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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!


BankFodder
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BANKFODDER

 

We laity require some direction, pace The Times, 27 April 'OFT to examine service & fees'. Presumably The Consumer Action Group, a principal consultee?

 

Have you considered, a electronic link ten-plate for your membership to similarly engage?

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Just received my statements from Lloyds and had originally requested statements for past 6 years from the date of my letter.

 

The letter they have sent with the statements states:

 

"Please find enclosed details of charges going back to the date you opened your account, or 1st September 2001, whichever date is most recent.If you do feel you need further statements, this will take longer to access our archived data. Please let me know by returning this letter in the attached pre-paid envelope and I will order them for you.

 

*Please send any remaining statements prior to 1st September 2001."

 

Looks like they are expecting people to claim further back than 6 years doesn't it. Anyway sounds too good to be true.....but will have to wait and see!!!

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Dear Bankfodder

 

Please!! Please!! Please!! I am really hoping you will be able to advise us.

 

We put in an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for six years at the end of March 2007. Thanks to you and this excellent site we have now found out we can go back further. Can you advise us how to go about making a further request for the remainder nine years??

 

Many thanks and regards

Deeks

 

If you used the SAR template from this site you have already asked for the info for the while account history not that last six years.

 

If you used somoene elses SAR and it stated six years, you copy it and change it to say from the opening of the account up until six years ago from when you submitted your SAR.

 

HTH

 

GLenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Just received my statements from Lloyds and had originally requested statements for past 6 years from the date of my letter.

 

The letter they have sent with the statements states:

 

"Please find enclosed details of charges going back to the date you opened your account, or 1st September 2001, whichever date is most recent.If you do feel you need further statements, this will take longer to access our archived data. Please let me know by returning this letter in the attached pre-paid envelope and I will order them for you.

 

*Please send any remaining statements prior to 1st September 2001."

 

Looks like they are expecting people to claim further back than 6 years doesn't it. Anyway sounds too good to be true.....but will have to wait and see!!!

 

YOu could use the templates from the library reminding them they have xx days left for complaince of your origianl SAR, if you used the template from the site then you have already asked for all your info and you are entitled to it. This letter they send allows them to argue you didnt want your data if you dont send it back sharply.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Did send the template letter from site but only requested six years info as thought that is all could claim for at time...lesson learnt.

 

The letter they sent with my INCOMPLETE statements (given as far back as Sept 01, so missing 6 months) stated if I wanted any further statements it would take longer as they are archived and "under the terms of the Data Protection Act, we are allowed up to 40 days to fulfill your request"

 

As I originally only asked for 6 years info I would like to tell them that I expect the rest of the missing data immediately as their 40 days is up or should I give them a further 14 days to send it all ??

 

Has anyone else done this??

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Hi lincsman,

I also received this 'fill in and return' form from lloyds.

I returned it, with a covering letter, telling them that I specifically requested ALL info for the account history, and their use of the microfiche arguement has been received as a deliberate attempt to frustrate and delay my legal right to that information.

I gave them 7 days on receipt. Received 8 days later!

Be firm.

 

Pers

If my advice has helped, please click on my scales. Thank you!

MBNA - CRA file to be cleared then finished!

__________________________________________

Abbey Personal - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

Capital One - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

GMAC - Sent DCA SAR 9th March 07 - confirmed not legally assigned.

Waiting for GMAC to provide breakdown of charges and CCA under s79

__________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court.

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In bankfodder's opening post on this thread he states:

 

"In the case of the Yorkshire and Clydesdale (and presumably the Northern bank as well, as they use the same CYNthesys system)banks we would suggest that even where claimants have accepted full and final settlements or have accepted compromise settlements that they should now go back for anything outstanding on the basis that the Whistleblower disclosures show that there has been concealment and that any full and final agreements are now vitiated by that concealment."

 

I wonder if this clear concealment also be used to vitiate a refusal to comply with a SAR?

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If one has written evidence from a bank that transactional data from yonks ago exists, but that it would take disproportionate effort for the bank to supply it, under your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), would it not be simpler just to ask a Court to order the bank to supply it under an injunction?

 

It would cost a lot more, £150 or so, but clearly it would be well worth it, if that data revealed charges from many years ago, with many years contractual interest accrued.

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If Bong is correct in "Taylors v Nationwide 3rd time" AND If we are now using the Whistleblower information (how solid can we assume that is) as the trigger for s32 based action, AND if the banks have steadfastly refused to justify their costs, and defend themselves in court, since the cases referred to (AND since with due diligence, deep pockets and large legal divisions, the banks COULD have found that their charges were a penalty under common law) does that not give a new degree of credence to our claims of pre 6 years?

 

Personally i don't see Whistleblower as the crux of claims for use in sec 32. read the case law thats been quoted and make your own mind up. Certainly its good for claims against Barclays but other banks will simply say it wasn't me guv.

 

There are three parts to sec 32, and they can all be bought into play.

 

Bong, myself and loads of others have reclaimed charges significantly older than 6 years already before Whistleblower.

 

With a well prepared claim and claimant it should be no bar.

 

Having said all that there are tactics for us to use to make sure we get what we want.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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lincsman - Many thanks for this. I received the same letter yesterday and never spotted the word OR between when you opened your account....OR 1st Sept. Been busy all day entering my data onto Vampire's SH and it looks like £20k+

 

Many thanks again - another letter, more delays, they sent in the info at 35days, so I guess rather than wait I will split the claim up into bits -;;))

If you think this post has been of help, please click on my SCALES on the left - thanks :-) :-x

 

Peter Anderson

Me Vs Morgan Stanley - WON £490

Me V's LTSB - Private & Bus Acc - £18.8k (since Oct1997)

inc: S.69 Interest (and growing daily) -;)

Please remember to DONATE when you have WON

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hi imgoingtoget allcharges back from hsbc, but the only info i have is the address i used to live at, i know this should'nt be a problem as i have done this with a couple of other banks. but is there a template for this?

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hi imgoingtoget allcharges back from hsbc, but the only info i have is the address i used to live at, i know this should'nt be a problem as i have done this with a couple of other banks. but is there a template for this?

 

 

I would go into your local branch and get them to give you the account numbers etc, HSBC did for me.

 

Tanz

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Hi,

I need to answer a question from Cobbetts, they have said: Witout prejudice to the non-admission set out in the foregoing paragraph, if and to the extent that the Claimant proves the allegation that the Defendant debited charges to the Claimants bank account, insofar as such charges were debited on a date or dates more than six years prior to the issue of the claim, any remedy in respect of the same, whether damages, restitution or otherwise, is barred by the operation of the Limitation Act 1980 and/or the doctrine of laches and the Defendant will apply to strike out this aspect of the claim and/or for summary judgement.

 

Can anyone tel me what they are asking for and what do I need to supply to court for proof.

Any help would be appreciated. Many Thanks

smiffie xxXxx

Smiffie

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Anyone claimed more than 6 years from Nationwide?skeggsy

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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I have had a read through this thread as I have an old Halifax account with charges but all are from 1999 and 2000 so more than 6 years ago.

 

As I understand it, claiming solely for charges over 6 years is unlikely to succeed as it hasn't been established in court that the charges are unlawful and they will go to court to argue this? But claiming for older charges along with those within 6 years may well be successful because they won't actually want to go to court in case the court decides they are penalties.

 

If this is the case, would people still recommend attempting to make a claim for charges that are all 6 years+? Whilst I don't mind attending court, I would want to be fairly sure of winning!

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hmm I can see how this would be more successfull but how would one guess the charges post 6 years? I guess they would have to disprove you, for example if you took your last 6 years as an average. I would like something more definate on this before I proceed with my next claim.

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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Can someone tell me how they get their threads read by other people? started a new new thread as the old one was an old case and so long dont think people will scroll to the end. really need some more advise onthe 6 year thing and cant seem to get any response. nationwide v skeggsy

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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Hi skeggs...

 

Copy and Paste the following in as a new reply in your old thread, asking them to have a look 'please'.

Anyone who is/has subscribed to your old thread will/should get notified of the new post in your old thread, see the link to your new one and click over...

Hope that helps.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/86498-skeggsy-nationwide-claim2.html

Pers

If my advice has helped, please click on my scales. Thank you!

MBNA - CRA file to be cleared then finished!

__________________________________________

Abbey Personal - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

Capital One - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court

__________________________________________

GMAC - Sent DCA SAR 9th March 07 - confirmed not legally assigned.

Waiting for GMAC to provide breakdown of charges and CCA under s79

__________________________________________

Alliance & Leicester - Final LBA 28/5/7 - then Court.

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Hello,

 

I've just read this post and my heart lifted,,,,,,would this apply to a bank account now closed? Also, I had paid hundreds and hundreds of pounds in costs on a regular basis to NatWest over ten years ago,,,would I be able to claim them back? That would actually change my life:) its so much money

 

 

So did mine? I was with Nat.West about ten years ago. I have no idea of the account number.........but I really would enjoy having a go at them. They made my life very difficult through just being inefficient.

 

How the heck do I start?

 

Nancy:eek:

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Hello,

 

I've just read this post and my heart lifted,,,,,,would this apply to a bank account now closed? Also, I had paid hundreds and hundreds of pounds in costs on a regular basis to NatWest over ten years ago,,,would I be able to claim them back? That would actually change my life:) its so much money

 

 

So did mine? I was with Nat.West about ten years ago. I have no idea of the account number.........but I really would enjoy having a go at them. They made my life very difficult through just being inefficient.

 

How the heck do I start?

 

Nancy:eek:

 

First of all read the Frequently asked questions here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

DO READ THE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS !!!!!!

As you go on, you’ll also find this very helpful:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

You’ll then need to start your own thread;

Go to here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/

 

Find the name of the Bank your action will be against.

Click on it (the name of the Bank in Bold Blue)

On that page, you will then find a label saying "Forum Tools" (just under the list of page numbers).

Click on it. It will show you some options.

Firstly, it's a good idea to subscribe to the Forum ,as you'll then recieve updates from people in similar situatioins against the same Bank. So click on Subscribe. It will ask how often you want updates (Personally I like Daily).

Once Subscibed to the Forum it will redirect you back.

Hit the same button and choose "Start new thread"

Give your Thread a title eg: yourforumname v whatever bank

(choose how often you want updating by email if anyone posts responses in your thread)

 

Then your up and running !:-)

 

Whilst your there, you might want to take some time to have a look at some of the threads by people taking action against your same Bank, very helpful. Remember, any threads you want to follow, you can either choose the thread tools button, and choose subscribe to thread, or simply whenever you make a post in a thread it will automatically subscribe you to that thread.

On the main page I've posted above, you'll also find lots of highlighted "stickies", which have lots of very informative stuff in them too.

Once your ready to start , you’ll need to do a schedule of charges to submit to the bank, try this one:

http://www.zen122856.zen.co.uk/CompoundSheet_v1.9.xls

 

Best regards and good luck

 

photoman

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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I've seen claims on here where people claimed some current "6 yrs" and previous period as well. But has anyone had a claim settled for the current 6 yrs than gone back and claimed for the earlier period? We settled with RBOS for the last 6 yrs, but wonder if there is any point looking into the earlier period. Thanks guys

I've looked through the RBOS forum, but couldn't spot any claims exactly like our situation.

Thanks Ali

Btw I am no expert just give notes based on what I have read on here and other forums/sites, plus my own experiences and investigations.

 

All ccj's now dropped off file, 2 yrs to go to clear file.

All old debts either settled or made unenforcable.

 

RBS MPP-Full offer at 8 wks from first complaint

RBS Overdraft loanguard-full offer at 8 wks from complaint

Citicard ppi-with FOS finally paid 8 months after offer through FOS!

Capital one x2- with FOS

Monument ppi-with FOS

aqua x2 ppi-partialled settled still pushing for the rest

Black horse ppi-offers made and accepted except for one early loan they say no info held-still pushing for payment

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