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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!


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I am finally ready to issue N1 form to cambridge court to get unlawful charges from TSB going back to 1997. Is there a template for the particular of claims for a claim that goes beyond the 6 years. Do you need to mention the concealment act? or has someone got a particular of claims form that I could tweak to my own situation? Thanks Dan.

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icon1.gif Just finished a conversation with the Halifax. Spoke to a 'Customer Complaints Manager' who, although apologetic for this morning's cock-up, YET AGAIN gave me the 6 Year fob-off. I made my case that their obligations under the Data Protection Act are to provide ALL the data they hold about me and account for anything they cannot provide. I requested that a case number be assigned.

 

I am now going to deploy my 'Incomplete Disclosure' letter from the other day, containing the case number from today, PLUS the name of the manager that 'assisted' me. In doing this, I will be doing all I can I believe, to prevent these idiots fouling up again - and hopefully will also be tying my letter to this afternoon's conversation. I shall send a copy (clearly watermarked as such) to their Compliance department; in addition to the copy I am sending to Customer (Dysfunctional) Relations.

 

In addition to confirming in writing my agreement with HFX today and their commitment on the phone, the letter will also serve as as a 14 Day LBA for Data Protection Act non-compliance.

 

I shall simultaneously commence my complaint to the Information Commissioner because I have now had it with these fools. No more forbearance.

 

If anyone thinks I might be doing the wrong thing (or that I'm wrong about their obligations to provide me with all the data they hold about me) I'd love to hear any thoughts, suggestions and feedback. Thanks in advance!

 

Mac

 

(draft copy of my letter, which I'll change slightly to reflect today's conversation) here.

 

Will post actual copy up here later for review and, all being well, send it (Special Delivery of course Mr. Postie! wink.gif ) in the morning.

 

Cheers

Mac

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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That missive in full:

:rolleyes:

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998 - (Subject Access Request - Response To Incomplete Disclosure)

 

Current Account - Sort Code NN-NN-NN Account no. NNNNNNNN (X/NNNNNNN-N - closed)

Credit Card - Account Number NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN (plus predecessor accounts)

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Case Reference: NNNNN - Handling Manager - Xxx Xxxxxxx (NAME)

 

With reference to a telephone conversation held today with the above-named manager, I have today been provided statements from closure of the above-numbered current account on [date], back to [date]; which are duplicates of statements already sent to me on [date] (and which are still incomplete).

 

Curiously, I have also been provided with some credit card statements ranging from [date] to [date] only. As you are well aware, my current account dates from [date] back to [date] and I have had a credit card account with you since [date].

 

This was in response to my original request under s.7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 sent on 30/03/2007, accompanied by the appropriate fee, which was subsequently cashed by yourselves.

 

I would like to remind you that your obligation under s.7 is to supply all data held by your company irrespective of the age of such data. If you contend that you do not hold such data before a given time, please could you confirm this in writing by providing the relevant certificate(s) of destruction for the data I require, by the date set out below?

 

Please note that I am not prepared to accept any ex curia representations regarding company policy or any cited legislation, which you may provide in explanation of any incomplete delivery of the information I originally requested. As a Data Controller you are required to fulfil your obligations within 40 days of the receipt of such request; namely the provision of a complete copy of all the data you hold about me. The time period for compliance in this matter expired on [date]. As of the date of writing, you are 54 days out of compliance.

 

In addition to the statements, I also require copies of any additional data held about me by your company. However, as a gesture of goodwill to allow you sufficient time to comply, I shall extend this time period for a further 14 days, as agreed with Ms. Xxxxxxx.

 

If you fail to supply me with the remainder of the data that you hold prior to [date] for the current account, plus the complete set of credit card data within this period; together with any additional data you hold, I shall commence court action to enforce compliance immediately. There will be no further discretionary extensions, nor any further direct communication from myself.

 

In addition to the above action, I shall be making a complaint to the Information Commissioner regarding your organisation's lamentable performance in the exercise of its responsibilities under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I look forward to receiving your response.

 

 

Yours faithfully

etc.

(2 copies - one to Data Controller, one to Compliance Dept.)

Manuel_que.gif

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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Macboy

 

Your letter is similar to the one I have sent Amex. Although I have no charges I do have a CCJ from a while back then I found out that there is no CCA, only an application. I have asked them politely for ALL info but they've came back twice with the same old cr*p! Consequently, I've now sent my letter which demands everything you've requested. I have also demanded that they arrange to have my CCJ removed from the records as it was obtained illegally. I am waiting for the reply.

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joesoap

 

Thanks for the feedback - let us all know how you get on. The reason I devised this (and I can't take all the credit for it - it's reworked version of a letter by ZootScoot), was to have a something that tackled this situation where the banks keep driving people around in circles with the '6 year fob-off'; inviting them (a little more forcibly than the current templates) to state in writing why they they can't comply with their obligations.

 

It's experimental in that respect, but I'll keep everyone informed as to whether it has any effect.

 

Mac :D

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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Sent my final LBA (Response To Incomplete Disclosure) letter this morning (copies to Compliance Dept. and the Data Controller). As agreed with the Halifax Case Manager, this gives them a further 14 days to comply with the original DSAR sent on 31st March (!!!!).

 

They are 54 days out of compliance as i write this. This is beyond incompetence in my view - it is a deliberate attempt to stall my case. I shall prepare an N1 and Court bundle in the interim. I have also filed complaint about the above with the Information Commissioner's Office today.

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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I am finally ready to issue N1 form to cambridge court to get unlawful charges from TSB going back to 1997. Is there a template for the particular of claims for a claim that goes beyond the 6 years. Do you need to mention the concealment act? or has someone got a particular of claims form that I could tweak to my own situation? Thanks Dan.

 

 

Have a look here, Dan:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html?highlight=bong

Dummie's Guide to CAG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Me v BofS: Charges: £13,048.10 #2a/c Statements from 08/01/01 received. Charges:£5,156.39 Information Commissioner's Office informed June 12th who wrote to BoS, June 22nd for non-compliance. #1a/c: passed to BoS Senior Review Team. Discovered 2 further a/cs, and 3 Loan accounts. "Goodwill offer" of £7,424.23 06/07/07. Accepted (partial repayment). 20/07/07 Top-up payments of £2,558.10 & £1,154.00

£11,136.33 paid back thus far.

New claim issued: 9/07/2007 for 3rd account: £500+ PRESSING ON!

Don't forget - when you win - a donation to CAG would be welcome!

If anything I've said has remotely been of any assistance, then please tip my scales!

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You'd better believe it... If they stall long enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people who will just give up. Going to, ahem, borrow some of your letter, as it is really useful to my situation. I sent my SAR back at the start of May, so far I have had statements for 2001 to present (twice), but nothing for the years up to the end of 2000. I sent an LBA on 21st June, to which they have said they will give me an 'answer or update' by 19th July (which will put them at 78 days). In phone calls they've alternately said stuff before 98/99 has been destroyed, or stuff back to 1995 does exist but is archived. For timescales they have said my account will next be 'reviewed' on the 18th July (has anyone else encountered these 'review dates'?), and then that they have marked it 'urgent' but that 'urgent' doesn't indicate any particular response time...

 

I'm pondering over how long to give them. Obviously, want to be, and be seen to be, as reasonable to *them* as possible throughout the process, doesn't reflect well for the bank if they don't extend the same courtesy to *me*. They are already up to Day 63, so would it be unreasonable to request full compliance and the documents on my doormat by, say, Friday 13th?

 

Ooh, Friday 13th... Unlucky for some!

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b_the_jackal

If they are claiming that they have destroyed part of your data, have you considered asking them for evidence of this; such as Certificates Of Destruction? If they are saying some is still in Archiving, well make them bloody well retrieve it! ;)

 

I would be prepared to bet they still have everything. Make them substantiate their verbal claims.

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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Yes, going to work that into the letter. One thing I'm not sure on, I know with Barclays that they hold data for 12 years, but I don't know how they time that. As in, do they destroy stuff after 12 years, to the day, or just at the end of each year? So, they have said they hold stuff back to 1995, but would that go back to the start of Jan 1995, so 12 and a bit years? Anyhow, the worst of the charges were from 1998 to 2000 I think, but will push for a certificate of destruction for anything they claim they no longer have.

 

All this obstruction is very frustrating as you're stalled until they comply, kicking and screaming. But never mind, will all reflect badly on them further down the line...

 

A nice quote from the complaints procedure leaflet they sent me "It would be really good to know that if I wanted to complain, someone would be right there to listen and respond". Yes, would be good, a response that wasn't a fob-off would be nice too!

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I know with Barclays that they hold data for 12 years

Do you really know this for a fact, or is it more hearsay from the bank staff?

 

There may be better advice from my 'more learned friends', but I would say assume nothing and ask for everything! Do not go in assuming any prior knowledge about their archiving regime - it could damage your case and allow them to take advantage.

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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True, true.

 

The experience of other users on this site is that they have been able to obtain going back 12 years from Barclays. 'Facts' from Barclays themselves seem to change like the wind, so won't take what they say as gospel - in fact, seems to be a part of their stalling tactics as you get a lot of contradicory statements depending on who you speak to...

 

Will push for full details of the full history of my account, with certificates of destruction for everything they 'claim' to have destroyed.

 

Thanks!

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Exactly! And don't forget to elicit from them their exact reason for any limitation they are imposing. These are precisely the kind of tactics I'm encountering with the Halifax - it's all designed to put you off the scent.

 

Best

Mac

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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If only it was that easy - it would be like Tescos and sainsbury donating all their clubcard and nectar points that aren't used to charity. What isn't claimed is money in their pockets!!!!!!

Welcome Maggie...

 

 

 

Or any other method of destruction - yes that should be fine.

Good luck standing!!!!!!

 

Perseus

 

 

hello there where from east kent are you ...wll you have to deal with canterbury cc ? Interesting name...my hubby is Hellenic

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Do you really know this for a fact, or is it more hearsay from the bank staff?

 

There may be better advice from my 'more learned friends', but I would say assume nothing and ask for everything! Do not go in assuming any prior knowledge about their archiving regime - it could damage your case and allow them to take advantage.

 

I have had 12 years of statements from barclays, and their letter confirmed thats all they hold it for. Its prob longer but that is what they seem to be going by.

 

Tanz

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Cheers Tanz - was just making sure b_t_j wasn't getting suckered in by some corporate line ;)

  • 04/04/07 - £104 exit fee refund - Portman BS
  • Halifax Current a/c 20yr (closed) - in progress - all 20 years statements recovered!
  • Halifax Platinum Card 15 yr - Court Action Commenced - all 15 years statements recovered!
  • A&L Current a/c - You're next..

Write to your MP and

COMPLAIN about the ANTI-CONSUMER way in which the OFT Test Case is being handled!

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The Message Seems To Be Gettinf Through At Last! I Go An E-mail This Morning From The Ico And Minutes Shortly After That I Had A Telephone Call Phone The Halifax Asking Me Exactly What I Had Wanted Obviously Looked Different To What It Looked Like In The Lats 10 Or 12 Letters And Asking Them Almost Every Other Days On The Telephone. Lets Hope This E-mail Gets Along With This Post.

REPKY TO DATA PROTECTION COMPLAINT.doc

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Can anybody help me! I want to complete the N1 this weekend.

I do have Bongs, but as this was some time ago is there anything else that has become current that I should be aware of. Also, was there a case recently that lost with contracual interest?

I am looking for a POC for 6 years plus...... has anybody got an upto date version that I could look at please.......I have a case with the Halifax going back 10 years and most of the charges are in excess of 6 years.

 

Also, what is the situation with Contractial & or Compound Interest being claimed and can this be sucessfull with claims over 6 years. or is it best to stick with Stat 8%.

 

Thanks

ds

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Hi dsilverstein

I filed claim against the cooperative going back to 1996 with CCI, N1 filed waiting for a reply, should hear next week, also a few more on here, phatram, more than 6 years also photoman and celicaman, do you have your details of chages yet?..GC

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Hi GC

Thankyou for responding to my cry for help!!

 

I have already written the letters and now it is time to issue the POC.

 

Do you have or does anyone else have the POC details for 6+ years claims using CCL (Compound Contractual Interest) as this looks like being the best route and could it be PM to me.

 

Thankyou.

DS

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Can anybody help me! I want to complete the N1 this weekend.

 

I do have Bongs, but as this was some time ago is there anything else that has become current that I should be aware of. Also, was there a case recently that lost with contracual interest?

 

I am looking for a POC for 6 years plus...... has anybody got an upto date version that I could look at please.......I have a case with the Halifax going back 10 years and most of the charges are in excess of 6 years.

 

Also, what is the situation with Contractial & or Compound Interest being claimed and can this be sucessfull with claims over 6 years. or is it best to stick with Stat 8%.

 

Thanks

ds

 

THe case that was lost was where they were claiming CI with a claim of charges, the court case date was set, and at some point before, the bank offered full refund plus Stat 8% interest,

Instead of accepting that as full payment, the claimant proceeded to court for the CI part of the claim only, and lost on that basis, also tried appeal and that failed.

Problem was that to claim CI without the charges was never looking good, because the bank had settled & paid the charges plus stat, so in court the bank did not have to argue about the actual charges, they only had to argue against the CI.

Even if a full claim ever got to court, you would still have to argue for the CI if you won the charges part, thats why you put in the N1 the various bits about if the court does not agree with CI, then you claim stat s69.

 

You can still try CI, but you need to know your stuff, It is a game of chicken and the banks will do all they can to get you to drop it (including some dirty tactics) but you may get more back than with stat claim.

Just Remember, IF the bank offer full refund plus stat, Accept it and bow out, its still a win.

 

Celicaman

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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