Koala Attack Vs Barclays

[koalaattack]

Hey Slick,

 

Tried that over the phone on Saturday, the response?

 

"Yeah, that's all on hold because of the OFT so I can't do anything."

 

"Oh right," I replied "so they don't know if they're lawful or not but you're still ok to stick the charges on my account?"

 

"Yes, because we don't think they're unlawful" she told me.

 

If I thought I would have managed to get anywhere or at least made a point I would have told her that I think that they are unlawful so surely I should be allowed to not have them placed on my account based on that logic but I would have only be wasting my breath!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[slick132]

Koala,

 

You're right re the waste of your breath.

 

It's a shame more judges haven't been bold enough to order individuals a freeze on their bank continuing to add charges pending resolution of OFT case.

 

You'll get old and new charges back eventually.

 

Slick

[koalaattack]

Lets hope so!

 

On a different note, I completely forgot that a mate of mine's girlfriend is a solicitor who is often defending people in Plymouth - I spoke to her about my case (very supportive) and the judges, her answers were interesting (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention names so lets just go with):

 

Judge Who-Likes-To-Go-Everywhere-On-Foot: "nice bloke but very hard"

 

Judge Who-Orbits-The-Earth: "top bloke, very fair, bit like a mad professor"

 

So it would seem that Leccy was right!

[koalaattack]

Hello again everyone, it's been a LONG time! I can't believe my last post in here was October, wow. I hope everyone is well!

 

Anyway, I'm assuming today's result can only be classed as good thing, especially from what I have been reading and hearing since it came out.

 

Am I right to say that it doesn't mean a new court case necessarily, but actually the OFT now have the legal remit to assess the charges? Also, from what was said on Fivelive just now (still going on as they've interupted the conversation to head over to the House of Commons) the OFT have been investigating the fairness of charges for sometime now just in case they got this ruling. The banks have got until the end of May to challenge the ruling.

They have asked the banks throughout the whole case to justify their charges and the banks have so far declined at every opportunity so the expert on Fivelive at the moment has said she thinks it's highly unlikely that they will find them fair and so will look to identify what is a fair charge which the banks won't like. The banks may well ask the courts to find a price that is fair as that would be quicker and mean that the OFT would have to stop any investigation and probably not highlight their actually costs.

All in all, is it right to say that stayed case will remain stayed and this will drag on, probably heading to the Lords? It's a small step but a positive one right?

[welshcakes]

Hi koala

 

I think that's a pretty fair summation of the current situation and I do believe the banks will continue to utilise every legal means to delay and obstruct a final ruling on what is lawfully a reasonable pricing list for charges.

 

Whilst many will now write to their banks suggesting a settlement can now be forthcoming, I suspect the banks will refuse this arguing that the full amount of claims cannot be paid out as we will have to wait to find out what the ruled price per charge should be - they will then deduct this from the final cheques sent out.

 

That being said, it may be worth trying to get the full amount now anyway, as customers can always point out that at this juncture, they are only asking for charges and not costs incurred but, should the bank persist, they will be forced to request costs of pursuance which, over such a long time, would outstrip any deduction (ie the final cheque wil end up bigger).

 

It's a long shot however when have CAG members ever been put off by scarey odds!

 

A good day for us all I think

[koalaattack]

Cheers Welshcakes - I might just send a letter then!

[slick132]

Hi Koala and Welshcakes,

 

Thats a fair summary Koala - we'll have to watch developments over the next few weeks.

 

Just my opinion but I doubt the bank will budge an inch at the mo. But, hey ho, if you can spare the paper...........

 

Let us know what they say.

[koalaattack]

Cheers Slick,

 

I think I'll leave it for the time being as I don't want to be seen to be pushing it.

 

Let them stall, it's all just added interest on my part isn't it?!

 

Cheers!

[carter56]

hi

thanks for putting all this in laymans terms when it gets a bit technical i soon get flusttered !! so the next deadline will be 22nd of may ? is that right.

thanks for all your help in the past and now it is much appreciated

linda x

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Again, a really long time since I last posted but then I guess that's what this has become really, a waiting game. I hope everyone is well and to those of you who've had some success recently, congratulations!

 

Just wanted to tell you all about something and ask some advice really.

 

The other week I had a call (one of those 'withheld' numbers that call and call) which, when I finally got fed up and answered, was my local branch asking me to come in as they could sort out my overdraft fees. I thought I should show willing as that can only stand me in good stead if and when this goes back to court so I arranged a meeting.

 

On the day of the meeting I was almost at the bank when my flip flop broke (!) so I dodged into a shop to grab a new pair which made me a massive 1 minute late for my appointment. The lady I was meeting called me to ask where I was! I was literally 1 minute late!

 

When I got there they took me over and she said, and I quote:

 

"Hey babe - oh well, you were nearly on time!"

 

I explained what happened and she said:

 

"No worries babe, nice shorts".

 

It would appear that I am "in there"!

 

Anyway, long story short it wasn't about sorting my overdraft fees at all and all it basically was, was a dressed up sales pitch. She tried to get me to change my joint account. I explained I wouldn't be touching the joint account thank you very much as it's a JOINT account and property of both me and my girlfriend and I don't make decisions for her.

 

"Oh right," she said "you're still together then are you?" At least she didn't call me 'babe' this time!

 

The next tactic was awesome. She looked at my account history and then said:

 

"You can have a credit card if you want. You've got the option for a Barclaycard because you're old one is closed"

 

I said I was ok thanks, it's closed for a reason (27% a year interest for a start) and that I never want another Barclaycard again. She then looked at my account again, turned back and looked me straight in the eyes and said:

 

"You should take the credit card and pay off your overdraft with it as you've had loads of charges and you'll be getting a letter soon closing your account because of it. That's what they do".

 

I laughed a little and reassured her again that I was good thanks. I told her the overdraft will be gone as soon as they pay me the money they owe me and that there was no way I wanted a Barclaycard despite the threat. One positive was that she agreed I should get the charges back at some point and admitted that the OFT investigation is why they only charge £8 a time now.

 

I then left, no better off than I was 20 minutes earlier but at least she'd not sold me anything to get her comission up. She did say "see you later babe" as I left which made me laugh, but ultimately it was a completely pointless sales pitch. Sorry, meeting!

 

Anyway, I just wondered whether there was any truth in what she threatened (bear in mind that I do have a lot of charges but I also pay most of the overdraft off every month with wages and they are making a lot of money off of me in the form of interest and OD charges) and, if as I suspect, there isn't can I complain and to whom?

 

It didn't bother me too much then but now I'm actually really angry. She basically tried to scare me into taking out a Barclaycard. This, coupled with the fact they sent me a letter saying they'd returned a payment and had to charge me £8,000 for it (it was actually £8.000 but it took me a few reads to confirm that and I have prefect eyesight), just made me very angry.

 

I'm savvy enough to understand their tactics but not everyone is - I can't imagine my Gran's reaction if she read the £8,000 charge letter for example, she'd probably have a heart attack - and I would imagine the bankers could get her comission up by scaring people into taking out new accounts or credit cards when they don't need to.

 

Sorry it's such a long post, I just wondered what I could do now.

 

Thanks a lot. Like I say, I hope everyone is well.

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[slick132]

Hi KA and nice to see you again.

 

I'd be interested to learn exactly HOW she thought you could pay off your OD using your shiny new BC. Can you even DO that with a BC ?

 

Their sales techniques for commission hiking are a bit obvious but I doubt it's even worth a complaint. Just be content with the 8% interest you are racking up monthly !

[koalaattack]

Cheers Slick (as always!),

 

She basically wanted me to take out a Barclaycard and do a balance transfer. I can do it with my Virgin card (highly recommended by the way) as they will transfer funds into your bank account and class it as a balance transfer so it stays as 0%. I assume that's what she wanted me to do with my Barclaycard.

 

Just out of interest, do you think there's a chance Barclays may call in my overdraft? Can they actually do that when I'm in dispute with them over the charges?

 

Cheers for the advice,

 

KA.

[slick132]

Hi KA,

 

I don't think Miss Barclays Babes had the most well-informed view on Barclays corporate strategy.

 

Are you still using the a/c or has it been dormant for a while. Sorry - no time just now to wade through pages 1 to 16........

[koalaattack]

Hey Slick,

 

Yes, it's very much active. It's my current account which has my wages going in every month, interest coming out, direct debits, standing orders, bank charges (!) the normal stuff.

 

To be honest, they make money from me and they see that I have the means to pay it off if I need to so I would imagine I'm good for them really.

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[slick132]

...........in which case they'd be daft to try and close the a/c and you'd have good cause to complain it is retaliatory. Are you within agreed o/d limits.

 

I think if they wanted to do this, they'd have done it by now.

[angel_1]

Koala

 

i would be so angry being called into the office for such a mad meeting, i would write and complain and tell them i want compensation for my time wasted and i will be reporting them to the ombudsman should they close my current account, as this will be deemed to be very bad service on their part

 

also does miss babe have the corporate authority to advise you that you will be getting your charges back -

 

perhaps the media may be interested in your story lol

 

hey mr babe llll soirry my humour but on a serious note, i dont think she was professional at all and most condescending towards you

 

good luck let us know what you do,,,,

 

have fun. will subscribe and check in ciao for now MAZ

[koalaattack]

Cheers yet again Slick - I think the big sticking point would be the fact that I do go over my limit regularly. It's the typical cycle of get charges, get paid but take a massive hit because of the charges, speak to the bank to try and sort something short term to lessen the problem/cut it short, get denied because I have charges, get more charges just before pay day and so it starts again. I guess that would be their argument, but as I say, they make a load of money from me and I am probably lowish risk because of my wages/expenses going in each month. We also have the joint account which is being run perfectly (my girlfriend is in charge of this!), so I guess they would be stupid to do anything!

 

Maz - thanks for your support. I think you're right about her being condescending but I think she'd try and argue that she was trying to be friendly. It wouldn't suprise me if she thought I was a student as that happens all of the time so I guess she was trying to come down to my age. I found that bit funny to be honest, it was the threat that if I didn't take out a Barclaycard and pay off my overdraft I would have my account closed. Like I say, I wasn't too worried by it but I can imagine some people may have been.

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Bit facetious I know but do you think, should someone get a claim through and win, Barclays could claim economic hardship given everything that is happening in the banking World at the moment?!

 

In all seriousness, is the current climate likely to affect our claims?

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[Bookworm]

Hi, KA.

 

I think you should write in and complain about Miss "Babe"'s behaviour and threaten the bank with reporting this disgraceful behaviour to the FOS. Ok, so you can have a laugh about it, but imagine how many less well-informed people will get suckered in and get pulled in deeper into debt because of her "advice".

 

My DD went into NatWest a couple of years ago to change from under 18 to over 18 accounts and got the same kind of assault on her, thankfully she had been well trained by her mother , but I still wrote to complain about the aggressive sales tactics and they did take it seriously enough.

 

It's a disgrace that anyone should be told to consolidate by taking a credit card and it seems to me her actions come under the CPUT Regs 2008:

 

Aggressive commercial practices

 

7.—(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—

(a) it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

(b) it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—

(a) its timing, location, nature or persistence;

(b) the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;

© the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;

(d) any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and

(e) any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.

(3) In this regulation—

(a) “coercion” includes the use of physical force; and

(b) “undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision.

Sounds familiar?

 

In fact, come to think of it, I think if you do decide to write to the bank, you should quote this part of the CPUT Regs and threaten to report them to the OFT. This kind of outrageous behaviour should be stamped out and of those of us who do know better don't act, who will?

 

As for your newest query, since we are reasonably sure (ok, hopeful) the judge is not being influenced by the government or the banks, no it shouldn't make any difference. All we can do is wait for Mr Smith to come back from his extended leave to hand his decision on the historic terms and for the OFT to complete their investigations on the banks (which we pretty much expect not to go down too well for the banks. ) and then onto the next stage. :-|

[koalaattack]

Cheers Bookworm. I was doing the washing up last night chatting to the cat about it (!) and I realised how much it had bothered me - the meeting took place on the Saturday of the bank holiday so it was almost a month ago - and yet I'm still thinking about it and talking to my very well informed cat about it all! I decided I would write them a letter then, you've just confirmed this with me though.

 

I also forgot to mention that I asked if I could opt out of the new buffer and charges set up that they have and whether she could process that for me at that time. She said no and that it had to be done in writing. I asked her to organise resending me the letter in case I couldn't find it and she said she couldn't and that she would give me a number to ring. She gave me the normal telephone banking number! I called them over something completely different and the bloke I spoke to was very helpful. He told me she was wrong to do what she did and what she said was wrong too - he also said that only branches can organise resending letters but he was able to opt me out of the new set up there and then and she would have been able to do it just as easily as he had on the day of the meeting. Yet more stuff to mention in my letter.

 

I need to find the name of the lady I saw but I will do that and write a letter. I may stick it up here and get some advice if that's ok?

 

With regards to the new question, it's all still looking good then?

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

Edited September 16, 2008 by koalaattack

[Bookworm]

Of course you can post it here, that's what we're here for. ;-)

 

Still looking good? Who knows? We know the banks are wrong, we know they have been bleeding us dry for years simply because they could, so common sense says justice must prevail... But who knows? :-|

 

Your cat makes a lot of sense, you can tell him that for me!

[angel_1]

Cheers Bookworm. I was doing the washing up last night chatting to the cat about it (!) and I realised how much it had bothered me - the meeting took place on the Saturday of the bank holiday so it was almost a month ago - and yet I'm still thinking about it and talking to my very well informed cat about it all! I decided I would write them a letter then, you've just confirmed this with me though.

 

 

Well relooking at your thread and its update you have actually and bookworm totally convinced me of my next action, sorry to hijack your thread just wanted to share with you what happened to me last friday

 

Went into lloyds branch to pay my credit card payment, the cashier was a little while checking out my account on screen, suddenly she got up and said, oh you are paying lots of interest and charges i will try to get us to save you money, without waiting for me to answer she was off, people behind me in the line looked at me, as the cashier had gone off to find someone with my credit card statement in her hand, it did look odd. I was feeling quite embarrrased as she darted from one section of the office to another then finally about nearly 5 mins came to me at the cashier till and gestured for me to follow her and that i was to go into an office and someone was waiting for me with my credit card statement on her desk, all the time others were staring at me, i felt like id been caught in a fraud act or something, so i said the the women in the office, "i really dont know why im here, no one asked me if it was convenient" with which she didnt even answer me picked up my statement and handed it to me and i said thank you and walked off,

 

i was on my way to the gym, but i was livid when i realised i was being set up for a hard sell of something.

 

clearly there was something on the screen that made the cashier do what she did

 

if this is one way of getting new sales accosting people, its not good guys,

 

so beware - however, im a reasonable person, had she communicated with me that if it was convenient for me at the moment they would like to talk to me to save me money on my account, i would have said of course i could come back after my gym session, but they just assumed and presumed to usher me in a office and get on with it, , No way,

 

So both kb and bookworm, i am going to complain to Lloyds and i wonder could i actually ask for them to fully investigate this and what was their intention of getting me into that room really about?

 

So i make a deal with you kb, you do your complaint and i will do mine, people like us really need to stand up and be counted its in our power to do something about this way of being treated. If i may i will try and use some of what bookworm has given you as really if i hadnt walked out because of my gym session im still off ill with depression who knows what they could have tried to get me to agree with!

 

Good luck and i agree with you, if it is still bothering you after like you say a month, then it clearly does not sit right with you, and like me im still thinking about it and it only happened a few days ago, but at the time i initially put it aside as bizzare but today i really feel like my gut is telling me to do something about it, and i am.

 

ciao for now keep happy - laters maz

Edited September 16, 2008 by maz1964

[koalaattack]

Maz, that's ridiculous and I can only imagine it's very, very wrong. I will take up your offer - in fact, here's my letter!

 

Sorry it's so long, any alterations will be gratefully received, thanks!

 

"Dear Sir,

 

RE: Meeting with Barclays Personal Account Manager

 

I am writing to you to inform you of a meeting I had with xxxxxxxxxx (Personal Account Manager, Barclays Bank xxxxxxxxxxxxx) at xxxxx on Saturday xxxxxxx 2008. I appreciate that I am sending this letter almost a month after the meeting, but this just serves to prove how angry this meeting made me. I have thought about the meeting everyday since and finally decided to write this letter after having spoken to a number of people about the issues raised.

 

I was telephoned by xxxxxxx during the week previous to the meeting and asked whether I would like to come into the branch and discuss overdraft charges. I currently have a claim outstanding against Barclays Bank to reclaim my overdraft charges which has been put on hold pending the Office of Fair Trading investigation. When xxxxxxx called me and invited me in I naturally assumed that it was to discuss this case and, keen to sort an amicable solution to the claim (as per the instructions of the Judge presiding over the case), I agreed to the meeting.

 

On the day, xxxxxxxxxxx, I arrived at the bank at xxxxxx only to find xxxxxxx had telephoned me to see where I was, something that I found a little unusual given that I was only one minute late. As I approached the desk, xxxxxxxx offered me a chair whilst saying:

 

“Oh well, you were nearly on time babe,”

 

I have to say, I found this more than a little unprofessional. When I explained why I was late, she replied saying:

 

“Never mind babe, you’re here now”.

 

Again, this struck me as unprofessional but I took it as a sign of friendliness and thought nothing more of it. Unfortunately, I was referred to as ‘babe’ the whole way through the meeting and I have to say that I began to find it very uncomfortable towards the end.

 

After about two minutes of chatting about my account, it became apparent to me that this meeting was nothing more than a sales pitch. xxxxxxxxx was desperate for me to change my account to one that would cost me more money, no doubt fuelled by the promise of commission. Further to this, she pressed me to “upgrade” my joint account which, as I explained on a number of occasions, is by its very nature a joint account held by me and my girlfriend. I will not do anything to this account (save for paying in money) without talking it through with my girlfriend first – I think you’ll agree that this is best practice. Not only did xxxxxxxx encourage me to “upgrade” our joint account, she also tried to get me to increase our overdraft and use it to pay off my personal overdraft. When I once again explained that it is a joint account and therefore not for me to make decisions on alone, xxxxxxxx said to me:

 

“Oh, so you’re still with your girlfriend then yeah?”

 

Not only did I find this question completely irrelevant and unprofessional, I was amazed at how long it took for my message about how our joint account operates to sink in, especially as I was dealing with someone who is apparently an expert in personal banking. Up until this point I was a little disappointed with the direction that xxxxxxxx was taking the meeting, however I certainly wasn’t shocked or surprised especially given the way I was originally signed up to my Additions account some years ago (for the record, I was never asked about signing up I just received an information pack through my door letting me know that I had a new type of account).

 

It was her next sales pitch that left me angry, shocked and questioning whether I had made the right decision.

 

xxxxxxxxxx pointed out that I am eligible for a Barclay Card. I told her that this was not a route that I wanted to go down. I was given a Barclay Card some 12 years earlier when I started university and it ended up causing me no end of grief and cost me a lot of money. I recently paid that card off and do not wish to take out another one. I explained this to xxxxxxxxx and she eventually looked me straight in the eyes and said:

 

“Either you take out this Barclay Card and pay off your overdraft or Barclays will close your account”.

 

I was stunned by this. I can honestly say that when I agreed to the meeting the last thing I expected was to be sitting, chatting to a professional personal banker who was threatening to close my account if I didn’t take out a Barclay Card. If there was ever a classic case of aggressive commercial behaviour then I think you would have to agree that this would be it. I can only assume that xxxxxxxxx made this statement as a reflection of her personal beliefs as I cannot imagine Barclays Bank would promote such an attitude, especially when you consider the level of bad press you received after the BBC’s Whistle Blower programme and not least when you consider Section 7 of the CPUT Regulations 2008:

 

“Aggressive commercial practices

7.—(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—

(a) it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

(b) it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—

(a) its timing, location, nature or persistence;

(b) the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;

© the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;

(d) any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and

(e) any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.

(3) In this regulation—

(a) “coercion” includes the use of physical force; and

(b) “undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision.”

 

As soon as she realised that this tactic would not work one me, and that she was not going to be able to sell me anything, xxxxxxxxxx lost all interest in the meeting and it was swiftly drawn to a close. I left, still amazed by her comment about my account and the Barclay Card application.

 

It has taken me some time to decide to write this letter but it’s the fact that I have not stopped thinking about this since the meeting that finally persuaded me that I had to let you know about what happened. I can laugh off being referred to as ‘babe’ for the whole meeting however unprofessional it is. I can even cope with a poorly disguised sales pitch and having to repeat myself about the joint account. What I am absolutely appalled at is being threatened into taking out a Barclay Card. I am lucky as I am a strong person and I am relatively savvy when it comes to banking matters, what worries me is how many people would have ended up bowing to the pressure and would have taken out the card, further spiralling themselves into debt.

 

I trust you can see that this is highly inappropriate behaviour and that something needs to be done to ensure that it does not happen again.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Like I say, any changes would be great!

 

Thanks,

 

KA.

[angel_1]

Well KA ,,,,you have excelled yourself nicely, and if i was the complaint manager looking at that letter i would be horrified but like all know Banks are in business to make money. Plus employees do have pressure to perform and get sales otherwise they dont earn their bonus. However, it needs to be reported, I would add maybe if others agree, about some kind of compensation for the time you spent at the meeting as your time was totally wasted.

 

Off to do my letter, you have given me some pointers may i pinch pls

 

laters for now MAZ

[koalaattack]

Cheers Maz, pinch away!