GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......

[London1978]

No mention on track, in this one page basic letter. It really is just a date and saying it will take 10mins. Without this site any normal person would be lost at that stage, it just has NO info on there or what to expect. I only know it's for 'directions' because I called the court today. Many people must be getting these around now and be as miffed as I am.

 

Many thanks..I will take the draft order and propose it to the judge.

 

In an ideal world I could do with Lloyds settling about now(prior to court)...can I do or send anything to light a spark under them and make them pay up? Post them the draft order prior to the directions hearing maybe?

 

Surely when they do not appear at the directions hearing that is going to play in my favour...and if they have no intention of showing up...does this mean I could be due a settlement letter?

 

Again Many Thanks.

[GaryH]

In an ideal world I could do with Lloyds settling about now(prior to court)...can I do or send anything to light a spark under them and make them pay up? Post them the draft order prior to the directions hearing maybe?

Send something like this if you wish, although I sometimes wonder if SC&M even open their post, let alone take any notice of it!! But yes, it won't hurt. Especially if you send it by fax as well.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/40192-maryt-lloyds-trying-get.html?highlight=pre-trial+review#post424100

Change the references to "pre-trial review" to "directions hearing".

Surely when they do not appear at the directions hearing that is going to play in my favour...and if they have no intention of showing up...does this mean I could be due a settlement letter?

If they don't appear then you need to ask the judge to grant judgement to you there and then - which he probably will. You may wish to take with you a spreadsheet of settled claims (litigation section) to demonstrate that Lloyds are wasting everybodies time.

 

Thats of course assuming they haven't settled beforehand, which IMHO they are quite likely to.

 

Have you got a thread btw?

[rainbow005]

Am I being REALLY thick?

 

The OFT report we're being advised to send part of with our claims - this refers JUST to credit card accounts, right?

 

I'm about to put my claim in with regards to my personal current account and I don't understand how this particular OFT report is related to current accounts.

[GaryH]

It applies in principle to all default fees - as stated in the reports section 1 "overview".

[rainbow005]

Thank you Gary. I think my brain is melting this afternoon!

[Daz1972]

Gary H,

Can you tell me where to look for the T&C on the wayback machine for Lloyds what does the T&C come under?

 

Daz

[glassalan]

This is for Elsinore in particular;

my last post I asked if anyone could tell me what Disposal was as I had had a Notice of Disposal from the court, 10 minutes allocated etc, sounds like you have had the same

It is, as I suspected, a meeting prior to Directions being given.

The following day I recieved a letter from SC+M with settlement conditions attached ' without predudice '

 

Job Done,

Thanks

Alan.

[Pen]

Daz, the link is in post #188 of this thread.

[moc1982]

****- they've filed a last minute defence. The court date is on the way...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/84590-moc1982-lloyds-tsb.html#post890660

[Benny_Blanka]

***In light of recent events, it is now more important than ever that you prepare thoroughly for court and include everything you need in your bundles.***

 

It appears that some claimants are now getting a bit sloppy with regards to bundles and preparing for court. We've seen quite a few threads recently where the claimant hasn't bothered submitting anything becouse its a "waste of time".

 

Ultimately, that may well be true in most cases, but to not comply with a court order is a very dangerous game and you run the real risk of having your claim struck out. There have been 2 claims in the last week or so where this has been the case.

 

As we all know, its highly unlikely that your claim will get as far as court, but even so, you should still prepare exactly as you would if you knew it was going to - I.e. get a good, solid bundle in ON TIME, and make sure that you know your arguements. Particularly in relation to Lloyds service charge defence. Read this thread -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/81799-issues-raised-llloyds-bank.html

 

What to include in your bundle

 

Clearly this will depend to a certain extent upon which specific directions have been ordered, but, IN ADDITION to everything else which you would normally submit, you should include;

 

1) Your account T&C's. Preferably those from when the account was opened. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the website. This site contains Lloyds T&C's back to 1999 -

Internet Archive Wayback Machine

As well as account T&C's, you should also have a look for those applicable to cards, standing order and direct debit forms.

 

2) The full OFT report. No need to print out the whole thing, but you do need the front cover, section 1 "overview" and most importantly, section 4.21 "Disguised penalties". You should put this in INSTEAD of the OFT report summary from the Basic Bundle in the templates library.

 

Plus, the OFT report "Anayasis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2", (particulary relevant is section's 5.8 -

http://www.crw.gov.uk/resources/utccr%20guidance-part2.pdf

 

Also, the Scots Law commission report

 

 

3) The McNamara interview. The transcript is fine.

 

4) Any correspondance or documents published by Lloyds which refers to their charges as - "Penalties", "defaults", "imposed when you breach your agreement", etc. Check your old T&C's if you have them and include anything which suggests that the charges are imposed as a result of a breach of your account agreement.

 

I have a letter in which Martin Orton states that Lloyds' charges exist - "in order that we can recoup our costs". This was in response to a direct request to justify their charges, and no mention was made in the letter of them being any sort of "service charge". Print it off from here to include in your bundles -

 

Orton letter

 

Simularly, if anyone else finds anything useful such as that, or in their old T&C's, etc, please let me have a copy so I can distribute it for others. Obviously you should block out personal details, and also I am happy to pay any postage costs if necessary.

 

5) A detailed Witness Statement, which specifically includes arguements which tackle the service charge arguement and "cloaking". See the post below.

 

When you've submitted your bundle

 

In most cases they will pay around now, but if not, and if they don't submit documents, then on the day of the deadline for submissions (which will be stated on the directions order), you should inform the court of their non-compliance immediately.

 

Send the letter here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-directions-non-compliance-letters.html

 

Also, if a court date is imminent you should have a good read of the guidance notes.

 

Court guidance notes

Hello GaryH,

 

Your link below doesn't appear to be working. I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow. Is there anyway you can email me these T&Cs:

 

"1) Your account T&C's. Preferably those from when the account was opened. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the website. This site contains Lloyds T&C's back to 1999 -

Internet Archive Wayback Machine"

[debking]

Gary,

Can you tell me if all this information is suitable to use in a court bundle for a business claim?

Including the witness statement.

Many thanks for your tireless work!!

Deb.

[Benny_Blanka]

Hello everyone,

Somebaody help please... I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow and I haven't got any of my T&Cs for a current account... can somebody help by emailing me the various versions.... I would be grateful for any help?

 

Many Thanks

[flowerofsarum]

Hello GaryH,

 

Your link below doesn't appear to be working. I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow. Is there anyway you can email me these T&Cs:

 

I had the T&Cs for 2001 bookmarked, but on checking yesterday found the link didn't exist!! Thought Lloyds have obviously got wise and deleted their web archives. Tried again this afternoon and they are back on again. Phew!

[GaryH]

Gary,

Can you tell me if all this information is suitable to use in a court bundle for a business claim?

Including the witness statement.

Many thanks for your tireless work!!

Deb.

Yes - except remove all reference's to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations

Hello everyone,

Somebaody help please... I am frantically preparing my bundle for tomorrow and I haven't got any of my T&Cs for a current account... can somebody help by emailing me the various versions.... I would be grateful for any help?

 

Many Thanks

Join the queue!

 

Don't worry - get your bundle in without them. If it gets to within a couple of days of your court date and still no settlement then drop me a PM.

[GaryH]

I had the T&Cs for 2001 bookmarked, but on checking yesterday found the link didn't exist!! Thought Lloyds have obviously got wise and deleted their web archives. Tried again this afternoon and they are back on again. Phew!

 

Yes, it seems to be working again now - if a little slow! Might be getting to many hits!

 

Print them off now if I were you.

[Benny_Blanka]

Hello,

 

Thanks for your response. Please can you send me a link?

 

Many Thanks

[Benny_Blanka]

Yes, it seems to be working again now - if a little slow! Might be getting to many hits!

 

Print them off now if I were you.

Hello,

 

Thanks for your response. Please can you send me a link?

 

Many Thanks

[Brucey]

If we enclose a set of T&C's in our bundle from a date far after when the account was opened and far after the point from which we are claiming, does that matter?

e.g. Account opened 1996, T&C's enclosed from 2004

 

Will we be able to say that the fact the charges are penalties for breach of contract at that time (e.g. 2004) means they automatically were when we opened the account years previously (e.g. 1996)?

[flowerofsarum]

Hello,

 

Thanks for your response. Please can you send me a link?

 

Many Thanks

Internet Archive Wayback Machine You'll see all the months and years from November 1996 onwards, click on the month and year you opened your account and ... voila.

[tyshamitdeb]

If we enclose a set of T&C's in our bundle from a date far after when the account was opened and far after the point from which we are claiming, does that matter?

e.g. Account opened 1996, T&C's enclosed from 2004

 

Will we be able to say that the fact the charges are penalties for breach of contract at that time (e.g. 2004) means they automatically were when we opened the account years previously (e.g. 1996)?

 

 

 

Yes i would like to know that as i opened my account in 1997 and need to get t&c's from then?

[Johnsworld]

I think you will find that the Ts & Cs will be very different now to what they were then. The banks have tightened up the wording to avoid any misinterpretation so I would try and get hold of the old ones.

 

It depends how pushed you are. I had a trial date and to submit my bundle just as the Ts & Cs judgement happened. All I had was the latest copy so I put that in.

 

I've no idea whether I'll be allowed to but I figured that if I included them it would make Ts&Cs relevant to my case and I would argue that I should be allowed to introduce those Ts&Cs that were in effect if or when I get copies.

 

I just hope that common sense will prevail.

 

Probably no help but just my take on it. Obviously it would be better to have the correct ones.

Regards,

John.

[garyf2857]

i can't find any t&c's using the internet archive wayback machine, is it possible someone could send me some from around 2001?

 

thanks

[GaryH]

Sorry my friend, we're hardly getting any so I doubt you've got much chance!

Whats wrong with the wayback machine? It was fine yesterday.

 

Try asking the bank for them - 2001 shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't have thought.

[amber_ellie]

GaryH - I sent you a letter re charges dated back in 2001. Is it worth me passing this onto anyone else?

[GaryH]

Yes, actually - would you mind e-mailing it to me again? I've gone and bloomin well lost it somehow!!

 

I can then add it to post #1. I've also updated it with some other new stuff in the last couple of days you may have noticed.