CCA's and Dave against the world !!!

[davefirewalker]

Just had RBS on the phone........and I answered it

 

Seem they are moving on the missold PPI, the chap asked a few questions about how it was sold and why I thought it wasnt suitable.

 

he said He'll get back to me (whatever that means).

 

i'm waiting

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

Hi guys.....

 

just got a reply from RBS re the PPI.........NO! looks like its a complaint to the FOS, FSA, OFT and anyone else who will listen.

 

Got a letter from Equidebt as well........anyone whos been following this thread will know that this one is to do with my MBNA debt that they "bought"

 

If I reply within 7 days they can offer me a "substantial" discount.....hmmmmm

 

Considering that they were recently talking about court action and charging orders............I think that they may have got hold of some information from somewhere

 

Dave

[dpick]

Hi guys.....

 

just got a reply from RBS re the PPI.........NO! looks like its a complaint to the FOS, FSA, OFT and anyone else who will listen.

 

Got a letter from Equidebt as well........anyone whos been following this thread will know that this one is to do with my MBNA debt that they "bought"

 

If I reply within 7 days they can offer me a "substantial" discount.....hmmmmm

 

Considering that they were recently talking about court action and charging orders............I think that they may have got hold of some information from somewhere

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave I am wondering if just maybe MBNA are now actually looking at their agreements and just maybe they are seeing that some are unenforceable, I had MBNA at court waiting for Part 18 disclosure of agreement etc when they suddenly settled out of court, cleared the debt and gave me £1600 as compensation for my trouble. Of course all I got on paper was account cleared and closed we will not be communicating again rubbish. I am gonna keep that letter in a very safe place knowing MBNA.

 

dpick

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Dave!

 

Considering that they were recently talking about court action and charging orders............I think that they may have got hold of some information from somewhere

 

I have a feeling many of them will be coming to the same conclusion, i.e. all of the bankers who have Shredded the Original Statutory Regulated Credit Agreements, and are instead trying to Enforce by relying on Unreadable Frankenstein Harry Black Microfiche Scans, dubious Photoshop Wizardry and/or Creatively blurred Photocopies.

 

That little game has been rumbled. See Practice Direction Part 16 7.3

 

THIS PRACTICE DIRECTION SUPPLEMENTS CPR PART 16

 

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing, and

 

(2) any general conditions of sale incorporated in the contract should also be attached (but where the contract is or the documents constituting the agreement are bulky this practice direction is complied with by attaching or serving only the relevant parts of the contract or documents).

 

As I keep saying like a stuck record...only the Original Agreement will do!

 

No Original banker? Oh dear, then you are up Poop Creek without a Paddle...or a Canoe for that matter!

 

...and what about the Anti-Money Laundering issues! Are they not supposed to keep Originals for 6 Years after an Account has been closed?

 

Cheers,

BRW

[andrew1]

It is a known fact that MBNA shredded many of their agreements so if they don't come up with them, that's probably the reason, no agreement...No debt.....also, anyone with MBNA agreements sold to Cabot should check whether or not they are designed around IRISH law within the agreement too...not sure what that was all about, but they won't stand up in an English or Scottish Court that's for sure as the Cabot Fan Club can prove catagorically - can't we Cabot ?

 

 

Sarah

[davefirewalker]

I have a small problem...........(no not that )......MBNA have a clearly legible and exact copy of the original.........(edit by dave).

 

But it seems from Dpick's post above and the following posts, that ONLY the original will do!............has anyone achieved any success with this approach?

 

To be honest I cant see "most" judges letting you off with that one.....

 

even without an agreement, contract law must come into it somewhere....They can prove that they lent you the money, and that you havent paid it back.............I'm sure that Equity would have a small part to play.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

ps Sarah got your PM and will investigate

 

Dave

Edited July 18, 2008 by davefirewalker

[tifo]

anyone with MBNA agreements sold to Cabot should check whether or not they are designed around IRISH law within the agreement too...not sure what that was all about, but they won't stand up in an English or Scottish Court that's for sure

 

Would that apply to all MBNA agreements, including ones sold to other DCAs?

 

How would i find out if Irish law applies?

[dpick]

I have a small problem...........(no not that )......MBNA have a clearly legible and exact copy of the original.........(edit by dave).

 

But it seems from Dpick's post above and the following posts, that ONLY the original will do!............has anyone achieved any success with this approach?

 

To be honest I cant see "most" judges letting you off with that one.....

 

even without an agreement, contract law must come into it somewhere....They can prove that they lent you the money, and that you havent paid it back.............I'm sure that Equity would have a small part to play.

 

You could wll be right I had already paid back more that I had received from my card.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

ps Sarah got your PM and will investigate

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave as you say the copy must be complete and legible, My copy from MBNA was of the front of an original Bank of Scotland agreement, I suspect that the prescribed terms were on another document or back of the agreement that MBNA did not have this was what I was forcing disclosure of through Part 18 all that MBNA produced to the court originally before Part 18 order was this copy and latest MBNA terms and conditions.

 

dpick:)

[redsue]

dpick - out of interest - had MBNA defaulted you for this BOS card?

[dpick]

dpick - out of interest - had MBNA defaulted you for this BOS card?

 

Hi redsue no MBNA did not default me, sell on to DCA the only thing they did was set their Indian call centre Global advantage to try to collect the arrears not even try to collect the full amount.

 

dpick:)

[andrew1]

Would that apply to all MBNA agreements, including ones sold to other DCAs?

 

How would i find out if Irish law applies?

 

Look at the agreement and see which law it says it relates to English or Irish

[tifo]

Look at the agreement and see which law it says it relates to English or Irish

 

don't have it, DCA only sent an application form.

 

should i ask MBNA directly for the agreement?

 

2 accounts have been sold to DCA, i have a CCJ for each and a charging order on one.

 

last year, MBNA paid me charges back and paid interest at the statement rate. Still chasing them for the PPI which was more than the charges. Application form clearly ticked 'NO' and they've said they have no record of the 'conversation' in which i later agreed to have this.

[andrew1]

don't have it, DCA only sent an application form.

 

should i ask MBNA directly for the agreement?

 

2 accounts have been sold to DCA, i have a CCJ for each and a charging order on one.

 

last year, MBNA paid me charges back and paid interest at the statement rate. Still chasing them for the PPI which was more than the charges. Application form clearly ticked 'NO' and they've said they have no record of the 'conversation' in which i later agreed to have this.

 

Search any documents you have, if not get a copy from MBNA

[BlueSquirrel]

Could I ask you to have a little lookee at this one please?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/152718-help-hsbc-cca-please.html#post1623281 or this one

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/152551-egg-advice-r-subject.html

 

Thanks

[Help48xxx]

Hi Dave-you legend!

 

Sorry to barge in like this but I am really interested to know if it is safe to chase creditors for mis-sold PPi even when you're going through their torture...(sorry, procedure), for recovering debt? Tifo's post got me thinking. I've been holding back a bit on a couple of major PPI claims as I didn't want to throw an almighty spanner in the works.

 

Any ideas?

 

xx

[davefirewalker]

Hi Dave-you legend!

 

Sorry to barge in like this but I am really interested to know if it is safe to chase creditors for mis-sold PPi even when you're going through their torture...(sorry, procedure), for recovering debt? Tifo's post got me thinking. I've been holding back a bit on a couple of major PPI claims as I didn't want to throw an almighty spanner in the works.

 

Any ideas?

 

xx

 

My personal opinion FWIW is that a Claim for missold PPI is a separate issue from a claim for charges. You can of course lump them together, but the best way forward would be individual actions. so nothing wrong in pursuing both at the same time.

 

Dave

[Goldlady]

I have gone for missold PPI against a credit card - it is highly relevant to the amount they are claiming, particularly once you add on the interest they have charged on it as well, and in our case almost wipes the debt out. Stalemate at the moment - think their court claim has been struck out but nothing in writing as yet.

[tendogs]

Evening all, new bloke here and I’ve just finished the entire thread and I’m knackered. Like most of the threads I’ve read this one has helped to move me away from some of my more pessimistic ruminations and encouraged a little hope and changed my perspective. As the estimable Mr firewalker describes at the very beginning of this thread, he hung back for a month or more just reading the posts and absorbing the ideas that are so freely shared amongst you all and I’ve been behaving in a similar fashion. I have a mountain to climb but I might just do it with the help of this forum and so I’ll begin my own thread soon with the first of my battles, (there are many).;-)

And as an aside, if I’m allowed, a note to Dave FW, during the course of this thread you have stated on a few occasions that you might have a manic/depressive thing going on well it seems unlikely from you correspondence that that could be the case, far too comprehensible and not anywhere as chaotic as would be the case if you were bi-polar. It seems that your mood is cycling and, from what you say, it’s predictable and, I have to say, the booze doesn’t help. Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and very good at its job, it makes you depressed. Just go back over the thread and note how many times you remark upon drinking too much followed by a report of your mood retarding. God knows I’m not moralising, I’m a Geordie with a genetic predisposition for brown ale and supporting hopeless football clubs, more to be pitied than scorned eh:!:

Enough with the preaching already! Drink, don’t drink, just stay around long enough to continue the thread, I’m agog and you’ve had me up all night.

Best wishes

Dogs

[BlueSquirrel]

Could the mighty Dave take a look at this please

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/153704-could-someone-take-look.html#post1635763

 

You've been a bit quiet mate, are you OK?

[davefirewalker]

Could the mighty Dave take a look at this please

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/153704-could-someone-take-look.html#post1635763

 

You've been a bit quiet mate, are you OK?

 

Ive had a look at that and posted my thoughts.....

 

yes things have been a bit quiet here......just dealing with barclaycard at the moment.

 

I must admit to being a bit lax...I normally post my goings on as they happen, however things seem to have slowed to a crawl, and not much progress has been made, and it didnt seem to warrant posting. But in thinking about it isnt this the way things normally transpire, they try to wear you down.

 

Had a reply from them on friday stating that the offer of total write off still stands, and he couldnt understand why I am asking him for money...

 

So I wrote a two page letter explaining YET AGAIN his position........

 

but I NEED a holiday (doesnt look like one is going to happen this year) so I reduced the ammount asked for if he pays up straight away (unlikely)

 

Dear Mr barclaycardshark

 

I am in receipt of your letter of the nth July and received here on nth July. The contents of which have been noted.

 

You say I am asking for the return of interest and amounts not specified. On looking through my correspondence, I have found your answer (nth May) to my letter of the nth May in which my claim was laid out, so you must already have knowledge of and realise the basis of my claim and the amount that I am asking for. This again can only be seen as an attempt at trying to confuse, confound and delay the issues pending.

 

You also again state that the comments of the court in the Rankine case are brought to my attention. This case has very little to do with the issues surrounding my claim, and I still see it as an attempt at intimidation. Also I do not appear to be making any claim in relation to S78 of the CCA1974. That section only deals with my right to receive a copy of the agreement, and defaults for non compliance.

 

I however am making claims regarding S60-65 and S127 of the Act along with various other sections.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, I will again lay out my claim. Please read carefully

 

1 you do not have an enforceable agreement. The agreement is missing all the prescribed terms. As such any judge would be precluded from issuing an enforcement order. They would HAVE to find the agreement unenforceable

(please see the consumer credit act 1974 S127(3) )

 

2 Because the agreement is unenforceable and is improperly executed, the terms and conditions have never had legal effect. You have NEVER had the right to charge interest, or to vary the agreement terms, or to do anything else.

 

3 Any payment of interest by me was paid in the mistaken belief that you had a fully compliant and legally enforceable regulated agreement.

 

It was held in Wilson & others v Secretary of State [2003] UKHL40 that a regulated agreement that is missing or has misstated any of the prescribed terms is unenforceable against the debtor, and that the creditor loses all rights to money not already paid. The debtors rights are unaffected and they may continue to enforce the agreement. I suggest that (if you haven't already) you read the whole judgement as it is a bit of an eye opener. Also I suggest that you re-read Francis Bennions thoughts on S.127 as copied here from his website..............

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 127(3)

 

As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company

couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in

the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have

power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed

that nobody’s human rights were infringed.

(your offer of writing of the debt does not now seem quite as generous as at first sight as you are not doing anything that you would not be forced to do in any case)

 

It was also found in Sempra Metals v HMRC that restitution is now available in common law for money paid in mistake and that compound interest is available as a just remedy for the time value of the money lost

 

Therefore..........I now claim the return of said interest, totalling £4k+ this being the sum of the interest debited to the account, and interest on that compounded at your standard monthly rate of 1.527% (calculated on a daily basis) Please see attached schedule.

 

I have used the formula (1+rate)^time x amount, for the compound interest element

 

(The calculations are not very accurate, but are near enough. They are an under-estimate rather than an over. If you have the facility to do it properly could you please recalculate it and let me have a copy.)

 

The compound interest on the principal amount of £4k+ stands at £9k+ giving a total claim of £13k+ (nearly £14k) this amount is growing on a daily basis!

 

Also as the agreement is improperly executed and unenforceable any rights you may have thought you had to pass my data onto third parties do not exist, and any data passed to credit reference agencies should be withdrawn in that not only is it wholly inaccurate but would cause real and tangible harm and be of detriment to myself. You have previously received numerous request under S10 of the Data Protection Act 1998, to stop processing and not to start processing data or to pass that data on to third parties. I hope that you have acted upon those requests. To avoid the expense and time involved in going to court I will be prepared to accept 60% of what is now claimed (£8k+). on condition that a cheque is forwarded immediately However if you do not accept these terms I shall pursue you for the full amount

 

I expect a reply or a cheque by return

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

So thats the state of play at the moment...just waiting for a reply before i take the BIG plunge

 

rgds to all

 

Dave

Edited July 29, 2008 by davefirewalker

[davefirewalker]

Evening all, new bloke here and I’ve just finished the entire thread and I’m knackered. Like most of the threads I’ve read this one has helped to move me away from some of my more pessimistic ruminations and encouraged a little hope and changed my perspective. As the estimable Mr firewalker describes at the very beginning of this thread, he hung back for a month or more just reading the posts and absorbing the ideas that are so freely shared amongst you all and I’ve been behaving in a similar fashion. I have a mountain to climb but I might just do it with the help of this forum and so I’ll begin my own thread soon with the first of my battles, (there are many).;-)

And as an aside, if I’m allowed, a note to Dave FW, during the course of this thread you have stated on a few occasions that you might have a manic/depressive thing going on well it seems unlikely from you correspondence that that could be the case, far too comprehensible and not anywhere as chaotic as would be the case if you were bi-polar. It seems that your mood is cycling and, from what you say, it’s predictable and, I have to say, the booze doesn’t help. Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and very good at its job, it makes you depressed. Just go back over the thread and note how many times you remark upon drinking too much followed by a report of your mood retarding. God knows I’m not moralising, I’m a Geordie with a genetic predisposition for brown ale and supporting hopeless football clubs, more to be pitied than scorned eh:!:

Enough with the preaching already! Drink, don’t drink, just stay around long enough to continue the thread, I’m agog and you’ve had me up all night.

Best wishes

Dogs

 

Thanks for the "compliments" this thread has certainley brought some interesting ideas to the surface.....and yes I know my drinking doesn't help...it seems to at the time though.

 

However and on a more personal note I seem to be sliding back down to a more deppresive state over the last few weeks. I need to buck myself up.

 

This thread just started out as a sort of personal "blog" so I could keep track of what was going on and to take onboard new ideas...it sort of ballooned from there

 

I will try to be around for a little while longer

 

Dave

[BlueSquirrel]

It isn't always easy to keep the motivation going is it? I am sure you will get it back. This is a fab thread. Sending supportive vibes

[Help48xxx]

Hi Dave,

 

nice to hear you're still keeping up the fight!

 

You're an inspiration to me, and have helped me enormously. We all get our down times, so just look after you and keep doing your stuff. I doubt there are many on here that don't succumb to depression in any form when dealing with debt and the onslaught of creditors, dca's and the other riff-raff that get in on our misery.

 

I still think you're a legend!

 

Best wishes mate,

 

xx

[stripper]

Dave,

We are all behind you mate.You keep in there and don't let the barstewards get you down.

Read you soon Dave.

[johnaydan]

well keep going Dave... all the best