Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[Bog]

Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong thread (if it is, could a Moderator kindly move it to the correct place )

 

After I CCA Barclaycard I have received a copy of my original application form (Below) and nothing else.

 

 

Am I right in saying that this in not an enforcable signed credit agreement, but just an application form. Or am I barking up the wrong tree

[robcag]

Hi Bog

 

Unfortunately what you have uploaded is far too small for anybody to read. You need to go to photobucket.com and open a free account, then upload your image there and link back to it here.

 

That way you should be able to let people on here see a bigger and better image, and no doubt you will then get some opinions on it.

 

Rob

[Bog]

Hi Bog

 

Unfortunately what you have uploaded is far too small for anybody to read. You need to go to photobucket.com and open a free account, then upload your image there and link back to it here.

 

That way you should be able to let people on here see a bigger and better image, and no doubt you will then get some opinions on it.

 

Rob

 

Done - Now much bigger!

 

Cheers for the info!

[car2403]

Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong thread (if it is, could a Moderator kindly move it to the correct place )

 

After I CCA Barclaycard I have received a copy of my original application form (Below) and nothing else.

 

 

Am I right in saying that this in not an enforcable signed credit agreement, but just an application form. Or am I barking up the wrong tree

 

There are some issues with this agreement - if you start your own thread, then post a link to it back here, I'll share it with you there;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[Bog]

There are some issues with this agreement - if you start your own thread, then post a link to it back here, I'll share it with you there;

 

Thanks Car2403, new thread started here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/132464-barclaycard-enforcable-credit-agrreement.html#post1393784

[MBciti]

Hi

 

I have a problem with Citi Cards and requested a copy of the consumer credit agreement I sent the first request (as outlined by this site - thanks guys) on the 22nd september 2007 and included the £1 cheque as advised.

 

They failed to respond so i sent another request on the 11th of Oct 2007 with another £1 cheque, still no response, so I sent a 'default' letter (again as outlined on this site) on the 25th October 2007. I then sent them a Subject Access Request on the 19th December, to which they have not responded. But, they finally sent a copy of my original application form on the 28th February 2008. shown below...

 

They have charged me additional charges and interest during the period of default, and refused to refund it. I have not paid a penny on the account since it went into default. And as they have to refused to refund the additional charges and interest I have refered the matter to FOS.

 

 

 

My question are;

 

- does the application form constitute a Consumer Credit Agreement?

- what are my options regarding the timings of their response and further possible action?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help

[car2403]

 

My question are;

 

- does the application form constitute a Consumer Credit Agreement?

- what are my options regarding the timings of their response and further possible action?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help

 

This looks enforceable to me, MBciti. The prescribed and required terms are there, (credit limit, interest rates and repayments) so the agreement is properly executed.

 

The credit limit isn't on the agreement, but it does say how it will be determined and that you will be told. (Usually happens on your statement)

 

The only thing you could argue is that the terms & conditions don't form part of the agreement, as there are no "links" (usually sequential reference numbers) that show the pages are one document. This is dodgy, as they could show up with the original in Court and the Judge will have to enforce it if that happens and the terms are in the same document.

 

As for their "default", that default only continues while the agreement hasn't been provided - now they've given it to you, there is no "default", even though they've not stuck to the prescribed period.

 

This has no effect on charges/interest applied during that failure.

 

The 2006 Act has a requirement for provision of statements regularly, without which no interest/charges can be applied to the account until they are provided - this wasn't part of the 1974 Act, which regulates your agreement, however. You could use this to part defend enforcement of the entire balance, using the 2006 Act requirements as being "in the spirit of the law", as the 1974 Act does say they can't enforce while in default - but there is no direct legislation covering this, so you're relying on getting a sympathetic Judge.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

RE POST 531

 

 

where's the heading at the top of the APPLICATION FORM about the CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 ETC ETC ....

 

IT SHOULD BE WHERE IT SAYS " NO OTHER GOLD CARD............."

[adamb76]

Sent a cca request to debitas(acting for capital 1) on the 18th feb,recorded delivery and with a £1 postal order,I've now received a letter from them(dated 21 february) saying that because i have not called them or make a payment they are sending an 'agent' to my home in the next 7 days to"discuss my debt"!the cca request went to a PO box so i cant confirm it has been delivered,I do have a fax number for them and i wondered what course of action i should take,any ideas? i have to say i am a bit worried about some no-neck turning up on my door demading money:(

[car2403]

Sent a cca request to debitas(acting for capital 1) on the 18th feb,recorded delivery and with a £1 postal order,I've now received a letter from them(dated 21 february) saying that because i have not called them or make a payment they are sending an 'agent' to my home in the next 7 days to"discuss my debt"!the cca request went to a PO box so i cant confirm it has been delivered,I do have a fax number for them and i wondered what course of action i should take,any ideas? i have to say i am a bit worried about some no-neck turning up on my door demading money:(

 

Send them this;

 

I refer to your letter dated **/**/****.

 

You will see from your files that this account is “in dispute”, as I wrote to you in terms of the dispute that I have in a letter dated **/**/****.

 

I am writing to inform you that this dispute still stands and has not been resolved.

 

As this account is in dispute and you were aware of this and are continuing to carry out collection activity, I now feel that you are in breach of your obligations under;

§

The Office of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines;

o

“Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

§

The Banking Code;

o

“not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

§

Your Consumer Credit License

 

As such, I must ask you to take notice that you must cease all collection activity with immediate effect. The alleged credit agreement you are relying on does not provide you with permission to continue to contact me regarding this account, either by post or by personal contact, be that by telephone or visits to my property. In fact, OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court.

 

I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined in this letter. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this, as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police, to whom I will make a formal statement regarding your conduct given I have already warned you your behaviour causes me to feel harassed.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by calling me, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded and used as evidence in any further formal complaint.

 

Yours faithfully

 

If they do turn up, tell them to wait a moment, close the door then call the Police.

 

If they write to you again, without providing an agreement, contact your local Police station, showing them a copy of your letter (you'll need to get proof of postage to confirm it was sent) along with their letter and make a statement complaining about harrassment.

 

Either way, the Police are duty bound to investigate.

 

I have a feeling you'll either receive a copy of the agreement or you won't hear from them again.

[adamb76]

Thanks car! will send this tomorrow and fax it to them as well!i'm happy to work out a repayment plan with this lot once i see they actually own the debt,not too much to ask you'd think....

[adamb76]

just seen on the bottom of the lettr that debitas is a trading name of capital 1,you'd think they would have no problem sending me a copy of my credit agreement would you?

[gh2008]

RE POST 531

 

 

where's the heading at the top of the APPLICATION FORM about the CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 ETC ETC ....

 

IT SHOULD BE WHERE IT SAYS " NO OTHER GOLD CARD............."

 

IMHO that would make it incorrectly executed, but not irredeemably unenforceable, so if they took it to Court a Judge could easily enforce it

[MBciti]

To be honest, I thought as mine was an application for credit form, not a consumer credit agreement, it would not meet the requirements of a consumer credit agreement... So I am wrong? and they could use this in court to enforce the debt?

[gh2008]

To be honest, I thought as mine was an application for credit form, not a consumer credit agreement, it would not meet the requirements of a consumer credit agreement... So I am wrong? and they could use this in court to enforce the debt?

 

To the best of my knowledge - If the document you & the creditor signed contains all the prescribed terms correctly then it can be enforced by a Court.

 

For more info http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html#post1005260

 

The box you signed says it is an agreement, and the small print prior to the signature box refers you to the terms & conditions. The Terms & Conditions seem to contain the prescribed terms

Now assuming that the 2 pages you've posted are part of the same document then, it does look as though it could be enforced with a Court Order.

 

 

For a better discussion, start your own thread & post a link here.

[Soo43]

cOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS LOAN AGREEMENT IS ENFORCEABLE PLEASE?????

 

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh29/Soo43_photos/agreementsentbynorthernrock.jpg

[car2403]

cOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS LOAN AGREEMENT IS ENFORCEABLE PLEASE?????

 

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh29/Soo43_photos/agreementsentbynorthernrock.jpg

 

I think unenforceable, as the rate of interest is missing. The APR is shown, but that includes fees, compound interest, etc, so isn't a specific rate of interest applied to the account. As rate of interest is a prescribed term, which is missing, the agreement is unenforceable, IMHO.

[MBciti]

I have started a thread here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-knowledge/132459-valid-consumer-credit-agreement.html#post1396313

[Soo43]

I think unenforceable, as the rate of interest is missing. The APR is shown, but that includes fees, compound interest, etc, so isn't a specific rate of interest applied to the account. As rate of interest is a prescribed term, which is missing, the agreement is unenforceable, IMHO.

 

thanks car2403 - I didnt get any terms or conditions with it either - which section should i quote then when i argue my point with them as i have to go to court next week

[car2403]

s.77/s.78 and the Consumer Credit (Agreement) Regulations (1983).

 

Have you a thread on this claim, Soo?

[adtheladuk1]

How trustworthy is your bank?

 

Phantom loans, 'recreating' paperwork, bringing dozens of lost documents back to life

 

How trustworthy is your bank? | Money | The Guardian

 

 

intresting read regarding cca

 

ad:)

[car2403]

How trustworthy is your bank?

 

Phantom loans, 'recreating' paperwork, bringing dozens of lost documents back to life

 

How trustworthy is your bank? | Money | The Guardian

 

 

intresting read regarding cca

 

ad:)

 

You'll find the whole case outlined on CAG; (including several follow up stories)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/11427-walton-rbos.html (read from last 10 pages or so to skip the preliminary details)

[Soo43]

s.77/s.78 and the Consumer Credit (Agreement) Regulations (1983).

 

Have you a thread on this claim, Soo?

 

information is here not sure if it is my thread - get a little confused due to my illness - thanks for help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131464-northern-rock-ccj-interim.html

[Valhalla]

Hello,

 

Can someone please clarify a point for me please ? The last post on this subject was dated early last year and I'm not sure if any legislation has been updated since then.

 

I have requested, from Vanquis , a copy of the original signed credit card application. Amongst other things I wanted to see if it has been signed by or on behalf on the bank, as I believe is required under the CCA 1974

 

In reply they have sent a copy of a sample application form ( i.e. no details filled in at all ) and they state

 

Quote

 

"In satisfaction of your request made under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a copy of the credit agreement, I enclose a copy of the application form which would have been completed by you together with a copy of the terms and conditions referred to in it "( the T & C are on a seperate document - my brackets)

 

"We regard this as meeting our obligation under section 78 of the Act 1974 to provide you with a true copy of the executed agreement. On their proper construction, that section and Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents ) Regulations 1983 ( 1983 S.I. No. 1553 ) do not require us to provide you with a copy of the executed agreement between us in the form of a photcopy of that document.

 

Inrespective of the above, you are still obligated to make payments to the above account "....... etc etc etc

 

Unquote

 

Is it true that they do not have to provide a copy of the executed agreement ? How should I respond if it's a ) true b ) untrue /

 

Thanks in anticipation of your comments

 

Valhalla

[car2403]

Is it true that they do not have to provide a copy of the executed agreement ? How should I respond if it's a ) true b ) untrue

 

No, they have to provide a true copy of the agreement to demonstrate it complies with the legislation.

 

Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

 

Then start your own thread, keeping it updated;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html