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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974


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Clearly they want to benefit financially from their success & that would be OK by me if it helps frustrate the money lenders but having visited their site they do seem to be charging a lot of money for their service - They are, unless I'm mistaken, asking for 20% of the debt up front - I find this a little difficult to understand as those who would use such a service are usually desperately short of money & need to get the Credit Card Companies or their DCA's of their backs & even if they win there are no incoming funds to pay their fee merely the cancellation of outstanding ones - Am I mistaken?

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I agree Jonchris it is expensive if you feel comfortable enough to take these people on yourself.

However some people arent as confident as you or I.

The important point is that this judgement will eventual come out and it will be of benefit to us all once it gets on here.

The Credit Companies must be frantic..Shame:D

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I have contemplated trying to make a living out of helping people with debt problems but the one big question is 'how do you get paid?'. Some of the friends I have helped have suggested I should - but I could not take money from someone who is already up the creek!! I know there is Legal Aid available but it is an extremely low rate, in comparison to criminal and even family matters, and would probably not even cover the cost of an initial interview.

 

I also suspect that if someone can afford 20% to get their debts written off then they are not suffering from genuine hardship and suspect that most of their clients will be people who can easily afford to pay their debts but choose not to.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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It would be OK by me too if it cuts the chase and resolves things quickly and cleanly but would we still have to put up with the harrassmant from the cc and dca's.

 

We could pay with a card that has some credit left on it, then get that one written off last lol.

 

The 20% fee is unfair and out of reach for most, some would pay only £200 where I would have to pay £2000 for the same service.

 

Honey

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I agree Jonchris it is expensive if you feel comfortable enough to take these people on yourself.

However some people arent as confident as you or I.

The important point is that this judgement will eventual come out and it will be of benefit to us all once it gets on here.

The Credit Companies must be frantic..Shame:D

 

I agree but I feel your missing the point & that is I'm not against people making profits especially for a good service - I just find it difficult to understand how they think those desperately fighting the money lenders will have any money to pay their advance fees either at the outset or the end - particularly when there is no payoff other than the cancellation of outstanding debt

 

Of course it may be that they hope to appeal to those who are not in financial difficulties but who only want to have their debts written off - in which case the best of luck to them - my only concern is that such behaviour from debtors who are NOT in trouble as a result of the credit cards companies conduct may cause the debtors who ARE fighting a just cause to lose what public sympathy there is - We could have an appalling scenario where the Credit Card Companies are seen as the victims - Now that would be terrible would it not

 

Finally I think would should remember that if they hadn't received pro bono (free) assistance via CAB it's doubtful they would have been able to take their fight to appeal

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I agree entirely Joncris - but then you have one rule for the rich and one for the poor!!! Having said that I would never have gone down the CCA route had I been in a position to pay my debts - I paid them all dutifully for many years until the you know what hit the fan.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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We could have an appalling scenario where the Credit Card Companies are seen as the victims - Now that would be terrible would it not.

 

Yes and No

 

People rarely feel sorry for SHARKS!.........LOL

 

hsbcfiddled

 

No so - If they go to this government bleating that the consumers are ripping THEM off this government will, as has already been demonstrated by their removal of section 127 of the CCA as a direct result of Wilson, be only to ready to change the legislation again to suit the money lenders.

 

The removal of 127 was/is the greatest betrayal of the consumer ever perpetrated by a government.

 

Aklso don't forget their squalid bill allowing debt collectors to enter peoples homes by force & assualt them

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While agreeing to some extent about the removal of S127 (3) the government's hands were tied as a result of a court decision. That section of the CCA was ruled incompatible with the Human Rights Act so the Govt had to remove it. But, if you read the European Consumer Credit directive it says that agreements have to be in writing and the prescribed term is the APR. So scope for a little more conflict yet!

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I have contemplated trying to make a living out of helping people with debt problems but the one big question is 'how do you get paid?'. Some of the friends I have helped have suggested I should - but I could not take money from someone who is already up the creek!! I know there is Legal Aid available but it is an extremely low rate, in comparison to criminal and even family matters, and would probably not even cover the cost of an initial interview.

 

I also suspect that if someone can afford 20% to get their debts written off then they are not suffering from genuine hardship and suspect that most of their clients will be people who can easily afford to pay their debts but choose not to.

 

Er, wouldn't you be "paid" by including your costs in the claim amount? ;)

 

I can just see it now - "No win, no fee", "you keep 100% of your compensation" and all that!

 

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You would if it was for example reclaiming PPI and other unlawful charges, however if you succeeded in getting someone's cards written off it is unlikely you could claim costs, and also presumably if you helped someone fill in a bankruptcy petition you could not ask the OR for costs:p. As someone said above you are reducing the amount the client has to pay out each month but they are not actually gaining anything if they couldn't afford it in the first place.

 

I will be interested to see how our new friends get on!

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Hard to believe that a judgement such as the one that credit card killers talk about would be kept a secret.It doesn't sound healthy - there is something not right - to put it mildly 'I smell a rat' Something of such major proportions is definitely going to come to the fore and it is just a matter of time before we find out and yes it is going to have the same momentum as bank charges and this company just want to cash in on other people's misery. The fees are 20% at 0% interest which they say are just similar to making one's minimum payment on their credit cards - Yeah right mate those who are struggling are going to find this payment on the nearest tree. Well I am sorry but they are definitely not going to be able to profit from our misery.

 

After joining here and being constantly encouraged by RobCAG and GoldLady, Honey and everybody else i wouldn't go down that route. I want to learn through all of you and together we should be able to forge a better deal for ourselves.

 

I just feel good today and thanks to all of you for being there and just being who you are. No nonsense fair play at all times.

 

Ruby

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Hard to believe that a judgement such as the one that credit card killers talk about would be kept a secret.It doesn't sound healthy - there is something not right - to put it mildly 'I smell a rat' Something of such major proportions is definitely going to come to the fore and it is just a matter of time before we find out and yes it is going to have the same momentum as bank charges and this company just want to cash in on other people's misery. The fees are 20% at 0% interest which they say are just similar to making one's minimum payment on their credit cards - Yeah right mate those who are struggling are going to find this payment on the nearest tree. Well I am sorry but they are definitely not going to be able to profit from our misery.

 

After joining here and being constantly encouraged by RobCAG and GoldLady, Honey and everybody else i wouldn't go down that route. I want to learn through all of you and together we should be able to forge a better deal for ourselves.

 

I just feel good today and thanks to all of you for being there and just being who you are. No nonsense fair play at all times.

 

Ruby

 

Just because Judgment was entered doesn't mean that the Court decided the issues though, does it? It's entirely possible that both parties "agreed" through the Court (by Consent/Tomlin Order, for example) to settle part/all of the case through the formal process of having a Judge seal an order, such order containing a confidentiality clause?

 

I can't see how, otherwise, such Judgment can be entered that isn't publicly recorded, as Court Judgments are a matter of public record once entered.

 

I could be wrong and I'm sure someone can correct me if I am...

 

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Well I've had a rummage and the Rankine's are known for their "originality" if nothing else...

 

Pay per view...

PAY PER PEW | Sunday Mirror | Find Articles at BNET.com

 

The Rankine's position as "Independent Financial Advisors"

Time To End Unfair Bank Charges

 

And there is a case that went to court in 2005 that isn't listed and I'm waiting for a response from that one.

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While agreeing to some extent about the removal of S127 (3) the government's hands were tied as a result of a court decision. That section of the CCA was ruled incompatible with the Human Rights Act so the Govt had to remove it. But, if you read the European Consumer Credit directive it says that agreements have to be in writing and the prescribed term is the APR. So scope for a little more conflict yet!

 

I strongly disagree as do many lawyers who act on behalf of consumers

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hello, I,ve not recieved anything from my request to a DCA for the CCA It has past the time limit , I have informed them of this with the correct letter . What happens now? They are trying to contact me by phone now . I,m not answering ! cheers chaps

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hello, I,ve not recieved anything from my request to a DCA for the CCA It has past the time limit , I have informed them of this with the correct letter . What happens now? They are trying to contact me by phone now . I,m not answering ! cheers chaps

 

 

When did you CCA them?

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hello, I,ve not recieved anything from my request to a DCA for the CCA It has past the time limit , I have informed them of this with the correct letter . What happens now? They are trying to contact me by phone now . I,m not answering ! cheers chaps

 

Tell them to stop calling you with the harrassment letter - see here for my version;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/110148-car2403-ge-capial-bank.html#post1275815 (amend to suit)

 

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It,s been the required time , 12 days + month,+ 5 days !

 

 

Thats good then.

My advice just sit tight- you have done all you need to do.

No need to make any payments.

 

Although....You could summon up the strength to phone them and ask them-

Where is the copy of the agreement that I requested?

Do not phone me again until you have found the agreement!

Do not request money from me!

If you intend to take me to court MAKE SURE YOU BRING THE AGREEMENT WITH YOU.

Debt is unenforceable until you have produced the agreement!

 

You could add 'put that in your pipe etc' ....maybe not...we dont want to be accused of falling to their HIGH STANDARDS....not!

Go on Phone them You will feel better- just dont answer their questions only with yours- repeat them if neccessary- They hate that-then drop the phone and dont take their call backs

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My advice is to NOT phone them, as it will effect you more than it will them - they are trained to ignore your disputes and press you for payment. Plus, you don't want to say anything that will effect your claim/defence at a later stage, if it comes to that.

 

If you want them to stop calling, send the harrassment letter, otherwise the next move is theirs - not yours.

 

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Like I said. It depends on how confident you feel.

If you feel strong enough and confident enough to take them on then its up to you.

If you dont answer their questions then there is nothing that you have agreed to.

 

If you dont want to phone - then put the same questions in writing instead.

 

Car's advice is good - I enjoy taking them on though.

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I can see what you mean, but you don't want to get sucked in to a conversation and end up acknowledging the debt at this stage, IMHO.

 

"Documentation beats conversation" is my moto when dealing with these things - don't waste your time speaking to the monkey on the phone when you get to deal with the organ grinder if they continue to pursue a, now unenforceable, debt.

 

You're wicked hsbcfiddled! ;)

 

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