CCA Agreements (Mark II) PLUS any other topic

[santos ehelper]

How's that?

 

P

 

Looks fine but I am sending them all together so will remove ref to date of letter.

 

If you would be so kind as to have a shuffty at my dpa request I will post them off today.

 

Mr Santos Ehelper

address

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxx

Data Controller: BANK LTD

address

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

19th April 2007

Account In Dispute

Data Protection Act disclosure request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since, xxxx. Alternatively a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable. Furthermore please provide me with a copy of my contract with you, and a copy of my original terms and conditions. I make this request Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.00 (postal order number 1xxxxx) which is to be used as the fee to access ALL data held by BANK LTD about myself and not credited to my account which is now In Dispute. You should be fully aware of your statutory obligations under the data protection act and that any failure to comply to this request could result in an investigation from the Information Commissioners Office. You have 40 days in which to comply.

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them.

Such submissions from yourselves, that the relevant data is now only held on Microfiche in date order and can only be provided at extra cost etc is unacceptable as it implies that such data is nonetheless retrievable. In these circumstances, as opposed to copies of statements for the micro-fiched period, I will accept a detailed breakdown of all charges levied to my account in date order.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Santos Ehelper

 

[ladybird17]

excellente! go, go!

[Peterbard]

I think the point peter is trying to make is that the agreement has wrong data on it......theyre charging you £4720 and saying that your loan comes to £4545.95. a difference of £174.05

 

wrong data means improperly executed

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave#

 

Yes sorry to be oblique and not following up i was dragged of to hospital for a coulple of days, OK now but trying to catch up.

 

Regards

Peter

[Perseus]

Looks fine but I am sending them all together so will remove ref to date of letter.

 

If you would be so kind as to have a shuffty at my dpa request I will post them off today.

 

Mr Santos Ehelper

address

Xxxxxx

Xxxxxx

 

Data Controller: BANK LTD

address

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

19th April 2007

 

Account In Dispute

 

Data Protection Act disclosure request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account since, xxxx. Alternatively a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable. Furthermore please provide me with a true copy of the executed agreement with you, and a copy of my original terms and conditions. I make these requests Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77-78 and including the right of subject access under these acts.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

I further request copies of any transcripted logs regarding telephone calls made to or from me, and any/all details regarding any disclosures made or communications with any third party in relation to my business with you, along with details of any legal action past or present regarding me by you.

I enclose the statutory maximum fees of £10.00 & £1.00 (postal order numbers 1xxxxx) which is to be used as the fee to access ALL data held by BANK LTD about myself and not credited to my account which is now In Dispute. You should be fully aware of your statutory obligations under the data protection act and that any failure to comply to this request could result in an investigation from the Information Commissioners Office. You have 40 days in which to comply.

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them.

Any such submissions from yourselves, that the relevant data is now only held on Microfiche in date order and can only be provided at extra cost etc is unacceptable as it implies that such data is nonetheless retrievable. In these circumstances, as opposed to copies of statements for the micro-fiched period, I will accept a detailed breakdown of all charges levied to my account in date order.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Santos Ehelper

 

 

Hi Santos

 

i hope you don't mind the suggestions.

If you're asking for a copy of the 'contract', that's a CCA request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77-78/79, and requires a further £1 fee.

The CCA rqst is allowed to take a max of 12 working days.

Just to let you know the differing timescales!

 

Hope all is ok

 

Perseus

[santos ehelper]

Hi Perseus

 

To late for the changes I was eager to get it in the post today and completely forgot about the cca request charge even though I also got a £1.00 postal order with the £10.00 one..DOH!!!!

 

Will have to see what happens, I was rushing to put the account in dispute before the deadline of the DN.

 

Note to self, "Calm down dear its only a commercial" as Michael Winner says on the telly

 

Santos

[Bigmac versus]

Most of the terms and conditions were very faint so have typed them up, but wont help.

[M.Willows]

Hi

 

Is the 'copy' agreement you have received from CapOne just the usual application form type with the T&Cs in a different document/leaflet?

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi Pam

Just a box really

Credit Card Agreement

Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Please issue me with a Capital One Credit card and pin

Then goes on to say about if my application is accepted and I have read all the terms and conditons,and credit scoring but I have signed and dated and they have signed, terms and conditions on seperate piece of paper , their address is not on the agreement and no overleaf terms either as stated in the agreement only a seperate sheet of terms and conditions, but I have found my original terms and conditions but not my agreement so I cannot compare both.

Thanks for reading

[Bigmac versus]

Will need to get another copy before posting up, bet they done this deliberately.

[Tigs33]

I have only received the court claim which I am willing to defend, however due to my work I cannot afford to have a CCJ logded against me, but I understand that if I lost in court as long as I paid within 30 days no ccj would be entered onto my credit file??? can somebody confirm this???

 

 

Can anybody confirm this for me?? I would like to put a defence in at the weekend.

[elsinore]

Can anybody confirm this for me?? I would like to put a defence in at the weekend.

 

 

County Court Judgment (CCJ) records

Unless you pay the full amount of the judgment within one month, your CCJ will be recorded on the Register of County Court Judgments for six years.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/CourtClaimsAndBankruptcy/DG_10013083

 

Els

[NitrousOxide]

Hi,

Going to open a whole can of worms again.

If your agreement has actually ended surely you are no longer bound by it's terms and conditions. When a creditor sells on your debt and the new owner charges interest you should by all rights get a new set of T&C's?

I've seen debts sold on where the interest is stupidly high and at a daily rate. They should either stick to what the CCA had in it's terms or send you a new set with the new interest rate. Knowing the interest rate is quite important from a legal standpoint.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Pam

Just a box really

Credit Card Agreement

Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Please issue me with a Capital One Credit card and pin

Then goes on to say about if my application is accepted and I have read all the terms and conditons,and credit scoring but I have signed and dated and they have signed, terms and conditions on seperate piece of paper , their address is not on the agreement and no overleaf terms either as stated in the agreement only a seperate sheet of terms and conditions, but I have found my original terms and conditions but not my agreement so I cannot compare both.

Thanks for reading

 

Hi

 

I suggest sending them this:

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974.

 

However, I made a request to you on .... for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form.

 

A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights.

 

I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

Yours etc.

 

This gives them a 2nd chance to come up with something that actually might resemble a credit agreement (just in case they do have one! ) and also (subtly) lets them know YOU know what is required!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi,

Going to open a whole can of worms again.

If your agreement has actually ended surely you are no longer bound by it's terms and conditions. When a creditor sells on your debt and the new owner charges interest you should by all rights get a new set of T&C's?

I've seen debts sold on where the interest is stupidly high and at a daily rate. They should either stick to what the CCA had in it's terms or send you a new set with the new interest rate. Knowing the interest rate is quite important from a legal standpoint.

 

Hi

 

A creditor is entitled to 'terminate' your agreement and then sell the debt on if he chooses. Termination does not mean cancellation and the new owner of any debt under a credit agreement cannot charge interest above the rate stipulated in the agreement.

 

They are also not allowed to make charges for collection etc. either unless these are expressly provided for in the credit agreement or in a separate agreement made between the new owner and the debtor and where consideration is given to the debtor in exchange for his agreement to the charges.

 

Regards, Pam

[M.Willows]

Hi Pam

 

Many thanks will do this to MBNA and Capital as MBNA have sent a similar thing not even mentioning the total amount payable etc

[NitrousOxide]

Hi

 

A creditor is entitled to 'terminate' your agreement and then sell the debt on if he chooses. Termination does not mean cancellation and the new owner of any debt under a credit agreement cannot charge interest above the rate stipulated in the agreement.

 

They are also not allowed to make charges for collection etc. either unless these are expressly provided for in the credit agreement or in a separate agreement made between the new owner and the debtor and where consideration is given to the debtor in exchange for his agreement to the charges.

 

Regards, Pam

Thankyou,

That's interesting to know, especially to other folks as well who are being charged high interest rates. I know CapQuest do this and a lot of people on here have debts with them.

In all honesty I suppose this would be a good time to have you CCA as it states your APR.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Just to show I'm not talking out of my [****]

 

From the CCA:

 

93 Interest not to be increased on default

The debtor under a regulated consumer credit agreement shall not be obliged to pay interest on sums which, in breach of the agreement, are unpaid by him at a rate—

(a) where the total charge for credit includes an item in respect of interest, exceeding the rate of that interest, or

(b) in any other case, exceeding what would be the rate of the total charge for credit if any items included in the total charge for credit by virtue of section 20(2) were disregarded.

 

 

The bit about collection charges is explained in the OFT guidelines on debt collection 2003:

 

Charging for debt collection

 

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

a. claiming collection costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual or other legal provision

 

b. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there is no contractual provision

 

c. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default

 

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

 

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

 

 

Regards, Pam

[robert_harper_2000]

Is this the place to upload cca and have others check through? oh and what is the website that allows you to link to scanned cca?

 

Thanks!

[redsue]

photobucket.com

[robert_harper_2000]

The cca does look in order to me but I thought it would give you brains some to do! lol

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/robert_harper_2000/Sainsburys.jpg

[InKogneeToh]

The cca does look in order to me but I thought it would give you brains some to do! lol

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/robert_harper_2000/Sainsburys.jpg

 

Hi

 

Unfortunately all the prescribed terms are there and signatures etc. You may want to check the maths to see if that is correct and I can't see the statement about your general rights under the CCA. If this copy mentions separate T&Cs or 'overleaf' then you may want to request these. The absolute omission of the statement of rights would make the agreement improperly executed and enforceable on an order of the court only.

 

You would have to find out what, if anything, was on the reverse of the agreement but IMO it's not very likely that a court would deny enforcement altogether. It might possibly discharge a bit of the debt to 'punish' the creditor but how much by is an unknown!

 

Regards, Pam

[physicsgraduate]

Hey Pam, did you get any closer to resolving my query?

 

PG

[InKogneeToh]

Thanks Pam,

 

I actioned both but my questioned is specifically related to the CCA s77/78 whereupon the DCA have supplied the documents within the specified time, but failed to supply ALL copies. It is with the student loan company whom i failed to defer my loan with for just over 1 year, and the DCA are SmLC. My case is pre 1998 so falls within the jurisdiction of the CCA. For some reason they don't hold my initial contract of 1990 on their computer system, but they supplied 91, 92 and 93. The reference number on the letters of demand are for the 1990 contract.

 

Do you think that they have they broken the law?

 

PG

 

Hi

 

I am so sorry that I didn't answer this one properly!

 

I go spinning about on the site sometimes and get involved in all sorts of issues and forget where I should have been! :o

 

Anyway, they have not broken any law. If they are demanding payment of an agreement made in 1990, but then do not supply a copy of that agreement within the required time scale under a CCA s77/78 request then they are not allowed to enforce it for as long as they still fail to comply.

 

But are these all completely separate agreements? If so, have you repaid all but the 1990 one and if not, why are they not chasing you for the others?

 

A bit more detail would be helpful.

 

Regards, Pam

[physicsgraduate]

Thanks Pam.

 

I am not sure that they are independent contracts, each year is probably a top up on the last i suspect. It was for the student loans company, does that help?

 

I thought failure to supply the documents within the speficied time was breaking the law and they then have to drop the debt? At least i am to understand that is the case when they fail to supply anything...

 

Anyway, if they no longer have the 1990 agreement on their system then that probably suggest to me that they won't be in a position to comply with s77/78 at any time in the future..

 

PG

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

But if each new agreement is a 'top up' of the previous one (where the balance from the earlier one gets transferred to the new one) then each previous agreement becomes settled as the next one is entered into.

 

If this is the case then there is no debt outstanding from the 1990 agreement itself - it is the balance left on the last agreement that is repayable.

 

It might be that the reference number on the demand refers to the initial 1990 contract because that was the start of the chain of agreements, but it's the sum still outstanding from the last of these agreements that they are demanding, isn't it?

 

If so., they have supplied a copy of the relevant agreement.

 

Failure to comply with a CCA request within the 12 working days means that the creditor is not entitled to enforce the agreement (but if they do supply the copy after this then they can enforce again).

 

Where a creditor is not permitted to enforce an agreement, it does not mean that the debt does not exist or that it is written off (unless the creditor decides to write it off). The agreement remains valid but the creditor cannot force you to pay.

 

If they still have not complied with their obligations under the CCA request after a further month then they commit an offence under the Act which could result in a fine or 6 months imprisonment (if only we could get the relevant enforcement authorities to actually perform their duties properly!!)

 

Regards, Pam

[Perseus]

Could you not attempt totake out an enforcement order against the authority? or are they litigation exempt?