Koala Attack Vs Barclays

[koalaattack]

Cheers Jen - thanks for your help.

 

I spoke to the court today and they told me that as my case was started before the OFT ruling it would be going ahead as planned. They told me that the case is still in the system and that they are expecting both myself and Barclays there. Paul replied to my email to tell me Barclays would be represented on 6th so I guess I need to put everything together. I am assuming that Barclays will apply for a stay and that they judge will probably go with them, but you never know.

 

As this is a directions hearing, they haven't asked for a bundle but I am going to put stuff together. So far this is what I am going for...

 

1) statements

2) POC

3) SOC

4) all correspondence - including emails and original offer

5) draft directions

6) proof of posting

7) other evidence - terms and conditions from May 96 but what else?

 

...the evidence is the bit that I need help with, what am I going to use? Also, I really need to understand everything 100% so if someone could give me a fools guide as to what to know about the claim and CI then that would be great, thanks!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[j.barton1]

Hi, Thats looks fine for directions. If you find the whistleblower report and the oft stuff thet'll be good too. as long as you can argue the unlawfullness then you'll be fine but to be honest you might not have to say a word.

Jenxx

[pjdavies2000]

The interesting thing with this KA is that yours isn't simply a case of right and wrong, it is a case of what should be returned and what shouldn't.

 

In light of the recent OFT rubbish, I think you could have a strong arguement to dismiss any notion of a stay, as you are not simply asking for something to be returned, but asking for it to be returned in a manner that will replace at a cost to the bank, what was once yours.

 

So, for instance, if the OFT won, then most cases would just be awarded, but yours might not as it isn't as simple. This is a pretty impressive tool for use in court. The Barclays lawyer will come with one sentence in mind - we ask for a stay pending the outcome of the test case.

 

You have the added weopon of rebuking this by saying your case is no longer a matter of pure lawful and unlawful, but one of what is a fair return of money and what isn't. You think it is, Barclays assume it isn't. In this, the outcome of the OFT case would not clarify your case 100%, so the issuing of aa Stay would simply be a stalling tactic on the part of the bank, and therefor your case should be heard as has been arranged with the court for some time now.

 

Does any of this seem to make sense to anyone else, or is it just my over eager nature and hopeful eyes!

 

Peter

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Jen - earlier in the thread (post number 65 here to be exact!http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/76517-koala-attack-barclays-4.html) I produced a transcript of the Whistleblower programme, do you think this will be ok to use or is there a more official document about? Also, and I'm sorry to ask more questions, is there something from the OFT either stating that it is unlawful to make a profit from penalty charges (and therefore I would like to see a breakdown of what it actually costs Barclays) or stating that this is what they are going to investigate? I'm assuming this is what you mean by the OFT stuff? If not, what were you refering to?! Sorry!

 

Peter - I would love to be able to say I completely understood everything well enough to argue as well as you just have, but the truth is, I don't and I would get myself caught up and would say something completely wrong if I tried. I also saw this morning that the bloke who claimed damages and knock on costs lost in court yesterday (he'd had his charges refunded but he lost to extra costs claim) so I would imagine I may have the same out come. I am going to study Haydn's thread and see exactly what he argued and then what calculation he used when it came to the compromise the judge asked for. I will then prepare this and take it with me. Thanks though, it's a shame I'm not as on the ball as you!

 

I also saw that two banks have announced how much they have paid back. Lloyds was one and they had paid back £36m - surely this is an arguement that the banks have no defence? No one would pay out £36m if they thought there was a way around it? Would this be something to add as evidence?

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[j.barton1]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/financial_products/oft842a.pdf

(OFT Summary)

 

The whistleblower stuff looks fine, If you look at this...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/97447-court-bundles-dummies.html?highlight=oft+summary+2006

 

It helped me no end.

Jenny xx

[dar£n]

I produced a transcript of the Whistleblower programme, do you think this will be ok to use or is there a more official document about?

 

i am at work at the mo but I have saved the press release from BBC saved on my main comp. I will post it later so you can compare with what you already have,

[koalaattack]

Dar£n - thank you, that would be great. I will stick my version in for now and then check tomorrow and see if the one you have is better.

 

Jen - I don't know what to say, thank you. Does it matter that a lot of that stuff refers to HSBC? I would have thought the same evidence works against all banks but I guess it's best to check.

 

I have the terms and conditions from May 1996 (my account was opened in June 96 I think - def 96 but not sure if it was June or July) so I am assuming that the conditions don't usually change from month to month. Am I right and what is it I need to highlight? Saintly, I know you know about this so if you're there..!

 

Also, sorry for more questions, but as an official court bundle hasn't been requested will I need to treat this as one and number all of the pages. I'm basically getting as much evidence to drop off to the court before the hearing (inc draft directions) so that I get in first. I also think that it'll look a lot better to the judge if I am prepared and Barclays do their usual and don't even bring all of the case notes, if at all.

 

Thanks a lot for all of your help, this place is great!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

 

PS On a completely different note, I had some great news today. My mum was recently diagnosed with cancer - she had the op to remove the tumour today and has started to come around already. The doctors are really positive and said that it was encapsulated and everything else looked absolutely fine. It seems like she's going to be ok which is great. I haven't been bothered with this for a while to be honest, and with OFT events last week I just assumed I wouldn't be getting anything. At the time I figured it was only money and there are more important things (which there are I know!) but now I am going to give this 100% again. I'm going to nail all of this evidence tonight and get it to the court tomorrow ready for Monday - and it's mostly thanks to Harvest and the rest of you helping me out, so thank you.

 

PPS Yellow highlighter doesn't photocopy. Bugger.

[dar£n]

BBC NEWS | Business | The true cost of bouncing a cheque?

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Mis-selling is 'rife' at Barclays

 

i used to have the link to the actual program but cant find it, i'll keep looking

[welshcakes]

Hey koala

 

Fantastic news about mum, I'm so happy for you and your family

[koalaattack]

Cheers Welshcakes - I haven't spoken to her but she's allowed to use a mobile on her ward so I'll call later (I'm not allowed to see her as I have a cold!)

 

Dar£n - thanks for this, no worries about the link, I have the link to the youtube clip within my transcript so I will use them all (I assume youtube will be ok given that it is exactly as it was on tv?)

 

I mentioned this earlier, and on the Lit Team: Good or Evil? thread, but I have since found this article:

 

Bank charge refunds may have hit £1bn | | Guardian Unlimited Business

 

Surely, and may be this is a bit simplistic of me not being a big shot business man and all (mind you, we did cover goodwill/profit/ethics etc as part of my business A level and in my degree!), no business, no matter how nice and ethical they are, would pay out £1bn if they could produce evidence to show that their taking the money in the first place was legitimate? Or am I wrong?! I can't see how I am, but you never know.

 

Now, assuming I am not wrong, can this be used as evidence?

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[j.barton1]

Hi KA, sorry about your mum, glad she's doing okay. My little boy had a cancerous tumor removed so i know how hard it is.

You seem to be on top of the bundle now, once its numbered and organised thats the worst bit, we bought a photocopier/printer to do all ours...with 3 on the go it worked out cheaper..lol

PS anything in our favour you could put as misc in your bundle.

 

Jenny xx

[koalaattack]

Cheers Jenny,

 

Just sticking it all together at the moment. The thing is, I haven't been asked for a bundle so I'm not looking at this to be a bundle - I'm just entering this as additional evidence to be considered with my case. I'm not going to file it in any official way like a bundle and will only be handing it in this afternoon ready for Monday. I was hoping that this would show that I have researched my case and that this isn't some fly by the night, get quick rich idea I have had. I would also hope that it would show the judge who was taking the hearing more seriously out of the two of us as I'm guessing Barclays will have very little with them.

 

This is obviously form the basis of a bundle should I need it but I would also like to be able to add to it with other info before my final hearing should I get one.

 

I'm just about to write something to explain the T&Cs I am including and would like to know the exact act that states that it is unlawful for banks to make money from charges - can anyone help please?

 

Also, I have a standard defence from Barclays - which section am I looking to quote that implies that by going over my limit I have broken my T&Cs? I've had a read through and don't understand a lot of it I'm afriad.

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[koalaattack]

HELP!!!!!!

 

Sorry to be a pain but has anyone got a link to the latest draft directions please? I'm just finishing off my extra evidence so I can drop it off later and I can't find the draft directions anywhere!

 

Please help!

 

Thanks,

 

KA

[saintly_1]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html is this what you want ?

[koalaattack]

Cheers Saintly, I think it might be. What I was actually after was something that I think I saw on here as a template that basically said that I would respectfully ask the judge to request a breakdown of charges from Barclays Bank so that it is possible to see the true cost of these charges.

 

Is that about anywhere or have I just made it up?

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Panic over, I've sorted everything I need now so am just going to bind it all ond take it down to the court - thanks for all of the advice!

 

I have Judge Walker taking care of my case - anyone else had any dealings in Plymouth Combined Court with this Judge?

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[koalaattack]

I handed my documents in at five to four and the lady was very pleasantly suprised and very helpful - she basically said that the judge's hands may well be tied despite what he feels on the situation.

 

I didn't put on page numbers as it wasn't a bundle and she was fine with this - she also said I can take it home and add in anymore information that I want for a later trial.

 

Have a great weekend - see you after the hearing.

 

Cheers,

 

KA.

[bigem27]

HI KA & everyone,

Ok flood waters receeded and got electric and even water now. Finally heard from the court re my postponed preliminary hearing 24th July (Closed courts due to flooding.)

Well I cant believe it. Judge has ordered another stay pending the outcome of the oft v the banks case (the third stay!!!!!!)

What has this bloke got against me (barclays shareholder perhaps)

I will of course object but this usually takes a month to hear anything back from them....this is never gona happen is it?

 

Does anyone have anything I can put in my letter that doesn't sound as nasty as I feel that will in some way get thru to this judge?

I have had enough as much with the courts as the banks....they're all against me!

Bigem

[koalaattack]

Good news about the water and stuff bigem; rubbish about the court but unfortunately it's the way it is going. When I handed in my stuff on Friday the lady at the court said they may receive directions instructing judges to stay all hearings - where would these instructions come from?

 

Also, I have been researching UTCCR 1999 and was wondering whether anyone could point me towards somewhere that would explain exactly where it says about the unfair charges? I'm pretty much prepared but I want to know exactly where and what the UTCCR says.

 

Cheers!

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

Well, guess who just got back from court with a cheque from Barclays for £6,500?!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...nope, not me. Barclays applied for a stay, judge said he had no choice but to apply it and said that he thinks there may be some idea in February - he said I could apply for it to be lifted in March if I wanted. As we left I thanked the Barclays bloke who apologised and said he doesn't understand why we had to turn up to hear that (wasting me time aparently! The bloody cheek!). Anyway, I said I'll see you again some time and he just laughed.

 

So then, February it is...

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[saintly_1]

Which court KA ?

[koalaattack]

Hi Saintly - it was Plymouth Combined Court with Judge Waker. Nice bloke who was quite apologetic, so was the Barclays bloke who's name I didn't get.

 

When I asked whether there was remit for charges to be stayed too the Judge said "well, may be that should be part of your case"? Didn't really answer my question. I presented the Barclays bloke with an objection to stay letter, he said fine. I gave it all to the Judge on Friday (along with a three inch think document of evidence to be considered), it wasn't!

 

I know the OFT are doing a good thing but their timing could have been better for me!

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[koalaattack]

Hi guys,

 

What happens now? Will I have to wait until the OFT get something sorted and will I be contacted by the courts to say my case has been reopened or is it up to me to chase?

 

Cheers,

 

KA

[tezl]

Hi Saintly - it was Plymouth Combined Court with Judge Waker. Nice bloke who was quite apologetic, so was the Barclays bloke who's name I didn't get.

 

When I asked whether there was remit for charges to be stayed too the Judge said "well, may be that should be part of your case"? Didn't really answer my question. I presented the Barclays bloke with an objection to stay letter, he said fine. I gave it all to the Judge on Friday (along with a three inch think document of evidence to be considered), it wasn't!

 

I know the OFT are doing a good thing but their timing could have been better for me!

 

Cheers,

bit iffy to me ,think everone new something happening at years end,but they have done something now,wonder if banks agreed, to stop massive increase in claim pay outs.we will see if its a good thing,everthing done now has been in banks favour.tez

[koalaattack]

Yep, I thought about this more and more last night and I got more and more angry with myself for not arguing more. I know it would be a fruitless exercise but I would have felt better...

 

UTCCR 1999 came out 8 years ago. Barclays take pride in telling us they're one of the 8 biggest high street banks so therefore I would say it is logical that they would have put together a full breakdown of their charges over the years to comply with this act. Also, Barclays have been aware of my intention to take them to court since 25th April 2007, that's nearly 4 months - surely they could have put together documentation to fully disclose their charging structure? Or, may be they're just using the system and stalling - in the mean time, charging customers yet more unlawful charges and making interest in the process...

 

Vent over!