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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!


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In light of the new views being taken on the limitation act 1980 I am thinking about going back after the NastyWest for some charges that I lost out on last time. Here's what happened last time, what do you reckon?

 

In Feb 07 after submitting their AQ i received a letter from Cobbetts with a cheque enlcosed. However this cheque was not for the full amount of my claim and they argued in their letter that I could not bring a claim more than 6 years after the date on which the action accrued, and as I issued my claim on 8 jan 07 i was only legally entitled to claim between the periods 8th jan 2001 and 8 Jan 2007.

 

Initially I disputed this fact and returned the chque to them and wrote back to them stating that my claim should be eligible for relief from the effects of the limitations act 1980 under sections 14a and 15b. I also pointed out that my litigation with them had actually begun when I submitted my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in October 2006 and my claim was based upon the info they had furnished me with subsequently.

 

However in response to this argument they just sent me back the same cheque again with a letter reiterating their case under the limitation act 1980.

 

At that time I was pretty skint and the money was too tempting so I caved in and banked their cheque.

 

Does anyone think if I were to put in a new claim for the initial early charges that weren't paid last time this would be viable? I did write to the court stating that the claim was settled by agreement!

 

Also I have since accrued new charges which I am going to try claiming.

 

Brownie24:confused:

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I would say claim the new charges with the old ones. That way you can still invoke the UTCCR and they will still have the burden of having to reveal their costs before they can even begin to argue about old charges being statute barred.

 

The fact that they told you that the old charges from your previous claim were statute barred means they were admitting that they owed you the money. A gesture of goodwill cannot be time barred..

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Hi Gez

 

So do you think I should go after the ones that they bullied me out of getting last time these were for the peroiod Oct 2000 to Jan 2001 and amounted to about £600 ish? I am just concerened that these were initially included in my previous claim which I did accept to a settlement of as the money was useful at the time although I kicked myself afterwards for backing down. I had also informed the court that this claim was settled, so I am not sure about how I could lawfully incorporate these amounts again into a new claim where I would also be claiming for new recent charges and charges pre this period when I get the info from a new SAR i will submit?

 

Brownie24:)

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Hi, I have statements going back to 1997 with Halifax - does anyone here claimed from Halifax on over 6 years. Any help would be appreciated, and OH BOY loads of charges in the earlier years!!!

Regards

DS

 

Hi DS,

I'm just piecing together my POCs against halifax for charges dating back to Dec 1993:eek: I'm going the whole hog and claiming for CCI, too, which should be fun. I'm both excited and peeing myself at the same time, but after my bout with natwest it's all part of the game.

My motto is if you don't ask you dont get:cool:

:DSUCCESSESS:D

NATWEST01&02 won over 4k

See how

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-successes/31683-muggins73-natwest.html

 

:)CURRENT CLAIMS:)

HALIFAX03

19-SEPT-07 APPLICATION TO HAVE STAY LIFTED

02-OCT-07 APPLICATION REFUSED

LLOYDS TSB04

10-MAY-07 LBA

 

ABBEY05

19-SEPT-07 LBA

 

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Hi DS,

I'm just piecing together my POCs against halifax for charges dating back to Dec 1993:eek: I'm going the whole hog and claiming for CCI, too, which should be fun. I'm both excited and peeing myself at the same time, but after my bout with NatWest it's all part of the game.

My motto is if you don't ask you dont get:cool:

 

Hi

I have just been sent statements going back to 1997 from CAPQUEST who have apparently bought the debt from Halifax. The good thing is we did not know that there were so many charges and with Interest at 8% we are up to £2.5K or thereabouts and the debt was arround £1K. Do you know the rate of interest on a cardcash account! as there is no mention on any of the statements.

 

1993, is even further back! what is CC1 ! anyway, I will now start a thread and perhaps you can give me your thread details so we can help each other. I have been successful on many other charges claims but none as yet over the 6 year period.

 

Keep in touch

Regards

DS

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Hi

I have just been sent statements going back to 1997 from CAPQUEST who have apparently bought the debt from Halifax. The good thing is we did not know that there were so many charges and with Interest at 8% we are up to £2.5K or thereabouts and the debt was arround £1K. Do you know the rate of interest on a cardcash account! as there is no mention on any of the statements.

 

1993, is even further back! what is CC1 ! anyway, I will now start a thread and perhaps you can give me your thread details so we can help each other. I have been successful on many other charges claims but none as yet over the 6 year period.

 

Keep in touch

Regards

DS

 

Responded in your thread, so I'll be seeing you there:)

:DSUCCESSESS:D

NATWEST01&02 won over 4k

See how

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-successes/31683-muggins73-natwest.html

 

:)CURRENT CLAIMS:)

HALIFAX03

19-SEPT-07 APPLICATION TO HAVE STAY LIFTED

02-OCT-07 APPLICATION REFUSED

LLOYDS TSB04

10-MAY-07 LBA

 

ABBEY05

19-SEPT-07 LBA

 

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You accepted as settlement for that particular claim. This will be a whole new claim, so yes go for it!

 

Hi Gez

 

So although these charges were incorporated into my old claim but were not paid I could reincorporate them in to my new claim in view of my new understanding of the Limitations Act?

 

Just want to get my head around this properly as I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where the judge could throw my case out!

 

Thanks

 

Brownie24

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I am considering doing a claim against Woolwich for an old account my Husband had back in September 1990. I have statements dating from Sept 1990 to March 1992. Total charges taken was £440.00. Does anyone now what rate of CI interest I can claim?

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i thought we just used the current bank rate for CI.

I have claims going back to 1990 as well and was using 18.3% HSBC current OD interest rate

1990 rates would be high as mortgage rates then were something like 15% hate or actually love to think what that would do to the amount claimed on CI

Could you clarify Zootscoot

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Hi All, great work done on this thread.

 

I am a bit concerned with the arguments regarding Section 32 (1)(b) of Limitation Act regarding concealment of the true cost of the charges. Would a competent barrister not argue that the opportunity existed for the Claimant to bring forth action regarding the true costs of the charges at various points in time when the charges were applied as opposed to 10 years later. As the Claimant would most likely be aware that charges were debited from the account. So why now would the Claimant contest or seek to verify the validity of the bank's business costs incurred as a result of its breaches 10 years later.

 

I am just wondering if the arguments presented in this thread are cogent enough to defeat the limitation clause. Can someone shed some light if I am missing some critical facts regarding this key point. I have a hearing date set in August over an application to strike out elements of bank charges prior to March 2001.

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sansho e-mail today requires a definitive response, notwithstanding Bank Fodder posting 7 April with reliance on Zootscott, incidentally, can't locate sansho posting on this thread?

 

"I am a bit concerned with the arguments regarding Section 32 (1)(b) of Limitation Act regarding concealment of the true cost of the charges. Would a competent barrister not argue that the opportunity existed for the Claimant to bring forth action regarding the true costs of the charges at various points in time when the charges were applied as opposed to 10 years later. As the Claimant would most likely be aware that charges were debited from the account. So why now would the Claimant contest or seek to verify the validity of the bank's business costs incurred as a result of its breaches 10 years later. I am just wondering if the arguments presented in this thread are cogent enough to defeat the limitation clause. Can someone shed some light if I am missing some critical facts regarding this key point. I have a hearing date set in August over an application to strike out elements of bank charges prior to March 2001

2".

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Hi All, great work done on this thread.

 

I am a bit concerned with the arguments regarding Section 32 (1)(b) of Limitation Act regarding concealment of the true cost of the charges. Would a competent barrister not argue that the opportunity existed for the Claimant to bring forth action regarding the true costs of the charges at various points in time when the charges were applied as opposed to 10 years later. As the Claimant would most likely be aware that charges were debited from the account. So why now would the Claimant contest or seek to verify the validity of the bank's business costs incurred as a result of its breaches 10 years later.

 

I am just wondering if the arguments presented in this thread are cogent enough to defeat the limitation clause. Can someone shed some light if I am missing some critical facts regarding this key point. I have a hearing date set in August over an application to strike out elements of bank charges prior to March 2001.

 

Fair point, but the fact of the matter is that until recently none of us knew that these charges were unfair, unreasonable and not to mention unlawful. We are meerly asking the judge to make the banks justify them.

:DSUCCESSESS:D

NATWEST01&02 won over 4k

See how

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-successes/31683-muggins73-natwest.html

 

:)CURRENT CLAIMS:)

HALIFAX03

19-SEPT-07 APPLICATION TO HAVE STAY LIFTED

02-OCT-07 APPLICATION REFUSED

LLOYDS TSB04

10-MAY-07 LBA

 

ABBEY05

19-SEPT-07 LBA

 

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Hi,

I sent off a 14 day letter to Natwest yesterday and have now discovered this news!! I only claimed for the last 6 years charges although I have statements showing charges back to 2000, so I have not claimed for approx £350.00. Is it too late to claim? Should I send a revised letter or another letter? Please advise.

 

Thanks

 

debs

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Hi All, great work done on this thread.

 

I am a bit concerned with the arguments regarding Section 32 (1)(b) of Limitation Act regarding concealment of the true cost of the charges. Would a competent barrister not argue that the opportunity existed for the Claimant to bring forth action regarding the true costs of the charges at various points in time when the charges were applied as opposed to 10 years later. As the Claimant would most likely be aware that charges were debited from the account. So why now would the Claimant contest or seek to verify the validity of the bank's business costs incurred as a result of its breaches 10 years later.

 

I am just wondering if the arguments presented in this thread are cogent enough to defeat the limitation clause. Can someone shed some light if I am missing some critical facts regarding this key point. I have a hearing date set in August over an application to strike out elements of bank charges prior to March 2001.

 

In short,

What they have been concealing is the true nature of the charges.

They have always presented them as just being a recouping of their own legitimate costs involved in dealing with such matters, whilst in fact they have actually been profiting unlawfully from them. This means they have in actual fact been penalties all along.

The fact also, that despite all the publicity, The OFT's report, the countless cases they are choosing to settle, and the fact that they employ legal counsel to advise in such matters..... yet still will not provide disclosure of how the charges are calculated, and still persist in presenting them as a recouping of legitimate expenses (yet everything else indicates otherwise) means that the concealment is ongoing, and so our claims of such are uncontestable.

Any rights to protection under the limitation act are voided by this concealment.

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Debs,

your claim amount is not 'set in stone' until you file in court. Maybe you should send them another letter, informing them of 'new information has come to light...' or similar, and add your earlier charges.

 

;)

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