

 

Do you think I should add in about possibility of claiming back all the payments made?

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read it - my other half thinks Im obsessed !!! LOL!

 

Cheers.

 

Angel

Edited November 18, 2008 by Angel 2222

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Angel,

 

What a cracking letter! Shame that no one has been able to come back with a definitive yes or no to the 'double default jeopardy'

 

I would send what you have written for the time being but in the meantime, SAR's them to get your last six years statements (This is where your other half will lose the will to live!)

 

There was another thread - Serious problems with IF - where Prangers had paid twice and was given differing amounts from IF as to what he owed. After some persistence on his part, he is now £4000k better off. When you are armed with the info, you will be in a better position to argue the toss over getting money back.

 

What I am learning with this is that it is one step at a time.....

 

Speak to you soon,

 

BB

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Hi again!

 

 

• agency as I am not defaulting on the agreement. This account is in dispute and will remain so until you have satisfactorily responded to the above. Whilst this account is in dispute, and remains in default – - shouldn't this be dispute?
  
• I should remind you that you may:-
  

 

Angel

 

Might be a bit nit picky

[BelstarBomb]

Hi, before I forget, also send the latter to teh data controller of Natwest. As I said previously, i think the departments sometimes work to different agendas and collections don't appear to tell the DC of the full facts.

 

Wilma, I see the above from both ways but I think default is the right way to go.

 

best wishes,

 

BB

[angel_1]

Wow Angel

 

ive just read this all today and i congratulate you, but i do know what you say about the other half, mine thinks i love the pc more than him,,,,oh dear

 

but i reply "My darling, im looking into our rights and that has to be good news,,,,,and he just laughs,,,,

 

but to get a letter actually stating they dont have the agreement would make me smile for the rest of my life,

 

am subscribing and good luck in the rest of your journey,,, can i pinch bits of your letter, got a reply i need to do too

 

ciao for now MAZ

[Angel 2222]

Thanks for all your comments guys!

 

I have sent my letter off and am awaiting a response. In the meantime, I have spoken to a solicitor who reckons I should have a good case to claim back some monies and has offered to do this on a no win-no fee basis. At first I was happy with just getting the debt written off but now I think why not go for it!!

 

Thanks for the tip re the data controller, I will send him a copy also.

 

Another result on another matter is I did a CCA request to Moorcroft who have just written back saying that they are continuing to seek a copy of the credit agreement and until they have done so they have placed the account on hold! Fingers crossed they cant come up with it!

 

I will keep you posted.

 

Cheers.

 

Angela

[Angel 2222]

Maz,

 

Thanks for your comments! Of course, feel free to use bits from my letter - I myself copied them from various templates after hours of searching through !!

 

I know what you mean - I couldnt beleive they actually admitted it!! Lets see if they will surrender after my reply!

 

Good luck with your journey too.

 

Take care,

 

Angela

[tifo]

In the meantime, I have spoken to a solicitor who reckons I should have a good case to claim back some monies and has offered to do this on a no win-no fee basis.

 

I will be interested in speaking to a solicitor who would do cases on a no win no fee basis, i have about 15 to go through after the FOS and want maximum out of the bank. I am claiming charges but the banks also don't have an agreement (or none that the DCA has sent).

 

Could you PM me the details of the solicitor please? He/she could get a lot of cases from me only.

 

Thanks.

[L J]

Hi,

 

I was referred to this web site by a friend. I have creditors raising my interest for the past 5 months. I contacted them and they tell that the rate has been changed. When I ask to speak with someone in charge, they tell to write a letter. I have recieved anything back. I stopped making my payments in two months ago. I've heard about consumers getting charges put on their accounts without authorization. I have also, heard about send a dispute letter to creditor and also, the three credit reporting. To tell you the truth, " there are so many letters I'm not sure which ones to send who. If anyone has the time to point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it.

 

Thank You,

 

LJ

[BelstarBomb]

Just to let you know, got a response from the 'Data Controller' sending me another letter of the T&C's and nothing else and have not responded to my request that they stop processing data as they have no authority or permission. In short, they ignored my request and have supplied nothing. This is getting to be funny!

[Angel 2222]

Hi guys!

 

Just thought I would let you know the latest re the NatWest. Basically I sent them a very detailed letter explaining all the issues about not being able providing me with details of payments made and interest charged, the matter of the conflicting balances and many many more! and guess what? I received a letter on Christmas Eve saying that they have closed the account and will not be demanding any more payments from me! I think they knew they didnt have a leg to stand on as there were just too many descrepancies. I am as you can imagined extremely pleased!

 

Still no word from Moorcroft after saying the account is on hold until they can come up with the agreement. No news is good news! Will keep you posted.

 

How are you getting on with yours - any developments?

 

Good luck and thanks for your help.

 

Angel

[angel_1]

Wow Angel from another angel lol

 

that is fab news,,,,,oh my god, i cant believe the work you have had to put into it, this just seems so sureal, can only imagine you must be feeling so elated

 

 

WELL Done!!!!!!!

 

i will come back later if you dont mind and re read your thread and pick your brains if i may

 

im so very happy for you

 

laters off to do dinner now angel x:D

[Angel 2222]

Thanks Angel!

 

No problem - Im no expert but if I can assist in any way!

 

Enjoy dinner.

 

Angel:)

[mazda2009]

I Have Debts With First Direct 3 Loans 1 Credit Card And Have Been Passed On To A Debt Collector (direct Legal Collection) And Wish To Get A Copy Of My Credit Agreements First Direct Say They Only Keep The Copys For So Long Anybody Any Adive ??????????? I Pay My Debts Though Cccs And They Pay My Creditors